Bill Klaproth (host): This is an AAOMS On the Go podcast. I'm Bill Klaproth. And with me is Dr. David Johnson. He is the AAOMS immediate past president. And we also have Dr. Deepak Krishnan, Associate Professor and the Division Chief at the University of Cincinnati, as we talk about the importance of volunteers to the health of AAOMS and the specialty.

Dr. Johnson and Dr. Krishnan, thank you both for your time. I appreciate it. David let me start with you. So why is it important for members to volunteer?

James David Johnson, Jr., DDS: Bill, during my president year, for AAOMS I adopted the theme of volunteerism to showcase the contributions of AAOMS volunteers. We're so fortunate to practice this great specialty. And by volunteering, we advance the important AAOMS mission of assuring patient access to safe and effective OMS care.

Victor Frankl wrote a book that was important to me in my youth, and it's called Man's Quest for Meaning, and it emphasized the importance of finding purpose and meaning in life and giving back to the specialty through volunteerism allows each of us to have the opportunity to positively affect the lives of oral maxillofacial surgeons and oral maxillofacial surgical patients.

Host: That's a great book and interesting that you mentioned that. So giving back obviously gives you meaning as well. What are other reasons then that you give back, or give time to your specialty? Deepak, explain that to us.

Deepak G. Krishnan, DDS, FACS: Volunteerism means different things to different people, and oftentimes it is something that's important to just all of us, whether you're a volunteer or somebody else does it for you. Regardless, when you have a large national organization of a subspecialty, a super specialty, it's better that we rule ourselves than somebody else tells us what to do. So it's best that we develop leaders from within. We develop volunteer leaders. We've develop committee people, we develop staff liaisons. We develop liaisons to other specialties, and that way our spread of the positive message is much more a narrative that we control as opposed to somebody else throwing it on us, you know? So it's important that we actually have the ability to be a voice of our profession, our generation, whatever you want to take control of becomes easier if you are a volunteer from the front. And the message across becomes a little easier to impart to the masses, if you would, and others that want to hear our voices.

Host: Right, for sure. And David, then what reason would you give someone to volunteer at AAOMS?

James David Johnson, Jr., DDS: Well, building valuable relationships is one of the best reasons I could give. Some of my best friends and mentors have come through my volunteerism with this organization. And as an example, I have followed the career of my dear friend, Dr. Deepak Krishnan, from its earliest stages. Deepak is the 2022-2023 AAOMS Committee Person of the Year whose work as Chair of the Committee on Anesthesia has really been phenomenal.

I've learned something new every time I've had an interaction with Deepak, and he's so much fun to be with and he's just one example.

Deepak G. Krishnan, DDS, FACS: Yeah, so the relationship goes both ways. So I remember looking up to Dr. Johnson. My first recollection of meeting him was when I was a trainee surgeon. And we were all at A Day On the Hill in Washington, DC. I just remember how he was so warm and approachable, and you see these people who you know are in the higher eschalon of AAOMS and you think that they're in some ivory tower somewhere, quite the opposite, right?

So they are the most approachable people. Dr. Johnson being one of the biggest examples of that and talk about building relationships and fostering those. From the time I was a second or third year resident, Dr. Johnson's been my friend. The accessibility, all it takes is a text to reach them.

And most AAOMS leaders are just like that. That's the culture. That's the approach and that's the leadership. Approachability is the center of their volunteerism.

Host: Well, I can tell you we started this interview. Usually I call doctors by doctor, but Dr. Johnson said, please don't call me Dr. Johnson. Call me David. So he obviously you are very approachable for sure, and humble and, uh, that shows through. And that's why I'm calling you David and Deepak because both of you are very humble and I, and approachable, and, uh, you're embodying what Deepak just said, so, uh, thank you for that. So, David, this is really exciting and some people are going, are listening to this now, going, you know, I, I should become a part of this specialty. I should volunteer my time. How can someone volunteer for a committee at AAOMS?

