Scientists have known for some time the teen brain is wired to produce reward signals in response to irresponsible or dangerous behaviors. And while parents may not like these risky behaviors, a new study says it’s the same brain process that also helps teens be better learners, too.
Dr. Jesse Corry, neurologist with Allina Health’s United Hospital in St. Paul is here with more information on the unique and often misunderstood teenage brain.
Your Brain 101: The Process Of The Teenage Brain
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Learn more about Jesse Corry, MD
Jesse Corry, MD
Jesse Corry, MD, is board certified in critical care and neurology, and serves as a neurologist at Allina Health’s United Hospital in St. Paul. His clinical interest is in the stroke continuum of care.Learn more about Jesse Corry, MD
Transcription:
Your Brain 101: The Process Of The Teenage Brain
Melanie Cole (Host): Scientists have known for some time that the teen brain is wired to produce reward signals in response to irresponsible or dangerous behaviors and while parents may not like these risky behaviors, a new study says it’s the same brain process that also helps teens be better learners. My guest today is Dr. Jesse Corry. He’s a neurologist with Allina Health’s United Hospital in Saint Paul. Welcome to the show, Dr. Corry. The teen brain, still under construction as the NIH says. Tell us about this study. Tell us about what is going on with this unfinished brain that our teens have.
Dr. Jesse Corry (Guest): Thanks for having me, Melanie. This is a great study. We’ve all seen – from our own personal experience, from other studies -- that teens engage in a lot of risky behavior. What the folks in this study here did, they looked actually at how the brain – what were the parts of the brain that were interacting during a memory process. They wanted to see what parts of the brain are interacting and what mechanisms really excite those parts of the brain. What they found is that teens brains are really geared towards the outcome. For the teens, it’s the destination, not necessarily the journey that’s important.
When you look at -- how do we want to reinforce – what reinforces those pathways, those behaviors, it’s getting positive feedback. The teen brain really isn’t so keen to remembering negative feedback. It doesn’t necessarily just look at the risks of doing things; it’s looking at the outcome and the more positive feedback the brain gets, the more it’s going to remember these things. What they were looking at was a type of memory called episodic memory, or that autobiographical memory we have. This is kind of like the – think of it as the memory that’s always with us, that story of our lives. If they’re always getting positive feedback, that’s what they’re really going to respond to.
Melanie: It is absolutely a fascinating topic. The electrical business that’s going on in those teen brains, Dr. Corry, is that different than adults because I’ve heard – especially like when you’re teaching your teens to drive -- that you cannot be yelling at them, “Hey, look out! Look out for this!” Those electrical conductions actually make it uncomfortable for them to hear you yelling and try to concentrate on driving at the same time.
Dr. Corry: I completely agree with that. There’s a story – my folks took me to a cemetery to learn to drive. When I was driving in there, yeah, the negative feedback, “See what happens if you do dumb things?” didn’t really help. It just made me more nervous. When we look at how the teen brain is wired, the connections between the parts of the brain called the striatum that helps with reward, and the parts of the brain that help with memory, the hippocampus, these are really strongly interconnected in the teenage brain. They’re connected in the adult brain, but not as much. In the adult brain, we see – again, we tend to have more of an understanding of both the carrot and the stick. We like a reward, we like the outcome, but also like not having bad things happen to us, so our brains learn by trial-and-error, by appreciating the negative consequences and the positive consequences. The teen brain is very heavily wired for a new experience, for learning on the positive feedback, the positive reward they get. The danger in that, though, is that the teens may not be savvy enough to know if that quote-unquote positive reward – is it really a good thing or a bad thing?
Melanie: So what are we supposed to do as parents? All of this comes down to – because there’s also certain instances with teen brain and substance abuse, where it actually has more of an effect than it would on say a thirty-something who’s smoking marijuana or drinking versus a 15- or 16-year-old that’s doing these things. What are parents supposed to do about this teen brain? We can’t just keep giving positive reinforcement all of the time?
Dr. Corry: No, no --
Melanie: Sometimes they need to hear shame and discipline and boundaries.
