​

Bill Klaproth (Host): This is Today in Nursing Leadership, a podcast from the American Organization for Nursing Leadership. I'm Bill Klaproth, and with me is Kim Landers, Chief Nurse Executive at Morris Hospital, and Elizabeth Menschner, CEO, Pennsylvania Organization of Nurse Leaders, as we talk about developing digitally competent nurse leaders and awareness of trends, challenges, and barriers for digital transformation.

Kim and Elizabeth, welcome.

Kim Landers, MS, RN, CENP, FACHE: Thanks, Bill. Thanks for having us today.

Elizabeth Menschner, DNP, MAS, RN, NEA-BC: Hey Bill, it's really great to be here. Thank you.

Host: You bet. Great to talk with both of you. Kim, let me start with you, just as a brief refresher, what inspired the development of the new six guiding principles and how did they shape the approach to digital transformation?

Kim Landers, MS, RN, CENP, FACHE: Oh, we are so excited to roll out those guiding principles. Equipping nurse leaders with necessary skills to support and lead digital transformation is just vital for us in our world and enhancing outcomes for patients and nurses and other caregivers caregivers was really the impetus for our guiding principles.

Host: So Kim, let me ask you this. What do you believe have been the most significant outcomes from the introduction of the new six guiding principles?

Kim Landers, MS, RN, CENP, FACHE: So I think overall there was an overall readiness and awareness of the six guiding principles. So they were embraced from the beginning and they were designed to be used. Everyone is at different stages of readiness, and so we've gotten just an overwhelming adoption of the guiding principles, and so that's been the most significant outcome.They've just been adopted so quickly.

Host: Well, that's a nice feeling when things like that do get adopted quickly and assimilated into the process. Liz, let me ask you a question. In your experience then, how important is it for nurse leaders to secure a formal seat at the executive table when talking about digital transformation?

Elizabeth Menschner, DNP, MAS, RN, NEA-BC: So it's absolutely essential, and this was a common theme in the nurse leader interviews that we conducted, and securing a voice was one of the top items that they discussed. So without a formal seat, whether it's in IT governance, digital strategy, or even AI oversight, nursing ends up reacting to technology rather than shaping it.

So when nursing isn't represented at the decision making level, systems tend to be designed for nurses and not with them. So having that in that seat really ensures the decisions reflect patient safety, workflow realities, and the lived experience of care delivery.

Host: I like that line, how you said that in the past it was designed for nurses, not with nurses. That's a big difference. So that really makes sense how, this process has evolved and these new six guiding principles probably have been accepted so easily. Kim, what advice do you have then for nurse leaders struggling with developing digitally competent nurses?

Kim Landers, MS, RN, CENP, FACHE: Well, we all continue to struggle and, it is top of mind and one of our top missions is to develop nurse leaders at our digitally competent. So there's actually two things. Number one, assess our readiness and look at the barriers. What are the barriers, whether they're educational or foundational.

And find champions. Find nurses who are interested and have some initial knowledge and find some small wins. Also assess, your change readiness and find some change management tools and your cultural adaption. Build some informatics pathways that align with not only your nurse leaders' behaviors, but your staff's behaviors and some workflows.

That's the first thing. The second thing is make awareness that it's AI, digital transformation, informatics, technology, whatever we want to call it. It's not going to replace nursing jobs. I think that is out there a little bit. And we need to teach our nursing profession that technology is going to enhance our productivity, decrease our burnout, and we have to transform our roles and embrace technology that it's going to, help our patients' outcomes and not replace nursing jobs.

And I think that is, something nurses struggle with and we have to overcome that.

Host: Yeah, I think that's really well said. So Liz, knowing what Kim just said, what strategies have you found effective in ensuring that the nursing perspective is prioritized in technology selection and policy?

Elizabeth Menschner, DNP, MAS, RN, NEA-BC: So there are really three strategies that, actually came through, the interviews; governance, structure and evidence-based advocacy. So first, again, I can't emphasize enough about having a formal voice in technology governance, such as voting seats on IT committees, AI and analytics councils.

Second, great success has been shown when organizations adopt a standardized evaluation framework that require all proposed technologies to demonstrate measurable impact on patient safety, efficiency, and interoperability before moving forward. Thirdly, financial and scholarly accountability really elevates nursing's credibility.

Nurse leaders are increasingly developing evidence-based business cases that tie digital initiatives directly to an ROI, workforce retention and quality outcomes. And then that really reframes nursing as a strategic partner in technology investment, not a cost center reacting to change.

Host: So I'm going to shift gears just a little bit. Let me ask you about the interviews, Kim. What themes in the interviews were most surprising for AONL to hear about and what are some of the next steps with those themes?

Kim Landers, MS, RN, CENP, FACHE: Well, as Liz just said, those were some of the big themes that we heard. I don't know that we were surprised by any of the themes. I think we were surprised by how there are times where the decisions are being made without nursing at the table. I think we are surprised by what, maybe not surprised by, but overwhelmed by what a high level of interest the nurse leaders have on digital transformation. I mean, it is on everyone's strategic radar, and it is one of their top priorities. Everyone, every nurse leader we spoke to, every nurse exec we spoke to, every nurse educator, we spoke to, they are looking for resources, toolkits, education, micro learning, sources of information on this topic.

