Joey Wahler (Host): He is the retired president and CEO of Advocate Health and winner of ACHE's 2025 Gold Medal Award. So, we're speaking with Jim Skogsbergh about healthcare leadership. This is the Healthcare Executive Podcast from the American College of Healthcare Executives. Thanks so much for joining us. I am Joey Wahler. Hi, Jim. Welcome.

James Skogsbergh: Hey, Joey, how are you? It's great to be with you.

Host: I am great. How are you doing today?

James Skogsbergh: All good, all good. Looking forward to the conversation.

Host: Same here. So first, congratulations on receiving ACHE's highest honor, its Gold Medal Award. What does that mean to you?

James Skogsbergh: When I got the phone call, I was kind of shocked, kind of surprised. It was like, "Whoa, where did this come from? But here's the answer to the question, Joey. It's very gratifying to receive it because it comes from the ACHE, which is an organization that just does a lot for all of us in the field and is looked to as sort of the go-to organization. And, so coming from ACHE, it's very gratifying. It means a lot. And to be honest with you, it's very humbling, because I know a lot of people in the field. And I know a lot of people who are as deserving, if not more deserving of this award than myself. So, both gratifying and humbling to have received it.

Host: So, what would you say first led you to a career in healthcare? Where did the spark initially come from?

James Skogsbergh: To be honest with you, I backed into healthcare. Let me explain what I mean by that. I was undeclared as an undergrad for three years. I had classes in every college. I didn't quite know what I wanted to do, and it was my mother who's a nurse that said, "Hey, listen. You like healthcare, you like business. Have you ever thought about hospital administration?" I was like, "What is it? Never heard of it." Interviewed with a couple of local hospital administrators. Applied to graduate school and away we go.

And I contrast that with so many of my friends that knew from the jump "I'm going to be a doctor," "I'm going to be a lawyer," "I'm going to be a fireman," "I'm going to be a policeman," "I'm going to be an astronaut," whatever the case is. And most of them, not all of them, but most of them have changed careers. I kind of backed into healthcare and never looked back. It was right for me from the jump. And what a great career i've been blessed.

Host: That's awesome. So, who better than mom to help her son see the forest through the trees, right?

James Skogsbergh: Yeah, exactly. She'll love knowing that I said that.

Host: I'm sure she would. So Jim, how would you describe ,in a nutshell, your leadership style over the years and how would you say you've been able to make it work effectively among the teams that you've led in your career?

James Skogsbergh: I would describe it-- I'd love to share that with my team and see what they say. Mostly open, inclusive. Very much team-oriented. I'm not a big fan of silos. I wanted everybody to participate. I wanted folks to question and challenge and probe and debate, so that we end up with, you know, a great decision.

in fact, when we had our team meetings, I made it clear that, "Hey, in here, you're just an advocate exec. Take off your CFO hat. Take off your COO hat. Take off your CNO hat. You're just an advocate exec." And I think everybody appreciated. And, you know, I didn't really have to make it work necessarily, because I discovered, at least my experience is an N of one. But my experience is that people want to be asked their opinion, they want to weigh in, they want to make a difference, and they want to share their thoughts. And I created an environment where that kind of worked for me and it worked for our team, and we had a little bit of success. So, it was a great ride.

Host: And it seems as though speaking with different leaders myself, the best ones are often the best listeners right?

James Skogsbergh: I believe that's correct. You know, two ears, one mouth. Good lord had something in mind there. So yeah, I think the real talent is when you find people who listen but also hear what's not being said. They listen so well. They know what's being suggested or hinted at. And I had the good fortune of surrounding myself with tremendously talented people that had that skillset.

Host: Because sometimes people are a little reluctant to be completely honest with the boss, right?

James Skogsbergh: Yeah. You got to create a safe environment where, like I said, it's okay to challenge, okay to probe, okay to debate. And once people realize, "Okay, this is legit, this is genuine," then, you know, they'll weigh in, take off the gloves and give us their best thinking. And I always thought we'd made great decisions when we had everybody's best thinking.