Dr. Corry: Yeah, and this study is great. It gives us the neuroanatomy of what’s going on here, but they don’t necessarily address what to do with this. I think as physicians we have to start putting this into a bigger context – okay, what can we learn? I think you’re absolutely right. First of all, kids need to learn about the negative consequences. Eventually, that teenage brain will become an adult brain, so they’ll need to be exposed to there’s a good and a bad to things. A lot of this research is really applicable to addiction studies and to addiction medicine. One of the things that I take when I read this is that, okay, the teenagers are going to look for that positive reinforcement. Where do they get it from? Yeah, it’s important that we give a nurturing environment for kids, that we expose them to positive behaviors for positive things. What I also take away from this is that it’s important to really provide new experiences for the teens, to give them – you always remember when you were younger, your parents would say, “We need to get you into sports, get you a job, keep you out of trouble,” and I think that’s actually really sagely advice. I think if teens are given more new experiences they’re going to seek rewards in those new experiences, no necessarily seek a reward or they may find it where it may not be a healthy behavior.
Melanie: That’s absolutely true. As a parent of a gymnast, I see that, and I know that – I’ve heard before bored teenagers are the ones that tend to get into drugs and alcohol?
Dr. Corry: Absolutely.
Melanie: So we’ve learned that we do need to watch – get them involved, keep them involved in teams and sports and things so that they are focusing on these other things. What else can we do about this teen brain to keep them from – I mean even if we do have to discipline them, Dr. Corry, sometimes they shut down. You can see it.
Dr. Corry: Yeah, absolutely. When I read this, I was thinking, “Okay, what are things I can do with my kids – and my kids are just a little before teens -- but things like trying to keep things – surprise the kids. Keep things new and exciting. I think that what we’ve seen is that the parts of the brain that help with reward and memory -- especially when we were younger, but even as we get older -- are very tightly linked. I think doing positive things, positive rewards for your kids that may surprise them, that’s a good way to keep their focus on good things, like things like family and sports and stuff, and less have their minds wander to oh, let me try this thing, or that thing, which may not be good for them.
I think definitely parents should still say, “We definitely need to have discipline. There definitely needs to be consequences.” Again, as a parent, you try to mold that adolescent brain into a sound adult brain, so it may be one of those things where it’s not fun -- the kids may not be early on necessarily listening to those [LAUGHS] consequences, but over time hopefully, this will start to reinforce the development of a more well-rounded ability to take in information, a more well-rounded learning style.
Melanie: So Dr. Corry, things that we should watch out for, because I’ve also read that mental disorders, many of them, the symptoms first emerge during adolescence and young adulthood, so as parents while this brain is growing and we’re trying to be positive and surprise them and get them involved in things, and not overwhelm that teenage brain, we also need to watch out for some of these red flags, yes?
Dr. Corry: Yeah, especially things like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, some of these things you typically do see start at later adolescence, particularly in men, so I think it’s really important for family members to start to notice if there’s sudden changes in the behavior of their teen. A teen who is normally really gregarious and outgoing, now becomes more isolated, if they start having irregular thoughts, starting to have really repetitive behaviors – putting their shoes a certain way all the time, or doing certain stereotype movements before an activity, or what have you, these are things a family should look for. I think, always look to about the culture around that son or daughter. If you notice that the people around that son and daughter are changing, or the clothes on that son or daughter are changing, that should be another red flag that something here may be amiss. Either the child potentially could be having problems with their own psychiatric health, or maybe running in with a different crowd.
Melanie: Okay so we need to definitely keep our eye on all of these things, so wrap it up for us, Dr. Corry, because this is such an interesting topic for parents to hear because sometimes as parents – and you and I both know this – that you don’t always understand why your kid is shutting down, or you don’t always understand why they scream back at you, or can’t handle when you’re screaming at them because you feel like you want to scream at them because you’re a parent, and they don’t understand it, and that goes back and forth and creates that lack of communication. So wrap this up for us with your best advice about dealing with that teen brain as it’s part of the body of our beloved little teenagers.
Dr. Corry: Yes, what I take from the study here is this. The young brain is geared towards the outcome and that it likes positive reinforcement so when I want to reinforce good behaviors in my kid, I remind them of the good outcome. I reward the positive actions and tend to turn a blind eye to some of those negative things. When it comes to – they have to learn consequences, and so I think always being mindful of that when there are examples of bad behavior or examples of bad choice, discussing with my kid, keeping the lines of communication open. They may not listen now. They may not listen the tenth time, but maybe the hundredth time they’ll start listening. My hope is that while this study teaches me how to teach my kid better, I hope just by being an aggressive, nosey parent [LAUGHS], that my child will, over time, become a really wise and well-rounded adult.
