We've all heard there are ingredients in wine—specifically red wine—that can help protect us from heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimer's and more. But to realize those benefits we'd have to drink an unhealthy amount of wine.
Listen in as Dr. Jesse Corry, a neurologist from Allina Health, with the John Nasseff Neuroscience Specialty Clinic in St. Paul, discusses a possible new pill that would provide many of the benefits of red wine -- without actually drinking any wine.
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The Benefits Of Red Wine—In A Pill?
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Learn more about Jesse Corry, MD
Jesse Corry, MD - Critical care/ Neurology
Jesse Corry, MD, is board certified in critical care and neurology. His clinical interest is in the stroke continuum of care. When not caring for patients, Dr. Corry enjoys hiking, running, cooking and attending Metallica concerts. He considers himself an expert in viniculture having worked in his father’s bars and brewing beer for years.Learn more about Jesse Corry, MD
Transcription:
The Benefits Of Red Wine—In A Pill?
Melanie Cole (Host): We've all heard there are ingredients in wine, specifically red wine, that can help protect us from heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimer's, and more. But to realize those benefits, we'd have to drink an unhealthy amount of wine. My guest today is Dr. Jesse Corry. He's a neurologist with Allina Health and the John Nassif Neuroscience Specialty Clinic in St. Paul. Welcome to the show, Dr. Corry. So, first tell us about red wine and what is it in the red wine that's so good for us?
Dr. Jesse Corry (Guest): Well, first, thanks for having me, Melanie. Well, red wine, there seems to be kind of a triple threat in red wine that's good for us. The alcohol itself in red wine may be beneficial in preventing, you know, heart disease and those sort of things. There are antioxidants in the form of flavonoids, which are these kind of chemicals found in many fruits and vegetables and what we're talking about today, the compound resveratrol.
Melanie: Okay, well, so speak about resveratrol because--and we'll get into the flavonoids or antioxidants--is that because of the grapes or the fermentation, or a combination?
Dr. Corry: Mainly because of the skin of the grapes. A lot of the flavonoids and resveratrol, which is a little bit different, it's a polyphenyl, but they're in higher concentrations in the skin of the grapes. And so, wines that have lots of skin in them, so red wines in particular, those wines will have a higher concentration of these compounds. And, the resveratrol, it seems to be having a number of effects that seem beneficial for us: everything from reducing inflammation to preventing, hopefully, diabetes, to preventing Alzheimer's.
Melanie: How does resveratrol actually work?
Dr. Corry: Okay. Well, it seems that there's a number of things that it does. One of the first things we know is that resveratrol makes the body more sensitive to insulin. By being more sensitive to insulin, we're less prone to things like diabetes. Resveratrol also seems to do a really good job at helping with wound healing and helping the body kind of clean up injured cells better than normally. And, it also helps reduce inflammation. It helps the body not make the little binding proteins that tell white blood cells what was causing inflammation where to go and it kind of you know, suppresses a lot of the immune responses that will result in hardening of the arteries and inflammation. And, lastly, resveratrol also seems to do a great job of helping those bad cholesterol numbers be better; to help reduce that LDL concentration. So, in sum, it really kind of reduces the products that will cause the atherosclerosis.
Melanie: Let's talk about inflammation for a minute. As we hear more and more about inflammation, Cortisol, the effects on not just joints and muscles, but our heart and our arteries, as you say. So, inflammation is causing so many of these diseases and now they even test for it. So, how is resveratrol helping with the inflammation? What is it doing?
Dr. Corry: Okay. So, what inflammation is doing is that the cells get injured. There are two parts to the cell that we worry about: kind of the coating of cell, the membrane, as well as the DNA. And, what'll happen when the body becomes inflamed is, those white blood cells will kind of come in there and it'll make a bunch of compounds. This will then can cause more collateral damage. So, what resveratrol does, it kind of, first of all, acts like a low-grade antioxidant. So, it basically helps protect that membrane and the DNA in the cell from getting injured in the first place. The next thing it does is, it tells the cells, “Don't make those proteins so much that cause the white blood cells which are going to cause more inflammation from kind of getting into the cell,” and, finally, what it does is, it helps by doing a better job of cleaning up the cells. So, when the cells are looking like they're injured, the resveratrol kind of helps promote the healing of these cells as well as going ahead and if the cell's beyond the point where it can't really get fixed, the body has a process called “programmed cell death” where the cells kind of become absorbed by the body. And, what resveratrol does is, it kind of helps improve that recycling of injured cells.