James David Johnson, Jr., DDS: It's really very straightforward. There are forms that are available on aaoms.org, you can follow the tracks to that. And, in that way you can document your desire to participate and your areas of interest. I would also recommend that you can call AAOMS headquarters and speak with AAOMS staff. They're very helpful and they can give great advise in your various areas of interest. There are more than 20 committees within AAOMS in which you can participate. And there are other ways to volunteer as well. Advocacy, you can participate in the Day On The Hill. Uh, you can take part in the grassroot campaigns in advocacy such as the AAOMS Action Network. There's an app for that.

You can become an OBEAM facilitator. Deepak might wish to speak to that, but our Office-Based Emergency Airway Management Simulation Program has a great need for facilitators and it's a wonderful way to contribute back to our specialty. You can, uh, become a JOMS reviewer, a Journal of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery. Especially if you have a, an interest in education and publication as Deepak does. That is a, a good avenue or outlet for your talents, and you can be a volunteer in your OMS state societies. That's really important, oftentimes where the rubber meets the road is at the state level.

Host: Yeah. Deepak, can we get your thought on that?

Deepak G. Krishnan, DDS, FACS: I think, you know, I mean, people think that national committees are so far away from them and that it's so unsustainable to keep that kind of a relationship with busy practices. Quite the contrary. You can always, you know, this grassroots advocacy that Dr. Johnson spoke about is, it's very important.

Bring your local congressmen, and states people into your office. Explain to them what the specialty does. Explain to them how unique we are. You don't need an official title to do things like that within AAOMS and help them with that. Secondarily, what he mentioned about the Office-Based Emergency Airway Management is a simulation module that we have put together from the Committee on Anesthesia, taking it on the road to train 6,500 actively practicing oral maxillofacial surgeons in the care of patients when emergencies occur using a low risk but high stakes game of simulators. And we need facilitators and teachers to make sure this can go effectively when it comes to your region and your state.

So, so many avenues. In addition to all of what he mentioned, you know, if you want to be a site visitor for accreditation processes, so either for education or for even accreditation of your healthcare center and things like that. There are other portions of AAOMS activities that may not be related directly to AAOMS, but also, somehow serve the specialty in one way or another, either through the Commission on Dental Accreditation or other accreditation services. So many avenues, so little time.

Host: Well, some of the things that David said, there's over 20 committees. You can check out advocacy groups, grassroots campaigns, become a JOMS reviewer, volunteer at the state level. So certainly a lot of opportunities to get involved. And then Deepak, I know you said earlier, you were talking about your relationship with David and how you met and this certainly has enriched your professional life, and it sounds like vice versa. Deepak, I'm wondering though, how, how has this been rewarding to you overall and how, if you could?

Deepak G. Krishnan, DDS, FACS: So the more you give, the more you receive. It's always been the case. Whatever kind of reception that is and whatever kind of deliverance it is. The network of friends that you create in a wonderful specialty. If you have a patient in Chattanooga or Knoxville, I know exactly who to call. If I have a patient migrating to Seattle, I know who to call.

It doesn't matter where in the world they go, our profession is so tightly knit that you know people somewhere or another. You know, you have mentees and students and residents traveling to different parts of the country looking for jobs. You know, you always know who to call to get the lay of the land.

You have unbiased opinions and people that will speak the truth to you. There's no facades, there's no barriers to discussing. Even difficult things, it becomes so easy when you have a good network of professional and, and, personal friends. That has been, you know, there are a lot of very smart people that serve on different committees from different parts of the country that come together at AAOMS. Sometimes you just don't meet them in your daily realm of activity.

And then you go to an, an AAOMS meeting or a committee meeting and you sit across the table with some of the smartest people in the world and their perspectives change your perspective. And their viewpoint of certain things may not be what you walked in the room with, but you get influenced by it, and you take away so much. Like I said, you receive, the more you give, the more you receive.

Host: Yeah, so well said. David, how about you?