Melanie: Great information and such great advice. Thank you, so much, Dr. Corry. I love this series that we’re doing about the human brain. Absolutely fascinating. You’re listening to The Well Cast with Allina Health, and for more information, you can go to AllinaHealth.org, that’s AllinaHealth.org. This is Melanie Cole. Thanks, so much, for listening.
Your Brain 101: The Process Of The Teenage Brain
Melanie Cole (Host): Scientists have known for some time that the teen brain is wired to produce reward signals in response to irresponsible or dangerous behaviors and while parents may not like these risky behaviors, a new study says it’s the same brain process that also helps teens be better learners. My guest today is Dr. Jesse Corry. He’s a neurologist with Allina Health’s United Hospital in Saint Paul. Welcome to the show, Dr. Corry. The teen brain, still under construction as the NIH says. Tell us about this study. Tell us about what is going on with this unfinished brain that our teens have.
Dr. Jesse Corry (Guest): Thanks for having me, Melanie. This is a great study. We’ve all seen – from our own personal experience, from other studies -- that teens engage in a lot of risky behavior. What the folks in this study here did, they looked actually at how the brain – what were the parts of the brain that were interacting during a memory process. They wanted to see what parts of the brain are interacting and what mechanisms really excite those parts of the brain. What they found is that teens brains are really geared towards the outcome. For the teens, it’s the destination, not necessarily the journey that’s important.
When you look at -- how do we want to reinforce – what reinforces those pathways, those behaviors, it’s getting positive feedback. The teen brain really isn’t so keen to remembering negative feedback. It doesn’t necessarily just look at the risks of doing things; it’s looking at the outcome and the more positive feedback the brain gets, the more it’s going to remember these things. What they were looking at was a type of memory called episodic memory, or that autobiographical memory we have. This is kind of like the – think of it as the memory that’s always with us, that story of our lives. If they’re always getting positive feedback, that’s what they’re really going to respond to.
Melanie: It is absolutely a fascinating topic. The electrical business that’s going on in those teen brains, Dr. Corry, is that different than adults because I’ve heard – especially like when you’re teaching your teens to drive -- that you cannot be yelling at them, “Hey, look out! Look out for this!” Those electrical conductions actually make it uncomfortable for them to hear you yelling and try to concentrate on driving at the same time.
Dr. Corry: I completely agree with that. There’s a story – my folks took me to a cemetery to learn to drive. When I was driving in there, yeah, the negative feedback, “See what happens if you do dumb things?” didn’t really help. It just made me more nervous. When we look at how the teen brain is wired, the connections between the parts of the brain called the striatum that helps with reward, and the parts of the brain that help with memory, the hippocampus, these are really strongly interconnected in the teenage brain. They’re connected in the adult brain, but not as much. In the adult brain, we see – again, we tend to have more of an understanding of both the carrot and the stick. We like a reward, we like the outcome, but also like not having bad things happen to us, so our brains learn by trial-and-error, by appreciating the negative consequences and the positive consequences. The teen brain is very heavily wired for a new experience, for learning on the positive feedback, the positive reward they get. The danger in that, though, is that the teens may not be savvy enough to know if that quote-unquote positive reward – is it really a good thing or a bad thing?
Melanie: So what are we supposed to do as parents? All of this comes down to – because there’s also certain instances with teen brain and substance abuse, where it actually has more of an effect than it would on say a thirty-something who’s smoking marijuana or drinking versus a 15- or 16-year-old that’s doing these things. What are parents supposed to do about this teen brain? We can’t just keep giving positive reinforcement all of the time?
Dr. Corry: No, no --
Melanie: Sometimes they need to hear shame and discipline and boundaries.
Dr. Corry: Yeah, and this study is great. It gives us the neuroanatomy of what’s going on here, but they don’t necessarily address what to do with this. I think as physicians we have to start putting this into a bigger context – okay, what can we learn? I think you’re absolutely right. First of all, kids need to learn about the negative consequences. Eventually, that teenage brain will become an adult brain, so they’ll need to be exposed to there’s a good and a bad to things. A lot of this research is really applicable to addiction studies and to addiction medicine. One of the things that I take when I read this is that, okay, the teenagers are going to look for that positive reinforcement. Where do they get it from? Yeah, it’s important that we give a nurturing environment for kids, that we expose them to positive behaviors for positive things. What I also take away from this is that it’s important to really provide new experiences for the teens, to give them – you always remember when you were younger, your parents would say, “We need to get you into sports, get you a job, keep you out of trouble,” and I think that’s actually really sagely advice. I think if teens are given more new experiences they’re going to seek rewards in those new experiences, no necessarily seek a reward or they may find it where it may not be a healthy behavior.
