Scott Webb (Host): Welcome to the Healthcare Executive Podcast, providing you with insightful commentary and developments in the world of healthcare leadership. To learn more, visit ache.org. I'm your host, Scott Webb.

And today we're discussing artificial intelligence or AI in healthcare with Dr. Xingchu Liu. He's the Chief Data and Analytics Officer and Head of Data, Digital and Analytics at Genentech. Genentech is one of ACHE'S premier corporate partners. Our premier corporate partners support ACHE'S vision and mission to advance healthcare leadership excellence.

Host: For more information on Genentech, please visit the corporate partner section of ache.org.

Scott Webb (Host): Xingchu, it's nice to have you here today. I was just mentioning to you, I want to learn more about healthcare and AI. I have a lot of vested interests as a person, as someone who, like many is experiencing AI in the world and social media, and perhaps in healthcare. And I know the conversation around AI does seem like it's everywhere.

So how does an organization leverage AI as a core asset that simplifies healthcare challenges and drives better patient outcomes?

Xingchu Liu, Ph.D: First of all, thank you for having me today Scott, and very much looking to this conversation. You know, to your question, how do we think about this as a organization? The number one rule we try to look at from the end-to-end value chain across Genentech, meaning through, you know, R&D side, looking at the clinical team, looking at how we connect the scientific breakthrough to then patients. As we all know, the, the healthcare systems in the United States is still pretty complex and there's still many steps to really reach to find the patient, making sure they get the treatments, at the right time as well.

So that's where thinking about AI In terms of embedding and empowering through the end-to-end value chain. And I'm happy to share, you know, and several examples along the way. But from the external perspective, and this is also what we are looking at, is the AI is redefining what is possible for both the physicians and the patients.

You know what we can see that today for patients in a number of areas, the disease areas, patients becoming more empowered in terms of being informed with the information, but also having more influence in the decision-making. Sometimes working closely with the doctors through that as well. At the same time for doctors with the newer generations, the doctors becoming more digital savvy, so they're more open to the conversations, getting the informations and engaged and through not only the in-person, but also through the digital channels and social medias and other's. So that also putting a new expectation in terms of how AI can empower from healthcare perspective that the physicians and the patients.

The third piece also at Genentech, we truly believe that people, our team members are the most valuable assets. So we're looking at AI as a force multiplier. Then we're looking at how do we leverage AI to empower every team member on Genentech team in terms of upscaling, in terms of leveraging the tools, but at the end, empower our team.

Host: Yeah, it seems the common thread there really is the word empowering, right? Empowering all patients, providers, everybody. So, it makes me wonder then, what are some of the ways healthcare organizations can use AI as that great empowering tool for all the team members?

Xingchu Liu, Ph.D: Right. So, in terms of the empowerment, the tools for all the team members, you know, for example. And today, as I mentioned earlier, both the patients and the doctors becoming more digital savvy. So in that sense, in terms of how we engage, the information that we share even the, you know, thinking about the discovery of the drug, the medicine phase has been accelerated by the AI, the molecule design, the discovery.

So through that phase where we recognize is that the treatment becoming more targeted for the specific disease, and at the same time, the information for both the doctors and patients becoming overwhelming. So we are leveraging the AI to make sure that we have more tailored, personalized information to share with the doctors and patients at the right time and with right information.

Then it comes to, for the each team, how do we really tailor our content? That's where the AI, for example, we leverage the AI to really thinking about having the right content, but personalized. That means we need to be able to generate more personalized content with the higher speed, but also with the, you know, lower capacity need.

So that's where we made great progress last year by leveraging AI. That's one example.

Host: Okay.

Xingchu Liu, Ph.D: The other example is also in, in terms of how we engage with the doctors and patients at the right time. That's also where AI can really step in and help us having more and deeper understanding along the patient journey, so we can really help and provide the right support at the right time.

Host: Yeah, and I'm with you so far and it is interesting. I just, the wheels are turning in my head because I'm thinking, well, you know, AI could somehow be less personal for patients in the wrong hands, right? Or the wrong company. And it sounds to me like it's still, despite all the science and technology and all that involved, it's still really personal.

It's still really individualized medical care and, and that just brings a smile to my face.

Xingchu Liu, Ph.D: Absolutely. I think that's where, we definitely see the trend is going. At the same time, it does put up a greater challenge, to the entire healthcare system. On one side I'm very excited about if we do this right, we can really target the right solution and provide the right access to patients.

And also moving from just treating when the disease happens to preventive care, right? Really identify those earlier, that would be good for the patients, but also good for the entire healthcare systems and in, in terms of lower costs and, you know, better outcomes.