Melanie: How much resveratrol typically is in one glass of wine?
Dr. Corry: About a half a milligram. So, as you were saying earlier in the segment, you'd need to drink almost 300 bottles of red wine in order to equal the amount that we study in you know, in these clinical studies.
Melanie: So, tell us about the pill. What is the pill, the red wine pill?
Dr. Corry: So, there's right now, a couple of different labs in the world that are looking at ways of improving the potency of this resveratrol. First what they're looking to do in a lab in, I believe it's in Jupiter, Florida, they're looking to slow the metabolism of resveratrol. When resveratrol is in the body, it gets metabolized very quickly. So, if you can slow that metabolism, the resveratrol could be in the body a lot longer and thus do the things we want it to do better. There's another lab looking at actually other compounds in red wine, this lab's in Milan, Italy, and this is looking to see that while we know that there are certain compounds in wine that help the resveratrol stay in the body a little while longer. So, they're looking to see what are those extra compounds that could kind of potentiate this effect. And lastly, there's a group that right now at the University of New South Wales in Australia that's looking to really you know make the resveratrol even more potent. So, they're trying to, that when the resveratrol gets in the body, to really maximize that 'bang for the buck', so to say.
Melanie: Are you talking about a specific red wine pill, or are there so many on the market, how do we know which ones to buy?
Dr. Corry: Okay, well, and that's a great question. Right now, there's a number of supplements. Now the first problem, when you have a supplement, is they don't have the same stringent, testing that goes through for medications. So, for a supplement, they don't really have to have the Phase One, the Phase Two; these trials to show safety and efficacy. And so, right now, all the available resveratrol compounds aren't tested in that way. The tests that have been done with the available supplements that are out there, have demonstrated that, frankly, they don't really help improve a person's necessarily quality of life, or reduce the rates of diabetes, atherosclerosis, what have you. So, they haven't been proved to be of any benefit yet. So, what these labs across the world are doing, they're looking to say, “Okay, how can we make a compound that's able to deliver resveratrol better to the body? And then, once we show that that can be done, let's now go and study this effect in various populations to see, okay, does it reduce the instance of diabetes? Does it reduce the instance of Alzheimer's? Does it reduce the instance of atherosclerosis and it's complications?
Melanie: So, do people have to take this pill every day? Do you just take one? Are there certain people that shouldn't be taking it?
Dr. Corry: Great question. I mean, right now, because we don't have a really good supplement out there or a really good medication out there that we really can truly say this group should take this or that group should take this. Right now, with these different labs that are testing different formulations, they're first trying to find a formulation that would work. And then, they would need to go through the studies to say, okay, we know this population who has diabetes should take this medication, or this population that has a high risk of heart disease should take this medication. So, that question really hasn't been asked yet. What we can say is, that people say, “Hey, I've read about this, I want to have resveratrol as part of my diet,” a glass of red wine a day, chocolates, berries, these are all compounds that have resveratrol in them and you can try to you know, supplement your diet naturally with these compounds.
Melanie: Well, you jumped ahead, too, because I was going to ask where else can we find resveratrol. But, if we're only getting about a half a milligram in a glass of red wine, then people might think more is better, so what do you want them to know about drinking in moderation?
Dr. Corry: I think the key is moderation is important. We do know that excessive alcohol intake does you know affect, not just population, but individuals. You drink more alcohol, you actually make more inflammation. So, you know even though the alcohol and resveratrol in one may reduce inflammation, beyond a certain threshold, you're actually making matters worse. You're actually increasing the risk of heart disease and stroke. So, it's important that people, if they want to have their resveratrol to come from red wine, they should do so with only about two glasses of red wine a day for men and one for women.
Melanie: And, just finish it off with your best advice about resveratrol, the new pill, all the ones on the market, and buyer beware. What do you want the listeners to know about this possible new great pill?
Dr. Corry: I think that, you know, it really looks like it could be something fantastic, but we don't have the data yet, so there's a lot of hope out there. I would say, you know, the take home message is “all things in moderation.” Wine's great. If you like to drink it, fabulous. Drink in moderation. If you're not a wine drinker, but you want to try to obtain some of these healthy effects, I would recommend berries, peanuts, good, dark chocolate. Those are great things that a person can get this resveratrol from. But, the important thing to remind folks is that not just resveratrol, but all over-the-counter supplements--these are typically compounds that are not as well studied or have to have the rigorous study for them that goes for the medications we have to get prescribed like statins, blood pressure medications, etc.