So that was an overwhelming scene. And everyone's struggling with vendors truly, and in no disrespect, but every vendor over promises, under delivers at times these fixes and doesn't maybe have the sophistication that we're looking for. And so we need to continue to work together to find those patient and customer technology transformations that serve our patients, whether that's about secure communications, the EHR, ambient listening, surveillance, and monitoring. We have to work together for the voice of the customer or the voice of the patient to continue to find those solutions and not just accept maybe what a vendor delivers, and those are probably the next steps. Also, AONL will continue to work with all of our other key partners through ANI, HIMS, AMIA and all the vendors to find those solutions together. And so those are really some of the next steps for us as we continue to go through this evolution.

Host: That's great. And then Liz, can you share some insights from the leader interviews on the challenges nurse leaders face in bridging the language barrier between clinicians and analytics teams?

Elizabeth Menschner, DNP, MAS, RN, NEA-BC: Sure. So we found in almost every interview, translation gap came up. Clinicians really think in terms of patient context and workflow, why something happened, while the analytics team are thinking in terms of data elements, algorithms and model performance. So for nurse leaders, it's not the lack of willingness, it's just a difference in vocabulary and perspective.

So the most successful leaders are those that learn to speak in both languages. They're building their own data literacy, introducing frameworks like the five rights of clinical Decision Support and creating translator roles, nurse informatics or analytics liaisons, and they're the ones that bridge that gap between technical data and clinical meaning.

When those translation bridges exist, data moves from being abstract into actionable, and teams start solving problems instead of talking past each other.

Host: Yeah, that's an interesting point you made, the most effective nurse leaders speak in both languages. So really important to try to understand both sides of this. And then Liz, cultural change is often cited as the biggest barrier to digital transformation. So how can nurse leaders effectively coach staff through behavior changes? And, how do they do that?

Elizabeth Menschner, DNP, MAS, RN, NEA-BC: So recognizing that culture is absolutely the hardest part of any digital transformation is much harder than the technology itself. So the most effective leaders are the ones that act as coaches, not just as implementers. They start with open transparency explaining what the technology does, how data will be used, and what safeguards in place.

And as Kim mentioned earlier, it really isn't to replace nurses. It's really to help them function in a higher level and work to the top of their licenses. Then these leaders can focus on engagement with building trust through small, meaningful interactions. And I've really seen leaders, again, use that micro learning as Kim talked about, simulations, real time coaching to really help staff see how AI can enhance and really not replace their clinical judgement. And again, it's also important to involve nurses early in the testing and the feedback. So when they see that their input shapes the tool, their confidence grows, and then over time they start shifting and not looking at just another system that we have to use. It's a tool that really actually helps them do their job better.

And so that's really when the transformation begins to take hold.

Host: So they feel empowered and like you said, they feel like they have a seat at the table and their voice is being heard. Is that right?

Elizabeth Menschner, DNP, MAS, RN, NEA-BC: Yes.

Host: Yeah. Love it. Well, this has been great. I love talking about this as AONL is so proactive and making sure our nurse leaders are ready for the future. So I think this is really good. I would love to get perspectives from each of you before we wrap up the interview. Kim, let me start with you. Is there anything else you want to add?

Kim Landers, MS, RN, CENP, FACHE: Well, I think, this is just such the beginning. We are just on the cusp of everything that we need to do, not only as nurse leaders, but in healthcare, and certainly as part of AONL's leadership in our digital transformation journey. We're going to take the results of not only our key work on the LIT committee, but with these interviews and these themes, and take these initial guiding principles and develop these competencies and continue to build on this work and develop more core competencies, develop more education and knowledge and learning so that we can be a forefront in digital transformation for AONL and for nurse leaders because this is what people are very interested in.

Host: Yeah, that makes sense. And I think that's very, very well said, Kim. Thank you so much for that. Liz, how about you? Any final thoughts?

Elizabeth Menschner, DNP, MAS, RN, NEA-BC: So I think really the differentiator here is nursing leadership. So the ability to connect people, data, and, purpose. The leaders who are succeeding aren't really the most technical leaders, but they're the most translational. They help teams understand actually the why to behind the change. They build trust in the process and really ensure that technology truly serves the mission of patient-centered care.

Host: Yeah, I think that's well said. Connecting people, data and purpose. That makes a lot of sense. Well, Kim and Liz, thank you so much for your time today. We appreciate it.

Kim Landers, MS, RN, CENP, FACHE: Thank you.

Elizabeth Menschner, DNP, MAS, RN, NEA-BC: Thank you.

Host: You bet. And once again, that's Kim Landers and Elizabeth Menschner. For more information, you can visit aonl.org. And if you found this podcast, please share it on your social channel.

And check out the full podcast library for topics of interest to you. You can find those podcasts at aonl.org/nursing-leadership-podcast. This is Today in Nursing leadership. Thanks for listening.