Host: Absolutely. So, what are a couple of the biggest challenges you faced in your career, and what do you think you'll learn from those experiences?

James Skogsbergh: Yeah, my goodness. You know, it's 40 some years. So, here's maybe three or four that come to mind and they're not in order of importance. But we faced organized labor challenge early in my career that, was Let's say interesting. And it taught you a lot about your relationship with your workforce and people don't really run to something. Sometimes they're running away from something. I think, because we're a faith-based healthcare organization, there are a lot of church dynamics. And I was, for the most part, able to navigate those streams pretty well. We're based in Chicago and there's a lot of Chicago politics. We closed a hospital, and that was challenging in the Chicago environment.

But the biggest challenge without a doubt, I'd be surprised if any of my colleagues would answer it differently was the pandemic, just deer in the headlights for call it first week or two. And then, it's like, "Okay, here we are and it's our turn and we got to step up." And I tell the lessons there were amazing. I learned the power of systemness because we had just done a deal in Wisconsin and nothing like sending people from Chicago up to Wisconsin, or we're sending equipment from Wisconsin down to Chicago to really create a team environment.

I learned the value of clarity, clarity of purpose. Because when this hit, we kind of circled the wagon and said, "Okay, when this thing's behind us, when this is in the rear view mirror, what do we want people to say of us? What do we want said of advocate when this whole thing is behind us?" And we said, took great care of our patients, took great care of our people, and took great care of our community. And that was a guiding light for all of us as we made decisions throughout that very, very difficult time.

And then, the other thing I learned, you kind of know this, but until you experience it, you don't quite have an appreciation. And that is the power of words. I had heard something in one of our invocations from another party that's they ended the invocation with calm over chaos and faith over fear. And boom! I mean, that hit me. I used it every week in my video updates to our entire workforce. And I can't tell you how that resonated with our workforce. Calm over chaos, faith over fear. I closed every video update with those words. And man, I saw it on t-shirts, I saw it on people's signature pages on your email. I saw it everywhere. And when I was departing, after my announcement was made and I was getting ready to exit stage left, just incredible comments from people about how important those words were. So, there's a few challenges that you get to deal with over the course of 40 some years. And without a doubt, the pandemic was the biggest. But we came out, I think, stronger and better as a result of it.

Host: And so when you got that kind of feedback from your colleagues, perhaps in a way that you weren't expecting to, it sounds like you were moved by that. What did that mean to you?

James Skogsbergh: First of all, I was not expecting it. I know that it meant a lot to me when I heard it, so I just stole it shamelessly, right? But realizing in those scary, difficult, challenging situations, people want calm, and they want to not be afraid. And they want to know that, you know, somebody's with you, particularly the CEO.

Now, I've just talked about the power of words, but, Joey, I got to tell you, if you don't walk the talk, then it's worth nothing. So, words can be pretty cheap too. I'm the first to admit that, but we kind of walked the talk and all of our decisions were based on, "Hey, is this good for our patients? Is it good for our people? Is it good for our community? And if you can line those up, then you know you're making good decisions. And that's what we did throughout the pandemic. And we're very proud of kind of how we handled it and how we came out of it. And don't want to go through it again, that's for sure.

Host: No question about that. Switching gears a little bit, Jim, you're also a fellow of the American College of Healthcare Executives. So, how would you say that FACHE credential has benefited you in your career?

James Skogsbergh: It's interesting, the FACHE credential. I don't know how it benefited me directly because I don't know how people evaluated me because of it. But I will say this, it helped me as I evaluated talent. It helped me as I considered candidates. And when I saw the FACHE, I knew that person had made a commitment to the field. Because really what it represents, a commitment to the field. And I wanted that. I wanted people who were making commitments to the field and thinking beyond themselves. So, it was very helpful to me in that regard.

Now, whether people looked at me differently, I'm not quite sure. But I have to confess, I looked at people differently when I saw that, and I still do. Because I think making a commitment to the field is a great reflection on who you are as a leader, who you are as a healthcare executive. So that's kind of how I think I benefited from it.

