Bill Klaproth (host): This is Today in Nursing Leadership, a podcast from the American Organization for Nursing Leadership. I'm Bill Klaproth. And with me is Joel Arriolacolmenares. He is the Administrator of the Office of Public Health Nursing Services at South Dakota Department of Health. And we also have Shannon Muchow, Nurse Manager with the Office of Public Health Nursing Services for South Dakota Department of Health, as we talk about transition to nurse manager practice exploring how South Dakota is building tomorrow's nurse leaders through their Transition to Practice journey. Shannon and Joel, welcome.

Shannon Muchow: Hey, Bill. Thank you so much for having us. We're very excited to be here with you today.

Joel Arriolacolmenares: Yeah. Thank you, Bill. It's our pleasure to be here.

Host: Yeah, great to talk to both of you and find out what's going on at South Dakota. We love it. So, Shannon, let me start with you. What inspired your organization to select the Transition to Practice program or TTP, and what outcomes were you hoping to achieve?

Shannon Muchow: What had initially inspired us to select the TTP was we had recently launched our nursing governance council and public health nursing services, and we had identified a need for training that was geared towards today's nurse leaders, and we felt like the AONL program met a lot of those needs for us. We liked that it was designed to assist new nurse leaders with professional development that use evidence-based content.

The TTP also focused on key concepts that would allow ourselves and our staff to build knowledge, competencies and competence that supported our current public health managers as well as our field staff that we had selected to be on our nursing governance council.

As a manager, I feel like this course has really allowed me to build upon my current leadership skills as well as to share my experiences with others. It's allowed me to also take some time to do some self-evaluation to identify opportunities for myself and for those that are in the course to kind of identify ways that they can grow themselves, both personally and professionally. The course has really been beneficial as we are trying to establish more of a formal training platform for our staff as we kind of move forward with onboarding our nursing governance council. It definitely helps to support the development of our staff and the direction in which we're going.

I kind of feel like, as far as for our nurses, it's been an interesting experience for them, I would say, because a lot of the concepts that they're talking about in the course, they haven't necessarily been exposed to because it's outside of their normal day to day. So, that's been great, pushing them outside of their boundaries a little bit and thinking through some of those challenges that you may face in that leadership role. So, I think that's been really wonderful for them to be able to have that. It's also helping to prepare them to help us build a stronger workforce as well. So ultimately, I feel like our outcome that we're hoping to achieve here is just to help us to build a stronger workforce and to strengthen our structure even more with the public health nursing services.

Joel Arriolacolmenares: No, that's perfect. Shannon brings up some excellent points here. I came to the organization a few years ago, external to the agency, and I observed that we had a fragmented approach to the leadership development. And we weren't doing the best job that we could with developing our workforce to meet the needs in those leadership roles and capacities.

So when we looked at what can we source or where can we go to turn to for this body of knowledge that we're seeking, the AONL was a natural fit. And the fact that they had a course that's already been designed by industry experts to help meet some of those leadership needs for a new manager was a no brainer for us to align and partner and source this content, so that we can get this development in front of our nurse managers.

I think ultimately the outcome that we're looking to achieve is to build, because we have multiple folks in this course, not just our formal HR-designated nurse managers. We also have our nursing governance council in this course. And we plan to implement it into our long-term strategy in terms of the nurses that we put in this course as we build that leadership bench in the future, not only for the NGC Council pipeline, but also for like our nurse team leads and our formal nursing manager positions.

 What we hope to achieve is just expanding their perspectives to take them out of their frontline mentality, to expose them to the content of what a manager's role needs to deal with, has to deal with, is dealing with in that actual capacity and get those collateral perspectives from the frontline staff all the way through our managers. And I think the more overlap we have in perspective, the more synergistically that we can work.

So, to summarize, I think the overall outcome that we're looking to achieve is just to expand those collateral relationships between our frontline staff, our governance council, and our managers so that we can work more efficiently together.

Host: Well, expanding perspectives is always important. So, thank you for sharing that, Joel. And then, as Shannon said, building a stronger nursing workforce is always important. I'm so happy that the program is working for you. So, Joel, let me ask you this, how did you approach implementing TTP and what made it successful in your particular setting?

Joel Arriolacolmenares: Right now, we're in the midst of having our first cohort go through the course right now. I think what made it easy to implement was just the facilitation from the staff, from Alysia at the AONL, Their willingness to answer our questions around the content, the delivery, and implementing it. Right now, I think they're in their third session out of five, I believe. And We're already getting a lot of positive feedback on the perspective-enhancing that it's doing for some of our nurses who have never been in any other role other than a frontline nursing perspective. And now, they're bridging into that leadership development with their participation on our nurse governance council.

