Selected Podcast
Physician Leadership: From the Bedside to the Boardroom
The COVID-19 pandemic has challenged physicians in unimaginable ways. The practice of medicine seems to change by the hour, if not by the minute. No matter what a physician’s practice arrangement or daily activity is, leadership skills are central to one’s success. In this podcast, Dr. Nichols shares her years of leadership experience and explores the meaning and importance of being physician leader.
Featuring:
Dr. Nichols has received the highest awards bestowed by the AOA, the American Association of College of Osteopathic Medicine, the Arizona Osteopathic Medical Association (AOMA), Illinois Osteopathic Medical Society and KCU-COM, as well as the alumni associations of CCOM and KCU-COM. She holds 8 honorary degrees.
She has served as President of the AOA, President of the AOMA and President of the American College of Osteopathic Internists and was the first woman to hold all those positions. She is Past President of the Institute of Medicine of Chicago Board of Governors. Dr. Nichols is one of the two first DOs nominated by the AOA and elected to the Accreditation Council of Graduate Medical Education board. She is the 2020-2022 Chair of that board.
In 2004 Dr. Nichols created the endowed Costin Institute for Osteopathic Medical Educators, sited at MWU/CCOM, a one-year hybrid fellowship which has graduated over 300 medical educators. Dr. Nichols teaches nationally and internationally on the topics of end-of-life care, physician leadership, and women leaders in medicine.
Karen Nichols, DO, MA, MACOI
Karen J. Nichols, DO, MA, MACOI, is most recently the Dean of the Midwestern University/Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine (MWU/CCOM) serving since 2002 until stepping down July 2018. Prior to serving as Dean, she was Assistant Dean, Post-Doctoral Education and Chair, Internal Medicine at the MWU/Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine since 1997. She was in the private practice of internal medicine and geriatrics in Mesa, Arizona from 1985 through 2002. A graduate of the Kansas City University College of Osteopathic Medicine (KCU-COM) with a DO degree, she holds a Master’s degree in Management with a specialty in Healthcare Administration from Central Michigan University.Dr. Nichols has received the highest awards bestowed by the AOA, the American Association of College of Osteopathic Medicine, the Arizona Osteopathic Medical Association (AOMA), Illinois Osteopathic Medical Society and KCU-COM, as well as the alumni associations of CCOM and KCU-COM. She holds 8 honorary degrees.
She has served as President of the AOA, President of the AOMA and President of the American College of Osteopathic Internists and was the first woman to hold all those positions. She is Past President of the Institute of Medicine of Chicago Board of Governors. Dr. Nichols is one of the two first DOs nominated by the AOA and elected to the Accreditation Council of Graduate Medical Education board. She is the 2020-2022 Chair of that board.
In 2004 Dr. Nichols created the endowed Costin Institute for Osteopathic Medical Educators, sited at MWU/CCOM, a one-year hybrid fellowship which has graduated over 300 medical educators. Dr. Nichols teaches nationally and internationally on the topics of end-of-life care, physician leadership, and women leaders in medicine.
Transcription:
Maggie McKay (Host): Hello and welcome to the American College of Osteopathic Internists' podcast, Docs Off the Clock. Juggling the business of medicine and caring for patients, means doctors always seem to be on the clock. Docs Off the Clock features some of today's best voices in healthcare with tips on how to live a better balanced life.
Thanks for stopping by today. The purpose of this podcast is to learn about Physician Leadership: From the Bedside to the Boardroom. We're joined by Dr. Karen Nichols, who is a Physician Leader and Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine and President of the ACOI in 2000-2001. And the first woman to be elected to the office.
Welcome Doctor.
Karen Nichols, DO, MA, MACOI (Guest): Thank you. I appreciate getting a chance to talk to you.
Host: Absolutely. Thanks for your time. So, Doctor you are undoubtedly an exemplary example of a Physician Leader. You've led at every level of your career from the bedside to the boardroom. Would you talk a little bit about what it means to be a Physician Leader?
Dr. Nichols: Oh, sure. From my perspective, every single physician is a leader. It's what we're trained to do. It's how you approach every patient. And the interesting perspective, is that as a physician, we bring a particular view to medicine that is not part of how other leaders are trained in medicine. So, it's really important that physicians be involved in leadership. We have a responsibility to move into other arenas and serve as leaders with our physician background.
Host: Do the years of developing clinical skills translate well into leadership and does being a skilled clinician automatically translate into being a skilled leader? What's the difference?