James David Johnson, Jr., DDS: Well Bill, when I see the results, the outcomes of the efforts of our OMS volunteers, I'm filled with a sense of humility and gratitude. It's so gratifying to see or to be involved in preserving the OMS anesthesia model and surgical scope, in maintaining effective policies in Medicare and Medicaid that shows the public that we really care about their welfare. Advancing the AAOMS member engagement in our organization in activities like ours, what we're doing right now, and building bridges with other healthcare organizations. I can't explain how meaningful that is. And the sense of satisfaction, we're all blades of grass, and yet, there's a, a deep sense of satisfaction that may be in a few years no one will remember my name, but there may be something that I've done that has contributed that it is long lasting.

Host: We're all blades of grass. I love that. That's a great way to put it. So, David, let me ask you then, someone might be listening to this thinking, I would love to get involved, but gosh, I don't know. I'm so busy with my practice. And then how am I going to have time to volunteer? How do you balance your time? What is your advice?

James David Johnson, Jr., DDS: The first thing I would say, Bill, is if I can do it, anybody can do it. And I mean that sincerely. And I also go back to the phrase of if you want something done, ask a busy person. We have exceptionally qualified people in our profession and they're all busy in their practices. They're all successful. And some of them don't realize just how well they could take on these roles. What I do every day is literally write down a bullet point priority list for my day. This helps me organize, as I'm busy treating patients and in between, and as my nurses are getting my patients ready; I take advantage of those moments to accomplish different things. And sometimes I have to block certain time to accomplish things for the organization. But I think it's just a matter of thinking ahead, planning your day, having a team meeting with your staff at the beginning of the day so they know what your challenges are. And working as a team. I'm very fortunate in my practice to have long-term employees. I have two nurses, for example, one's been with me for 25 years and one's been with me for 18 years, and they almost have me trained at this point.

Host: Oh, that is so good. If you want something done, ask a busy person. You're, you're just full of, I'm, I'm writing all, all these great notes. David, I, I'm, I'm loving. I'm learning from both of you and Deepak, let me ask you same question. How do you balance your volunteerism with your busy practice?

Deepak G. Krishnan, DDS, FACS: Well, it has to come from within. You can't force these things. There's no better time to serve than today and now, right? There is no better reason to serve than what you are already doing. These are all extensions of your professional and personal life. You know, when in surgery, surgical training teaches us to improvise while staying close to very strong principles that make things work. That approach then kind of goes out further into our lives with managing our schedules and the fact that Dr. Johnson's office has a daily mornings hurdle, like a huddle, right? So that huddle helps them get over challenges in this, in that day's schedule, disruptions that might occur, hurdles that might occur and allows for all of these things.

This is exactly what we do in surgery. And that is a wonderful part of our training that allows us to manage our schedules, our busy schedules. When do you make time? You make time. It's not, when do you make time? It is, the question is, will you make time? And the only answer to that question is, yes, I will make time. Because it is important work. And if we don't do it, somebody else is going to do it for us and we'll be left behind. Like Dr. Johnson said, they'll come. We are all snapshots in time. We are here to serve today. Somebody will take on the work tomorrow and build on what we built, and that's how the life of an Oral Maxillofacial Surgery Association moves on.

This is how it'll be for generations beyond us, and this is, we are standing on the shoulders of giants that did the same thing before we came into the door.

Host: And people that follow will stand on your shoulders as well. Very well said. So could you each give me an example of something that you've learned both professionally and personally during your time on various committees and boards? Deepak, let's start with you.

Deepak G. Krishnan, DDS, FACS: Humility, you learn a lot of humility. You know, right from the get-go, you're told you're a smart person. Your, your mother tells you that you could be smarter and work harder, but your father always pats you on the back and says, you know, well done, right? And you compete on national levels for positions. You get them. You are top in your class. You think you're somewhat smart. And then you walk into a larger room with people that are superbly and above and beyond smarter than you are, and then you become suddenly humble. And that humility will not come to you if you stay cooped up in your little office and, and you think you are the smartest person in that town or wherever you are.