Also, from our tenured managers, we've gotten a lot of good feedback about different aspects of that nurse manager role that they maybe weren't exposed to in the past or have factored into their developmental needs that we now are clearly taking some steps to articulate what those needs are and how we can meet them.

So, I know it's going to be a success, because we are going to get that increased perspective from our managers and our staff serving on the governance council. So, we look forward to actually getting that data back from the post assessments also, and have that documented. But, Shannon, anything that you can think of from your perspective on that one?

Shannon Muchow: Yeah, I would agree with Joel. It definitely has helped to increase their perspective and definitely opening them up to the new concepts and pushing them outside their comfort zone, which is always great because that's the only way that we're going to learn is to get a little uncomfortable sometimes, right?

So, many of them, like Joel had shared, was we've gotten really great positive feedback from them attending the course. They've really enjoyed the content and the discussions and being able to learn from other leaders in the industry, I think, is really important. The other thing that I feel like that has made this very successful for us in our setting is that we definitely are making this a deliberate effort and allowing them the time to be able to complete the course to equip them with the skills so they can be successful in their roles as we're kind of helping to support them as building them as leaders.

So, I think the other thing that's really been helpful too is that we definitely have very supportive leadership that's supporting the vision and the direction that we're going in public health nursing. And that has made a huge difference with helping us to implement this change, and as we're building our capacity and helping to bring on more trainings for our staff for professional development.

Host: Well, supportive leadership, always very, very important. So, you mentioned that you're getting positive feedback, Shannon. Let me ask you this, any other results or positive improvements that you've observed within your teams or organizations since completing TTP facilitation?

Shannon Muchow: So, I mean, we're definitely seeing some changes in our staff like day to day as far as feeling more empowered and competent to tackle some things that sometimes they would've not been maybe so willing to take on some of those things and they're being more deliberate, like, understanding the bigger picture, asking the great questions that they need to know to understand that, as you're a leader, you have to evaluate your whole structure, right? So when you're implementing changes, like what does that look like? How does that ripple effect happen? Is it going up? Is it going down? Where is it going? So, I think that's been a nice outcome that we've been seeing already, is them just kind of being able to understand like, "Hey, yeah, we want to make change just as badly as you do, but change takes time." And so, I think that's helped too in them kind of understanding as a leader, you have to evaluate everything, not just one task, but how and where does that task impact other individuals within our organization, our clients, our staff in the programs.

Host: Right. So then, Joel, let me ask you this, what key insights or lessons from your experience would you share with other organizations considering this program?

Joel Arriolacolmenares: I would say don't hesitate to look into the content. And don't be afraid to take it on and bring it on, and put it in front of your staff. For us, public health is a very unique environment. And I know that the course is mainly geared towards the hospital industry, inpatient setting. But there's a lot of lessons that are very relevant that translate across sectors. So, no matter where you're operating as a nurse or as a nurse manager or as a nurse leader, whether formally or informally, the lessons and the content, the spirit of those things apply in multiple settings.

So to me, you're never going to find a one-size-fits-all sort of situation where everything's spelled out for you. And I think sometimes, in nursing, we can be a little bit prescriptive and wanting an exact answer to an exact question or we want the question framed out. And as I've learned in 20 years of management and leadership is that everything is often just great and ill-defined. So, this content I think is very translatable regardless of your setting, whether it's acute care, inpatient or, in our case, public health, it applies. So, don't be afraid to source it, take it. And we did have that disclaimer with the staff where we said, "Hey, not everything's going to be relevant to you. Not everything's going to apply, but you can take the core themes and elements out of it and think about how it could apply or how it can equip you to deal with some of the situations that we deal with in our unique setting.

Host: So, don't hesitate. You just gotta do it. I like it. That's a good message. So Shannon, how do you see TTP contributing to your future nurse leader development strategy?

Shannon Muchow: Yeah. We definitely foresee that TTP will continue to support our nursing leadership development within public health nursing services. The course has a lot of great content within it to support current leaders as well as those that are aspiring to be in leadership roles. And oftentimes, that's kind of a struggle that we have found. You know what I mean? It's how do we support our nurse leaders as they transition to these new roles? So, this course definitely has value to it, to help with that transition from that frontline nurse to that nurse manager. These are definitely separate skills, and it does take time to build those skills. And oftentimes, most of us, myself, to just say that quite frankly is we got these roles through promotional opportunities, you know what I mean? And oftentimes, we just don't get that opportunity to build those skills as a manager. And you're kind of learning those as you go along, which is great. A lot of times we learn quite a bit through failure, but we like to have more wins than failures. So, it's definitely sometimes a learning curve. So, this definitely helps to support that learning that we need to do as leaders.