Melanie: Thank you so much for being with us. What great information. What a fascinating topic, too, Dr. Corry. You're listening to The Well Cast with Allina Health and for more information, you can go to www.allinahealth.org. That's www.allinahealth.org. This is Melanie Cole, thanks so much for listening.
The Benefits Of Red Wine—In A Pill?
Melanie Cole (Host): We've all heard there are ingredients in wine, specifically red wine, that can help protect us from heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimer's, and more. But to realize those benefits, we'd have to drink an unhealthy amount of wine. My guest today is Dr. Jesse Corry. He's a neurologist with Allina Health and the John Nassif Neuroscience Specialty Clinic in St. Paul. Welcome to the show, Dr. Corry. So, first tell us about red wine and what is it in the red wine that's so good for us?
Dr. Jesse Corry (Guest): Well, first, thanks for having me, Melanie. Well, red wine, there seems to be kind of a triple threat in red wine that's good for us. The alcohol itself in red wine may be beneficial in preventing, you know, heart disease and those sort of things. There are antioxidants in the form of flavonoids, which are these kind of chemicals found in many fruits and vegetables and what we're talking about today, the compound resveratrol.
Melanie: Okay, well, so speak about resveratrol because--and we'll get into the flavonoids or antioxidants--is that because of the grapes or the fermentation, or a combination?
Dr. Corry: Mainly because of the skin of the grapes. A lot of the flavonoids and resveratrol, which is a little bit different, it's a polyphenyl, but they're in higher concentrations in the skin of the grapes. And so, wines that have lots of skin in them, so red wines in particular, those wines will have a higher concentration of these compounds. And, the resveratrol, it seems to be having a number of effects that seem beneficial for us: everything from reducing inflammation to preventing, hopefully, diabetes, to preventing Alzheimer's.
Melanie: How does resveratrol actually work?
Dr. Corry: Okay. Well, it seems that there's a number of things that it does. One of the first things we know is that resveratrol makes the body more sensitive to insulin. By being more sensitive to insulin, we're less prone to things like diabetes. Resveratrol also seems to do a really good job at helping with wound healing and helping the body kind of clean up injured cells better than normally. And, it also helps reduce inflammation. It helps the body not make the little binding proteins that tell white blood cells what was causing inflammation where to go and it kind of you know, suppresses a lot of the immune responses that will result in hardening of the arteries and inflammation. And, lastly, resveratrol also seems to do a great job of helping those bad cholesterol numbers be better; to help reduce that LDL concentration. So, in sum, it really kind of reduces the products that will cause the atherosclerosis.
Melanie: Let's talk about inflammation for a minute. As we hear more and more about inflammation, Cortisol, the effects on not just joints and muscles, but our heart and our arteries, as you say. So, inflammation is causing so many of these diseases and now they even test for it. So, how is resveratrol helping with the inflammation? What is it doing?
Dr. Corry: Okay. So, what inflammation is doing is that the cells get injured. There are two parts to the cell that we worry about: kind of the coating of cell, the membrane, as well as the DNA. And, what'll happen when the body becomes inflamed is, those white blood cells will kind of come in there and it'll make a bunch of compounds. This will then can cause more collateral damage. So, what resveratrol does, it kind of, first of all, acts like a low-grade antioxidant. So, it basically helps protect that membrane and the DNA in the cell from getting injured in the first place. The next thing it does is, it tells the cells, “Don't make those proteins so much that cause the white blood cells which are going to cause more inflammation from kind of getting into the cell,” and, finally, what it does is, it helps by doing a better job of cleaning up the cells. So, when the cells are looking like they're injured, the resveratrol kind of helps promote the healing of these cells as well as going ahead and if the cell's beyond the point where it can't really get fixed, the body has a process called “programmed cell death” where the cells kind of become absorbed by the body. And, what resveratrol does is, it kind of helps improve that recycling of injured cells.
Melanie: How much resveratrol typically is in one glass of wine?
Dr. Corry: About a half a milligram. So, as you were saying earlier in the segment, you'd need to drink almost 300 bottles of red wine in order to equal the amount that we study in you know, in these clinical studies.
Melanie: So, tell us about the pill. What is the pill, the red wine pill?
