Bill Klaproth (Host): This is today in Nursing Leadership, a podcast from the American Organization for Nursing Leadership.

I'm Bill Klaproth. And with me is Amber Baber, Clinical Nurse Educator Lead, transition to Nurse Manager Program; Kaitlynn Thurman, Senior Director, Clinical Development and Simulation. We also have Kat Holmes system, Chief Nurse Officer, and Tamra Tracy, Manager, Nurse Leader Programs, all at Sutter Health.

Thank you all for being here. I appreciate it. Kat, let me start with you. So, take us back to the beginning. What inspired the decision to bring TTP to Sutter Health and what excites you most about investing in your nurse leaders in this way?

Kat Holmes, RN, BSN, MHA: Well, first, Bill, thank you from all of us and at Sutter Health, we really appreciate the opportunity to talk about our incredible program. I think, as I take us back, we have amazing leaders in our organization. But one area that we really saw an area of needed improvement was really our nurse manager program. And as many in the audience will know, is that most of the times we don't actually train our nurse managers. They kind of become a manager through default. It was really a passion project of mine that I really wanted to see, and little did I know it was also a passion project of Kaitlynn's. And so together along with AONL and the program that the entire team put together, we were able to bring that program to life at Sutter Health.

Host: Absolutely. So, we've done several podcasts and we talked about how we elevate star nurses to nurse leaders. And we don't really give them the training that they need to really flourish and be successful in that position. So, Kaitlynn, let me ask you this. When you think about bringing TTP into Sutter Health, what did it take to make it feel like part of the leadership journey?

Kaitlynn Thurman, MS, RN, CCRN: Yeah. Thanks for the question. I think one of the things that was really important to us from the beginning was taking the AONL Program and knowing that it's evidence-based. It's a competency model, and that is a really amazing foundation. But we always knew when we brought it in-house, we wanted to add Sutter Health, operational tools and resources into the program so that it really was applicable, not only the foundation that was built off of the AONL program, but really making it applicable to our frontline leaders. So, the team did a really great job incorporating that when we brought the program in-house.

I think the other thing that the team did a really great job at doing is we are part of, within Sutter Health, an entity called Sutter Health University. That's our learning and development arm of our organization. So, we support executive development, leadership development, professional development and then, my team, clinical development and simulation. So, this team, Tamra and Amber, did a really great job at working with the other leadership development programs and taking a look at what already existed, knowing that, again, this is for a transition to nurse manager. So, it's a very specific program, but how do we fit that in all of the other professional development opportunities we have in the organization? And they have a great synergy and partnership with those programs as well. So, a nurse leader could take our program for transitioning into a management role, but then they also support them in ongoing professional development through some of those other programs. So, really making it fit in that whole ecosystem of professional development that we support in the organization.

Host: And I'm sure that really does pay dividends as well.

Kaitlynn Thurman, MS, RN, CCRN: Yeah, absolutely.

Host: So Amber, let me ask you then, what have you seen or heard from participants that made you pause and think, "Wow, this is working. This is making a difference?"

Amber Baber, MBA, MSN, RN: Well, thank you. So many stories come to my head. We've launched our program pretty relatively quickly in July, and we finished four cohorts, by the end of beginning of this year, and we're launching six for 2026. So, so many stories. But the one that really stood out to me, we have a twice-a-year management meeting where all the leaders come, the system meet in-person, great networking opportunity, and our participants sought out each other to take photos to check in with each other, so that networking that they didn't have before. And this is across areas from Lakeside to Sacramento to Roseville, they've created this network of support that they never had. They felt in the beginning, they felt like they were alone, and now they're not anymore, because they have this network of supports. So, that really just made my heart happy scanning the crowd and seeing them run and hug and take those pictures together.

Host: Yeah, it makes my heart happy too. I love it. So, I mean, it proves that it's working. You said people felt like they were kind of alone before, but now they're not. It's always better to be learning in a group or feel like you've got other people to go through things with. So, that's really, really cool. Tamra, let me bring you into this. So, let me ask you this. What moment or story has impacted you the most through Sutter's Nurse Leader Transition to Practice Program?

Tamra Tracy, BSN, RN, CEN, CPEN, TNCC: Well, just like Amber, there are so many moments. , I could go on and on about so many impactful moments and people that have come into our life because of this program. I also am so thrilled just that we are on the cutting-edge of having something like this, a transition to nurse manager program. Like Kat said, most nurses just get handed the keys to their office and they're expected to just do it.

But if I had to pick one particular moment, I mean, there's so many. I think I'm going to go with the one where we had a participant. And she was really feeling low about her leadership and feeling like she really wanted to leave the profession, maybe even retire. And she came into the program and she was kind of one of those people that you were wondering, "Is this going to really be beneficial for her? Because she seemed like she had already made up her mind that leadership was not for her.

So anyway, during the first session, she expressed her concern about what she was doing and if it was really the right thing. And I remember as she went through session, we have six sessions and all the different training and how she, like Amber said, had relationships with other people and had support. By the end of the program, she decided that she loved being a leader. She was excited about her future. She was excited about working with her director. And it was a complete turnaround for her. So, it was just a really huge success story.

Host: It's good to see that happen in real-time like that. Do you have other stories at all about nurse leaders showing up differently and in a different way after going through the program?

Tamra Tracy, BSN, RN, CEN, CPEN, TNCC: I do. I do. I can think of one in particular where we had a participant, he was an ED manager, and he came to the program thinking like, "Oh, I don't need this program." And he kind of even postured, you know, that he came to program kind of slouched down in his seat and didn't feel like he was going to participate in the program.