Scott Webb: Right, I'm not the expert that you are or that a lot of the experts that I speak with, but I, have heard that, many times that prevention is just better, obviously for patients but also less expensive for the entire system. Less burden on the entire system. We can sort of prevent and maybe with AI maybe at some point we'll be predicting, uh, it's really amazing.

Xingchu Liu, Ph.D: Absolutely. You know, if you think about Genentech is a part of Roche as a member of Roche Group, and within Roche we also have the diagnostic business unit where it is also focusing more on identifying the disease and hopefully, you know, capture them earlier. Then we can also help the broader in the patient population.

Host: Yeah, it's very cool. And I want to talk about the future of biopharma, you know, the biopharma workforce with AI, and it makes me wonder, you know, just thinking out loud here, like to use AI effectively as we're talking about here, is it more important to hire top tier data scientists or to retrain the existing workforce?

Xingchu Liu, Ph.D: That's a great question, Scott. And also I think there's a bit of, you know, elephant in the room where, you know, is AI really replacing taking jobs from the current folks. And I think at Genentech we're looking at this as I mentioned earlier, our team members, our people are the most valuable asset.

So we're definitely looking at upscaling and empowering. We do see the future that with AI, that as a you know, as a company if we are able to have the skills to use it, to empower it, to be able to govern it and use it in a responsible way; that will be the future for us. But that means from now, and actually at Genetech, we have been doing this for the past, you know, 24 or months longer, is to really embracing the AI to everyone within the organization.

We had a major initiative to have everyone be trained and upscaling on the fundamental AI skills. That opened up a lot of great ideas. That's where the creativity, the innovation coming from each member of the team, that's so exciting.

Host: Yeah, and the folks there obviously, you know, unlike us lay people were, you were able to teach them and to train them and to bring them into the conversation and, you know, throw ideas out and brainstorm it. It just sounds like such an exciting time and sort of thinking about the leader of organizations, right?

So the role of leader in data and analytics, it's obviously constantly evolving. So what are some critical skills or traits needed for leaders to stay ahead of the constant technological curve while, you know, still remaining authentic and grounded for their teams?

Xingchu Liu, Ph.D: Absolutely. So I think that's where I recall one conversation I had with my colleagues. This was just a couple weeks ago. They're like, Hey, Xingchu, you know, you're the leader in the AI space and so you really know about everything, right? I'm like, no, I don't know about everything. Because the change and the pace of the AI is evolution is just moving so fast.

So as a leader, I think the number one trait is about curiosity. We gotta continue to be able to learn, continue to be able to navigate, and also have an open mind in terms of looking at how we work today. And be able to challenge the status quo. It's okay to say, let's try something new. And sometimes it may work, sometimes it may not.

But if it doesn't, let it fail quickly. We learn and just, uh, build up from there. So in addition to curiosity, I think the other one is really having this iterative mind and continue to learning by doing it, but also be encouraging the team to have that bit of entrepreneur and more, way of mindset as well that would empower the team to really embrace this new, you know, area of the AI as well.

Host: Right, right. If the leader's on board, the team will hopefully follow everybody pulling on the same end. And Xingchu, I want to talk about the external partnerships and the future of biopharma. If we can look into our crystal ball, if you will. You know, healthcare organizations, including biopharma companies, are collaborating with technology giants and startups to accelerate innovation, right?

So how can healthcare organizations manage external partnerships to ensure a seamless integration of new technologies that ultimately enhances patient outcomes?

Xingchu Liu, Ph.D: Yeah, that's a great question. I know, today probably every company feel even pressured. Say, Hey, I gotta be in this AI era. I gotta do something. And that there's a plenty kind of stress about it, but at the same time, I always come back to our fundamental. Number one, we are fully committed to serving our patients and create better outcomes. We're committed to delivering more patient, more medicines to patients faster. That's really our core. That would really define everything we do. On top of that, there are also robust business strategy in terms of as a organization, how we work together.

Because we trust each other and with a large organization, we gotta be able to work in a coordinated and orchestrated way so that the business strategy also define where we focus, where we prioritize, where we think, and believe that as Genentech, we can really serve our patients the best in the most effective way.

So from there, that's really giving us the core at the root and the foundation in terms of thinking about technology and how do we partner with, you know, large technology teams, but also sometimes it's a smaller. The benefit of, you know, working with the smaller teams, oftentimes they move faster, right?