Dr. Corry: So, there's right now, a couple of different labs in the world that are looking at ways of improving the potency of this resveratrol. First what they're looking to do in a lab in, I believe it's in Jupiter, Florida, they're looking to slow the metabolism of resveratrol. When resveratrol is in the body, it gets metabolized very quickly. So, if you can slow that metabolism, the resveratrol could be in the body a lot longer and thus do the things we want it to do better. There's another lab looking at actually other compounds in red wine, this lab's in Milan, Italy, and this is looking to see that while we know that there are certain compounds in wine that help the resveratrol stay in the body a little while longer. So, they're looking to see what are those extra compounds that could kind of potentiate this effect. And lastly, there's a group that right now at the University of New South Wales in Australia that's looking to really you know make the resveratrol even more potent. So, they're trying to, that when the resveratrol gets in the body, to really maximize that 'bang for the buck', so to say.
Melanie: Are you talking about a specific red wine pill, or are there so many on the market, how do we know which ones to buy?
Dr. Corry: Okay, well, and that's a great question. Right now, there's a number of supplements. Now the first problem, when you have a supplement, is they don't have the same stringent, testing that goes through for medications. So, for a supplement, they don't really have to have the Phase One, the Phase Two; these trials to show safety and efficacy. And so, right now, all the available resveratrol compounds aren't tested in that way. The tests that have been done with the available supplements that are out there, have demonstrated that, frankly, they don't really help improve a person's necessarily quality of life, or reduce the rates of diabetes, atherosclerosis, what have you. So, they haven't been proved to be of any benefit yet. So, what these labs across the world are doing, they're looking to say, “Okay, how can we make a compound that's able to deliver resveratrol better to the body? And then, once we show that that can be done, let's now go and study this effect in various populations to see, okay, does it reduce the instance of diabetes? Does it reduce the instance of Alzheimer's? Does it reduce the instance of atherosclerosis and it's complications?
Melanie: So, do people have to take this pill every day? Do you just take one? Are there certain people that shouldn't be taking it?
Dr. Corry: Great question. I mean, right now, because we don't have a really good supplement out there or a really good medication out there that we really can truly say this group should take this or that group should take this. Right now, with these different labs that are testing different formulations, they're first trying to find a formulation that would work. And then, they would need to go through the studies to say, okay, we know this population who has diabetes should take this medication, or this population that has a high risk of heart disease should take this medication. So, that question really hasn't been asked yet. What we can say is, that people say, “Hey, I've read about this, I want to have resveratrol as part of my diet,” a glass of red wine a day, chocolates, berries, these are all compounds that have resveratrol in them and you can try to you know, supplement your diet naturally with these compounds.
Melanie: Well, you jumped ahead, too, because I was going to ask where else can we find resveratrol. But, if we're only getting about a half a milligram in a glass of red wine, then people might think more is better, so what do you want them to know about drinking in moderation?
Dr. Corry: I think the key is moderation is important. We do know that excessive alcohol intake does you know affect, not just population, but individuals. You drink more alcohol, you actually make more inflammation. So, you know even though the alcohol and resveratrol in one may reduce inflammation, beyond a certain threshold, you're actually making matters worse. You're actually increasing the risk of heart disease and stroke. So, it's important that people, if they want to have their resveratrol to come from red wine, they should do so with only about two glasses of red wine a day for men and one for women.
Melanie: And, just finish it off with your best advice about resveratrol, the new pill, all the ones on the market, and buyer beware. What do you want the listeners to know about this possible new great pill?
Dr. Corry: I think that, you know, it really looks like it could be something fantastic, but we don't have the data yet, so there's a lot of hope out there. I would say, you know, the take home message is “all things in moderation.” Wine's great. If you like to drink it, fabulous. Drink in moderation. If you're not a wine drinker, but you want to try to obtain some of these healthy effects, I would recommend berries, peanuts, good, dark chocolate. Those are great things that a person can get this resveratrol from. But, the important thing to remind folks is that not just resveratrol, but all over-the-counter supplements--these are typically compounds that are not as well studied or have to have the rigorous study for them that goes for the medications we have to get prescribed like statins, blood pressure medications, etc.
Melanie: Thank you so much for being with us. What great information. What a fascinating topic, too, Dr. Corry. You're listening to The Well Cast with Allina Health and for more information, you can go to www.allinahealth.org. That's www.allinahealth.org. This is Melanie Cole, thanks so much for listening.