Dr. Nichols: That is an excellent question. I think you probably know, I just published a book entitled Physician Leadership, the 11 Skills You Need to Be An Effective Physician Leader and I deal with this exact set of questions. Yes, developing the clinical skills does translate well into leadership in some of those skills. In other areas, the skills that you learn as a physician, are not the ones that you need to have to be an effective leader. And there's a third category of skills that we have learned as physicians. And they're exactly the same skills that you use as a leader, but we don't do it.
So, let me give you a quick overview of what I'm talking about.
First of all, there are things that we should do as a physician. And we do them exactly the same as a leader. And those are things you almost don't have to mention, like exhibiting excellent character and following ethical principles. Exactly the same as a physician, as a leader. That second category would include things like having good relationships. And it's not something you really have to do in order to be an effective physician with your patients. The relationship is automatic because of the roles that you hold physician and patient. In a leadership role, not providing medical care, relationships become critically important. You have to develop an awareness of the person that you're working with, understand the skill set that they bring, the perspective that they bring and understand that just because it's not your perspective and not how you look at things; they're not wrong compared to you being right. You have to build relationships. And as a doctor seeing a patient, yes, you have a doctor-patient relationship. This is very different.
The third category is what so interesting. And it took me a while to figure this out. And here's an example, as you approach communications with a patient, you give them the information, they gather what it is you want to explain to them and that is the essence of your communications. When you enter into a relationship in a leadership situation, we don't apply that same thoughtfulness about communications. We'll say a word like independent and you know what it means and the person saying it knows what it means, but if you were talking to a patient, you would ask them more questions.
Well, what does that mean to you? How does it feel to you? Describe when that happens? The problem is when we go into a physician as a leader situation, we assume everybody knows what the words mean. And that gets us into a lot of trouble. So, there's some interesting distinctions between being a physician with skills and a leader with skills.
Host: And Doctor, how does one go about developing these required skills to be a successful leader? How do they leatn them?
Dr. Nichols: Well, every organization that you belong to particularly, ACOI has been excellent in this, understands that it's very important for our physicians to be leaders. So, there are programs, there are certificates. There are degrees that are out there for physicians. I try to avail myself of every kind of training opportunity that comes along because you can always learn more. There are a lots of training opportunities out there. Of course, I would recommend my book because it's kind of a summary of the literature that's out there and the points that are important for physicians to learn, there are plenty of other ways to learn how to be a leader.
Host: So, what unique challenges face physicians as they look to develop these goals?
Dr. Nichols: That is really the essence of the question. Physicians are so educated. And we have been trained, certified, re-educated, retrained, recertified for 12, 16 plus years that we know how to be physicians very well. And we sometimes slip into the assumption that all of that training and education is fungible or exactly translates into the way that you do it in leadership. And as I've pointed out, it's not. That's the biggest challenge is to understand how we have been trained to take care of patients is not 100% applicable and effective in the way that you need to be a leader.
Host: So, are there any final thoughts you'd like to leave our listeners with on this topic?
Dr. Nichols: I think the fact that people are giving consideration to being a leader outside of the physician-patient relationship is the most critical message that I want to get across. Physicians bring an unparalleled experience in the physician-patient relationship, realm. Nobody else has that depth of education and can utilize it to benefit patients.
So, we've got to put that in play in helping move the health systems forward, the governmental approaches to healthcare forward; physicians have to be at the table and they have to be effective leaders at the table.
Host: It's been a pleasure, Dr. Nichols, what a fascinating topic. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us.
Dr. Nichols: Thank you and appreciate your questions and your thoughtfulness.
Host: Check out our website at www.acoi.org and be sure to follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter. Thank you for spending a little time with us today. If you're interested to learn more about Dr. Nichols' lessons in leadership, her book; Physician Leadership, the 11 Skills, Every Doctor Needs to Be An Effective Leader is This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. and where other books are sold.
We look forward to future podcasts where we will continue to explore issues of importance to you. For additional information, please contact the ACOI directly at 1-800-327-5183. Or by visiting our website at www.acoi.org. You can also email us at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. Until next time, be well.
Maggie McKay (Host): Hello and welcome to the American College of Osteopathic Internists' podcast, Docs Off the Clock. Juggling the business of medicine and caring for patients, means doctors always seem to be on the clock. Docs Off the Clock features some of today's best voices in healthcare with tips on how to live a better balanced life.
Thanks for stopping by today. The purpose of this podcast is to learn about Physician Leadership: From the Bedside to the Boardroom. We're joined by Dr. Karen Nichols, who is a Physician Leader and Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine and President of the ACOI in 2000-2001. And the first woman to be elected to the office.
Welcome Doctor.
Karen Nichols, DO, MA, MACOI (Guest): Thank you. I appreciate getting a chance to talk to you.
Host: Absolutely. Thanks for your time. So, Doctor you are undoubtedly an exemplary example of a Physician Leader. You've led at every level of your career from the bedside to the boardroom. Would you talk a little bit about what it means to be a Physician Leader?