Host: How about the best advice you have for emerging leaders that haven't been at it as long as you've been and are still trying to find their way for that particular touch that they want to use?

James Skogsbergh: There are four things that I consistently say to young leaders, and they're kind of in this order. I say, first, be the very best at whatever you're currently doing. Whatever your current assignment is, your current role, your current position, be the best, okay? The second thing is, in your career, think about job growth and think about scope of responsibility. Don't put money ahead of that. And then, I tell everybody, you know, keep learning. Just continuous learning and new experiences like work in a health plan, work in operations, work in the medical group. Making sure that you get broad experience.

And then, the fourth one, which is probably harder for them to hear is be patient. It's not always about what's next. "What's my next job? Yeah. Yeah. I just got this one. I just landed this one. I'm so excited. But hey, I really got my eye on this." I think that's unhealthy. And so, I counsel young people to be patient. Opportunities will present themselves. But man, just be the best you are or the best you can be at your current role. Think about your job scope and responsibilities. Don't chase the money. And continuous learning, continuous, broad experiences, and then be patient.

Host: Because, Jim, it seems like many in various fields that tend to do what you said, keep their head down, worry about today, not so much about tomorrow in terms of opportunity and just trust that doing a good job will bring good things. It seems like often those are the people that get ahead fastest, right?

James Skogsbergh: Yeah, I think so. I mean, you know, frankly, the way to get noticed is to do a great job, right? And sometimes ambition can get in the way. And believe me, I'm not saying ambition is bad, but I am saying that you sort of want to keep it in check. And ambition for the greater good is better than ambition for self. if I had a test for that, I'd dip your finger in the cup. And if it comes out blue, you're in. If it comes out red, you know, you got to go back to class or something. But some of those things you don't figure out until you're in it.

Host: Couple of other things. You seem like an optimistic man by nature, so what would you say gives you the most hope about the healthcare field in the coming years?

James Skogsbergh: Yeah. Thank you for that. Because I do believe that my glass is half full. And I'm the eternal optimist, and some would say maybe rose-colored glasses on occasion. But always look at the bright side. I am encouraged about the future of the field, largely because of the incredible talent in the field. I'm talking about young CEOs that had just gotten into the role. I'm talking about those next level down that they're going to become CEOs. And even young leaders, you know, the managers and the directors and the vice presidents. Unbelievable talent. You can't help but be excited. And I tell you what, we've never needed leadership more than today because the challenges are only getting greater. It's a very difficult field and becoming even more so with the financial pressures and all the other ones as well. But incredible talent in the field, which is what gives me optimism about the future.

Host: All right. And in summary, now that you're retired, Jim, what would you say your next chapter is going to look like here? What are you going to do now?

James Skogsbergh: Yeah. I've already started my next chapter. I am doing some executive coaching. And I'm coming alongside some people that I know and I care about, and I'm invested in their success. And I've got clients in California and New Mexico and Louisiana and parts in between. And these are all people that they're all in this CEO role. And I like the idea of been there, done that, and to the extent that I can either help them miss a speed bump or a bump in the road, or I can help them deal with it when they hit it is gratifying for me. So, coming alongside some people, watching them grow, watching them have some success, is what I'm currently doing and having a lot of fun doing it. So, executive coaching is this next chapter.

Host: Well, that sounds very apropos in order to apply all that great knowledge. Folks, we trust you are now more familiar with healthcare leadership through the eyes of ACHE Gold Medal winner, Jim Skogsbergh. Jim, congrats again on the honor and on your wonderful career. Enjoy that next phase. It sounds very exciting as well, and a pleasure. Thanks so much again.

James Skogsbergh: Joey, thank you. I appreciate it.

Host: Same here. And for more information, please do visit healthcareexecutive.org. Now, if you found this podcast helpful, please do share it on your social media. I am Joey Wahler. And thanks so much again for being part of the Healthcare Executive Podcast from the American College of Healthcare Executives.