But humility has been the biggest lesson that I have taken away from teamwork. That tells you that, you know, it's, it's a collective form of governance. There are ideas that are bounced. There is mutual respect, even if you disagree. There are ways in which you can do this without being antagonistic to each other.

There is always middle ground and relationships that are formed that you cherish thereafter. Both professionally and personally. Families get to know each other and these are long lasting relationships, both within our specialty and beyond our specialty. But you walk in the room and you feel completely humble as soon as you leave.

Host: That is really important insight, so thank you for sharing that. And David, how about you? Something you've learned both professionally and personally during your time on various committees and, and boards and being the past president.

James David Johnson, Jr., DDS: I've learned very clearly the truth behind the Martin Luther King Junior quotation that "everybody can be great, because everybody can serve." And in that I've seen the greatest examples of being thankful. Mentors who have shown me and been such great examples in living a full and balanced life in attuned leadership.

And in that it's a almost a diversity statement. And the, as we lead, we need to understand the differences in the people we lead and that they come from different backgrounds. It is not only rewarding, but it's educational, and active listening. I've seen the greatest examples of people who have a real talent in listening to others.

As Deepak said, humility. I've seen stewardship. We all, uh, have an obligation, a duty to leave things in a better condition than when we found them. And I've seen example after example of this, and ending with service and good works. I've learned a great deal from my, uh, peers, those who came before me. And I'm very grateful for those opportunities.

Host: Again, very well said, and thank you for sharing your insight. I want to thank you both for your time. As we wrap up, I would just love to hear final thoughts from each of you on the importance of volunteering. I know you've given us some really great nuggets, but this is your chance to fill in the gaps if there's anything we missed. Deepak, let's start with you. Anything else you'd like to add?

Deepak G. Krishnan, DDS, FACS: Academic surgery is what, what my life is day in and day out. And I teach very smart people. I train amongst the smartest of the grouping. One thing that I've realized as we get older, we have to balance our missions, and that includes volunteerism. The panacea of work-life balance that is touted so much in the industry, is more of a work-life integration. What you think of work might not be defined as work by somebody else, and you might define work and life very differently. And in our world, it's a fine line that separates the two. Oftentimes it integrates much better. We don't sign off on emails and we don't stop checking messages because our patients are trying to reach us all the time.

We just took care of a human being as a human being that's responsible for another human being. We cannot turn off. I'm not a corporate CEO to do that. I can't turn off my work. Right? So we have to integrate volunteerism just as much as we do into everything else we do. We can't think of volunteerism as work and say that, oh, life gets in the way and so I cannot do this part for my specialty. It is important that we continue to do that. It is critical that we continue to do that, and I hope that more and more people will continue to provide more.

Host: Thank you so much for that. That is really, uh, inspiring. Quite frankly. So thank you for that. And David, if you could wrap it up for us, then I'd love your final thoughts, anything you'd like to add on the importance of volunteering.

James David Johnson, Jr., DDS: Well, in perfect balance in my mind. Deepak is an academic oral and maxillofacial surgeon, and I'm a private practice oral and maxillofacial surgeon. And never is there a day where I don't walk from the office, at the close of the day and think, and, and I've realized that I've helped someone in a tangible way. And that's such a privilege. And so I will end as I started, and that's with the mission of AAOMS in assuring access, patient access to safe and effective care.

Host: Perfect way to end it. So I'll go back to Dr. Johnson and Dr. Krishnan, thank you so much for your time today. This has really been, uh, inspiring and I know this podcast will give everybody a lot of insight and hopefully we're going to get a lot more volunteers out of this. So, Thank you both again. We appreciate it.

James David Johnson, Jr., DDS: Thanks, Bill.

Deepak G. Krishnan, DDS, FACS: Thanks, Bill.

Host: AAOMS does encourage members to engage in volunteer opportunities. For more information, please visit aaoms.org. That's aaoms.org/volunteer. And if you enjoyed this podcast, please share it on your social channels and make sure you subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Thanks for listening.