Melanie: That’s absolutely true. As a parent of a gymnast, I see that, and I know that – I’ve heard before bored teenagers are the ones that tend to get into drugs and alcohol?
Dr. Corry: Absolutely.
Melanie: So we’ve learned that we do need to watch – get them involved, keep them involved in teams and sports and things so that they are focusing on these other things. What else can we do about this teen brain to keep them from – I mean even if we do have to discipline them, Dr. Corry, sometimes they shut down. You can see it.
Dr. Corry: Yeah, absolutely. When I read this, I was thinking, “Okay, what are things I can do with my kids – and my kids are just a little before teens -- but things like trying to keep things – surprise the kids. Keep things new and exciting. I think that what we’ve seen is that the parts of the brain that help with reward and memory -- especially when we were younger, but even as we get older -- are very tightly linked. I think doing positive things, positive rewards for your kids that may surprise them, that’s a good way to keep their focus on good things, like things like family and sports and stuff, and less have their minds wander to oh, let me try this thing, or that thing, which may not be good for them.
I think definitely parents should still say, “We definitely need to have discipline. There definitely needs to be consequences.” Again, as a parent, you try to mold that adolescent brain into a sound adult brain, so it may be one of those things where it’s not fun -- the kids may not be early on necessarily listening to those [LAUGHS] consequences, but over time hopefully, this will start to reinforce the development of a more well-rounded ability to take in information, a more well-rounded learning style.
Melanie: So Dr. Corry, things that we should watch out for, because I’ve also read that mental disorders, many of them, the symptoms first emerge during adolescence and young adulthood, so as parents while this brain is growing and we’re trying to be positive and surprise them and get them involved in things, and not overwhelm that teenage brain, we also need to watch out for some of these red flags, yes?
Dr. Corry: Yeah, especially things like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, some of these things you typically do see start at later adolescence, particularly in men, so I think it’s really important for family members to start to notice if there’s sudden changes in the behavior of their teen. A teen who is normally really gregarious and outgoing, now becomes more isolated, if they start having irregular thoughts, starting to have really repetitive behaviors – putting their shoes a certain way all the time, or doing certain stereotype movements before an activity, or what have you, these are things a family should look for. I think, always look to about the culture around that son or daughter. If you notice that the people around that son and daughter are changing, or the clothes on that son or daughter are changing, that should be another red flag that something here may be amiss. Either the child potentially could be having problems with their own psychiatric health, or maybe running in with a different crowd.
Melanie: Okay so we need to definitely keep our eye on all of these things, so wrap it up for us, Dr. Corry, because this is such an interesting topic for parents to hear because sometimes as parents – and you and I both know this – that you don’t always understand why your kid is shutting down, or you don’t always understand why they scream back at you, or can’t handle when you’re screaming at them because you feel like you want to scream at them because you’re a parent, and they don’t understand it, and that goes back and forth and creates that lack of communication. So wrap this up for us with your best advice about dealing with that teen brain as it’s part of the body of our beloved little teenagers.
Dr. Corry: Yes, what I take from the study here is this. The young brain is geared towards the outcome and that it likes positive reinforcement so when I want to reinforce good behaviors in my kid, I remind them of the good outcome. I reward the positive actions and tend to turn a blind eye to some of those negative things. When it comes to – they have to learn consequences, and so I think always being mindful of that when there are examples of bad behavior or examples of bad choice, discussing with my kid, keeping the lines of communication open. They may not listen now. They may not listen the tenth time, but maybe the hundredth time they’ll start listening. My hope is that while this study teaches me how to teach my kid better, I hope just by being an aggressive, nosey parent [LAUGHS], that my child will, over time, become a really wise and well-rounded adult.
Melanie: Great information and such great advice. Thank you, so much, Dr. Corry. I love this series that we’re doing about the human brain. Absolutely fascinating. You’re listening to The Well Cast with Allina Health, and for more information, you can go to AllinaHealth.org, that’s AllinaHealth.org. This is Melanie Cole. Thanks, so much, for listening.