But he ended up, again, a huge turnaround where he started engaging and realizing that there were people that felt the same way that he did. And by the end of the program, he was one of our biggest advocates. And he even sent some of his leadership to us after that for subsequent programs.

Host: So, I think it's fair to say training nurse leaders really pays off, right?

Tamra Tracy, BSN, RN, CEN, CPEN, TNCC: Yes, absolutely. And you four have definitely shown that. Well, this has been great. I want to go around the table here and ask each of you to get your thoughts on this question. Kat, I'm going to start with you. Looking back on this journey together, what are you most proud of? And for someone listening to this podcast right now, what would you share with other organizations thinking about investing in their nurse leaders the way that you have?

Kat Holmes, RN, BSN, MHA: Thanks for the question. First of all, I'm so proud of the work that was done. I'm proud of how our managers came in and, while apprehensive at first, really bought into the program, wanted to know more and, at the end of it, what I'm proud about is the results.

Being able to be equipped to teach people, to lead people, to understand finance, to be able to do the daily work that's asked of our teams, and to have a resource that they don't have to find. We brought it to them to learn. You cannot say enough about keeping leaders and developing leaders. And anyone out there who's thinking about this program, it's a must for us to continue the pipeline of leaders into our organizations. If we don't, they won't be there in five years. And we will see, as our senior leaders and our chief nurse execs leave the organization, we will not have the ability to backfill. This program is essential for the growth of every leader in nursing that you have in your organization.

Host: I look how you're looking ahead and thinking about that pipeline and how we have to fill the pipe. This is a must. We must do this and continue to train our nurse leaders.

Kat Holmes, RN, BSN, MHA: Absolutely.

Host: So great thoughts, Kat. Thank you for that. Kaitlynn, how about you? How about thoughts on the journey? And what would you share to someone listening who's thinking about starting this as well?

Kaitlynn Thurman, MS, RN, CCRN: I think I would just echo what Kat said. I'm so proud of this team. Without going into the details, they had a very short runway to execute on this. And they've done a phenomenal job. And my piece of advice would be to really, again, AONL's content, evidence-based, based on the nurse leader competencies, but to do similar to what they did.

Consider taking this in-house, if you have, you know, the size of an organization to support that. They've really shown that by adding, again, those organizational tools. And making it really applicable that it's a model that our leaders are really enjoying and it's really sitting incredibly well with them.

And we're seeing the outcomes not only in the testimonials that they're giving us. But also in looking at pre and post assessment of burnout scores and other metrics that we're collecting with the program. So, just hugely proud of this team and what they've been able to accomplish and the impact that they had that Kat said, it's really going to be a ripple effect in setting up our organization for succession planning and longer term success.

Host: Yeah. So, consider taking it in-house, right? You can do it. I love it. Amber, how about you?

Amber Baber, MBA, MSN, RN: I think when I am most proud of this journey is to be able to nurture our leaders. I feel like sometimes our leaders aren't the ones getting nurturing. You're nurturing your teams. But you sometimes get left in the dust and they need the nurturing and love so badly, and it's so needed.

We have this one activity called the Circle Way. And so, we sit in a circle and everybody gets a talking piece. And we have a question that's a prompt to them to answer. And usually, every session, everybody gets emotional. And we just have that vulnerability and the safe space where they don't get to do that anywhere else.

So, I think that's what I am most proud of. So, I definitely encourage any organization to definitely look into having a program like this to support their leaders, because you're going to retain your leaders and they're going to feel proud to work at the organization, because they feel like they can be themselves and authentic and have that trust.

Host: Yeah. I love the words you use. Who doesn't want to work in that environment? When you talk about nurturing and love?

Amber Baber, MBA, MSN, RN: Yeah.

Host: I mean, that's where really people can thrive, right? When you talk about healthy work environments, that's really what it is. So, thank you for sharing that.

Amber Baber, MBA, MSN, RN: Yeah, of course.

Host: Tamra, how about you?

Tamra Tracy, BSN, RN, CEN, CPEN, TNCC: I think they said everything, but if I had to wrap it up and tie it in a pretty bow...

Host: Yes.

Tamra Tracy, BSN, RN, CEN, CPEN, TNCC: I would say that this program is transformative. And that it is changing leaders' lives in a way that I've never experienced before and I've been in leadership for over 30 years. And I can see the difference that this program is making, and I can see it in huge ways.

I'm excited to see what the data's going to show in the next year. When we see our leadership retention, we've already have a higher retention than the national average. So, it's about 2.8% are leaving instead of up to 14%. So, again, I can't express to you how important this program is. And again, bringing it in-house, having face-to-face relationships, having fun, laughing, gaming together, all of it is just making a huge difference. And it's all because of support of leaders.

Host: Well, great job, all of you. Your work really shows and we need more of it. So hopefully, this podcast can help spread that awareness. So, great job, Sutter Health team. Nice work.

Kat Holmes, RN, BSN, MHA: Absolutely.

Kaitlynn Thurman, MS, RN, CCRN: Thank you.

Host: This was awesome. Thank you so much for stopping by the podcast booth. We appreciate it today. So, thank you again.

Kat Holmes, RN, BSN, MHA: Thank you.

Kaitlynn Thurman, MS, RN, CCRN: Thank you.

Host: Absolutely.

Once again, that's Amber Baber. We have Kaitlynn Thurman, Kat Holmes, and Tamra Tracy. Thank you again, ladies. This has been great. And if you found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and check out the full podcast library for topics of interest to you at aonl.org/nursing-leadership-podcast. This is Today in Nursing Leadership. Thanks for listening.