They have a bit of more innovative and faster pace. But at the same time with the AI, there's a lot of uncertainty as well. And I put a lot of pressure on the smaller AI teams you know, some AI teams will survive, thrive. Some other AI teams may face a lot of challenges. That's the other part that we look at the AI at the end of the day as a force multiplier, but really serving the broader business strategy, serving our team members, and eventually serving the patients.

Host: Yeah. Yeah. I love just because we're all patient's, right? You're a patient, I'm a patient, doctors are patients, right? Yeah. So I love hearing that despite anyway the science, the technology, the size of the organizations, all the complexities here that the patients really still come first, right? That in the end it is about them. Right?

Xingchu Liu, Ph.D: That's right. And also the other point I want to share, and this is probably some of the challenges with the you know, enterprise leaders are now given the excitement around the AI and many teams are jumping onto the new ideas. So there is a bit of fatigue of AI proof of concept, you know, AI pilot all the ideas because as a large organization, when you see the southern flowers blooming, the challenge is at the end, how many of them will truly scale and have a broader impact, or are we creating this siloed initiatives? And then sometimes you really conflict in each other. So that's where we put a lot of sauce in terms of how we think about our, our organization, our people, our new ways of working.

One thing we introduced is kind of embracing the software product operating model to have a more aligned priorities. Having the team working across the business and our technology partners, we kind of call it two in the box, and that's where really ensure not only we have the ideas, we try and prototype the concept, but we also have a path to scale.

Host: Right. Yeah. You've given me so much to think about. I'm so excited about this, and to hear more and to learn more and to see where the future goes. And let's finish up there. Like ways that you expect AI will transform healthcare and biotech, whether it's, you know, five minutes from now or a year, you know, three years, five years.

What are you seeing in the near future?

Xingchu Liu, Ph.D: First of all, I'm just so grateful to be part of this AI journey at such a pivotal moment. And, as a professional working the AI, there's no better time. And at the same time, I also recognize there's so much opportunities as a leader and we really, you know, work closely with the team.

So we find the right focus and serve our patients the best way. So having said that, in the healthcare and biotech, you know, I'm a bit biased towards the Genentech portfolio or the way we think about.

Host: Of course. Yeah.

Xingchu Liu, Ph.D: how we serve the patient's. Number one on the R & D, you know, side, we definitely see the acceleration in terms of the medicine discovery and development. That's where the AI plays such a key role. So that will continue to play a bigger role where we'll see more medicines, have more targeted treatment to the patients, over the next, years to come. So that's very exciting. At the same time, we also see this will bring a bit of challenge to the healthcare systems in terms of educating the physicians what the new medicines are available, what's the right way to, you know, administer them and then for the patients, ensure they have the access at the right time.

So that's where I see also AI playing a much bigger role in terms of connecting and streamlining through the healthcare systems to connect the scientific breakthrough to end patients in a more effective way. But also at the same time, I see the challenge in terms of the entire healthcare systems.

Thinking about the insurance companies, I think about, you know all the parties kind of coming together. And we're still trying to work in our own way, if that makes sense. Now with the AI empowerment, it is a time for us even to reimagine how the entire AI systems can be working in a new way with the AI as the empowerment.

Host: Yeah, you said, reimagine there, you know, and all the things that are swirling around in my head, but I'm just thinking like we're already reimagining AI, you know, sort of on the fly here, we're reimagining healthcare. We're just re-imagining everything and in science and technology, you know, scientists and sort of leading the charge, leading the way.

But in the end, it always comes back to the end user, if you will, the patient right in the room, in the operating room. I just love it. All of it.

Xingchu Liu, Ph.D: Yes. Totally agree. Ultimately. That really makes, you know, my job or Genentech, everyone's job meaningful because we truly believe our mission. We're truly passionate about how we can better serve our patients and bring the better outcomes. And with the AI technology, with what we you know, have in our hands, we feel more empowered and we have more confidence in terms of how we can better serve the patients in the future.

Host: That's perfect. Well, I know I could keep you on all day if you'd let me. But, for today, for this podcast, I appreciate your time, your expertise, all this great information. I'm going to be thinking about it all day. Thank you so much.

Xingchu Liu, Ph.D: Thank you very much for having me.

Host: And that's Dr. Xingchu Liu, Chief Data and Analytics Officer and Head of Data, Digital and Analytics at Genentech. Genentech is one of ACHE'S premier corporate partners. Our premier corporate partners support ACHE'S vision and mission to advance healthcare leadership excellence.

For more information on Genentech, please visit the corporate partner section of ache.org.

And if you enjoyed this podcast, please share it on your social channels and please consider rating and reviewing our show. Thanks for listening.