Dr. Nichols: Oh, sure. From my perspective, every single physician is a leader. It's what we're trained to do. It's how you approach every patient. And the interesting perspective, is that as a physician, we bring a particular view to medicine that is not part of how other leaders are trained in medicine. So, it's really important that physicians be involved in leadership. We have a responsibility to move into other arenas and serve as leaders with our physician background.
Host: Do the years of developing clinical skills translate well into leadership and does being a skilled clinician automatically translate into being a skilled leader? What's the difference?
Dr. Nichols: That is an excellent question. I think you probably know, I just published a book entitled Physician Leadership, the 11 Skills You Need to Be An Effective Physician Leader and I deal with this exact set of questions. Yes, developing the clinical skills does translate well into leadership in some of those skills. In other areas, the skills that you learn as a physician, are not the ones that you need to have to be an effective leader. And there's a third category of skills that we have learned as physicians. And they're exactly the same skills that you use as a leader, but we don't do it.
So, let me give you a quick overview of what I'm talking about.
First of all, there are things that we should do as a physician. And we do them exactly the same as a leader. And those are things you almost don't have to mention, like exhibiting excellent character and following ethical principles. Exactly the same as a physician, as a leader. That second category would include things like having good relationships. And it's not something you really have to do in order to be an effective physician with your patients. The relationship is automatic because of the roles that you hold physician and patient. In a leadership role, not providing medical care, relationships become critically important. You have to develop an awareness of the person that you're working with, understand the skill set that they bring, the perspective that they bring and understand that just because it's not your perspective and not how you look at things; they're not wrong compared to you being right. You have to build relationships. And as a doctor seeing a patient, yes, you have a doctor-patient relationship. This is very different.
The third category is what so interesting. And it took me a while to figure this out. And here's an example, as you approach communications with a patient, you give them the information, they gather what it is you want to explain to them and that is the essence of your communications. When you enter into a relationship in a leadership situation, we don't apply that same thoughtfulness about communications. We'll say a word like independent and you know what it means and the person saying it knows what it means, but if you were talking to a patient, you would ask them more questions.
Well, what does that mean to you? How does it feel to you? Describe when that happens? The problem is when we go into a physician as a leader situation, we assume everybody knows what the words mean. And that gets us into a lot of trouble. So, there's some interesting distinctions between being a physician with skills and a leader with skills.
Host: And Doctor, how does one go about developing these required skills to be a successful leader? How do they leatn them?
Dr. Nichols: Well, every organization that you belong to particularly, ACOI has been excellent in this, understands that it's very important for our physicians to be leaders. So, there are programs, there are certificates. There are degrees that are out there for physicians. I try to avail myself of every kind of training opportunity that comes along because you can always learn more. There are a lots of training opportunities out there. Of course, I would recommend my book because it's kind of a summary of the literature that's out there and the points that are important for physicians to learn, there are plenty of other ways to learn how to be a leader.
Host: So, what unique challenges face physicians as they look to develop these goals?
Dr. Nichols: That is really the essence of the question. Physicians are so educated. And we have been trained, certified, re-educated, retrained, recertified for 12, 16 plus years that we know how to be physicians very well. And we sometimes slip into the assumption that all of that training and education is fungible or exactly translates into the way that you do it in leadership. And as I've pointed out, it's not. That's the biggest challenge is to understand how we have been trained to take care of patients is not 100% applicable and effective in the way that you need to be a leader.
Host: So, are there any final thoughts you'd like to leave our listeners with on this topic?
Dr. Nichols: I think the fact that people are giving consideration to being a leader outside of the physician-patient relationship is the most critical message that I want to get across. Physicians bring an unparalleled experience in the physician-patient relationship, realm. Nobody else has that depth of education and can utilize it to benefit patients.
So, we've got to put that in play in helping move the health systems forward, the governmental approaches to healthcare forward; physicians have to be at the table and they have to be effective leaders at the table.
Host: It's been a pleasure, Dr. Nichols, what a fascinating topic. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us.
Dr. Nichols: Thank you and appreciate your questions and your thoughtfulness.
Host: Check out our website at www.acoi.org and be sure to follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter. Thank you for spending a little time with us today. If you're interested to learn more about Dr. Nichols' lessons in leadership, her book; Physician Leadership, the 11 Skills, Every Doctor Needs to Be An Effective Leader is This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. and where other books are sold.
We look forward to future podcasts where we will continue to explore issues of importance to you. For additional information, please contact the ACOI directly at 1-800-327-5183. Or by visiting our website at www.acoi.org. You can also email us at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. Until next time, be well.