As far as what I've really enjoyed as far as the course goes is just being able to reflect on my own personal and professional goals as a leader, and then developing myself to identify those opportunities for growth. I think that's always important for people to do some of that self-reflection, and that's why one of the things that I like about this course, so I feel like it's something that we'll continue to use. Joel, do you have anything more to add to that?

Joel Arriolacolmenares: I think you hit it spot on. it is going to be a continual part of our strategy. The content's vetted, curated by an organization that we can trust. And we know that the topics, the themes will be always well-aligned. And sometimes, you just need that continuity and that ability to continue to develop that bench of leaders. So for us, it's going to be a long-term part of our strategy, not only for our formal managers, but also for our nursing governance council to sit in on this training and also for those aspiring to serve on the council, or those aspiring to be a formal leader or even those that we identify in our own succession planning efforts as folks that have the capability or the skillset to succeed as a manager in the future, even though it may not be immediately due to, you know, organizational design and constraints there with the actual structures, and what vacancies we may have. But I think the development that they would get from the course also helps fill that satisfaction that an employee gets from knowing that the organization willing to invest in them. So, we definitely see the TTP and the AONL as being part of our embedded future nurse leader development strategy for the foreseeable future.

Host: Well, I want to thank you both for this great discussion about the TTP program. Before we end, I'd love to get final thoughts from each of you. Shannon, how about you? Anything else you'd like to add?

Shannon Muchow: I will just say exactly what Joel had mentioned. You know what I mean? Don't hesitate to. develop your leaders because it is really important that you make this intentional and not something that you're just kind of trying to do on the side, because oftentimes there's never going to be a perfect time, but it is really important to support your leadership staff and your leaders in the organization so they can grow the skills that they need, because that'll only make your organization and your workforce that much stronger.

Joel Arriolacolmenares: I think you're spot on also there. I feel, as leaders, we owe it to the staff as nursing leaders to make sure that they're prepared to step into those roles. We shouldn't wait until they have to step into the role to then watch them flounder and then come in with strategies to shore them up after we've clearly seen where they're struggling. We should preemptively know that a great nurse doesn't always necessarily translate to a great manager. But there's no reason why you can't prepare them ahead of time. Often a great nurse will be selected based on their clinical skills or their bedside manner, or their just performance as a nurse. But as you know, when you step into management, it is a whole different ballgame. There's a people aspect, there's a financial aspect of it. I think that's sometimes where we failed our workforce in the past is by not preemptively putting some sort of safeguard or some sort of development in their path to make that transition a little bit smoother. They're not going to be always a hundred percent equipped, but you can kind of help mitigate some of those bumps that we've learned ourselves through the course of forced development when you have to step into a role, or when you've been assigned a role, because we didn't think about this aspect beforehand.

So, I would definitely say, you know, be more proactive with it. For us, that's something that in public health we're trying to be more intentional with is making sure that the workforce is prepared to meet those future needs. And one thing that we joke around with is that the only thing that we can guarantee for the future is that change will be present and change will be constant. So, how do you prepare someone to deal with change? I think it's being a little bit more deliberate with their skillset, with their development and making sure that they're more resilient or that they're equipped and have a good toolbox to pull from when they're faced with those challenges in the immediate future.

Host: Really good thoughts, Joel. You're right. Great nurses don't always make great nurse managers. That's why you have to train them. So really good thoughts on that. Joel, is there anything else you want to add before we wrap up?

Joel Arriolacolmenares: I would, again, encourage anyone interested in leadership development, if you don't want to reinvent the wheel. I think this is a great course that covers a lot of content that is very translatable in any setting that you can draw on the core knowledge from, to help equip your managers and your workforce to help you those needs from an organizational perspective.

So yeah, I would definitely encourage folks to reach out to the contacts. And if they have any questions, you know, definitely don't be afraid to ask. That's how we started was just with a lot of question asking and looking to see what could meet our need and we are very grateful that we found an organization that has this need already framed out and that we can take it and apply it in our context in public health.

Host: Yep. Very well said. Well, Shannon and Joel, thank you very much for your time today. I really appreciate it. Thank you again.

Shannon Muchow: Yeah. Appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Joel Arriolacolmenares: Thank you, Bill.

Host: You bet. And once again, that is Joel Arriolacolmenares and Shannon Muchow. And contact Alysia Adams, Director of Education Partnerships at AONL, to explore how this program can support your nurse leaders. And if you found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and check out the full podcast library for topics of interest to you. This is Today in Nursing leadership. Thanks for listening.