Bill Klaproth (Host): This is Today in Nursing Leadership, a podcast from the American Organization for Nursing Leadership.

I'm Bill Klaproth, and with me is Dr. Justin Bala-Hampton chief nursing officer, senior principal nurse executive at Accenture, as we'll be discussing AI-powered nursing transformation and its Scalable impact across care. Justin, welcome.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: Thanks Bill. I am super stoked to be here today.

Host: I'm stoked to have you here.

This is going to be great. I can just tell already This is going to be a great interview.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: Yeah, and I'm like, and I like how I had to use Stoked for my fellow like elder millennials such as myself.

Host: I love it. All right so let's start with this Justin. Everyone talks about AI in healthcare. But what problem is it actually solving for nurses today?

Clue us in?

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: So the whole thing with AI is everyone's like, oh no, I'm going to get replaced. Right? And that's not the case. It's more so of how we can use AI as a tool, like as if you are getting instructions in IKEA and trying to build something, right? You might not build it correctly right away, but over time as AI.

Scales and you get to know it. You learn how to build it better, And that circles back to, what can I do for a nurse? Right? It could help you become more efficient and spend more time with What we are trained to do is that end product of that patient. So any sort of technology that's evolving and innovating for nursing ultimately has a goal of helping not only the provider that's providing the care, but the person that's getting the care.

Host: So ultimately. We need to use it as a tool for better care, better outcomes. Right? It's not going to replace a ton of things, but as a tool to assist in care, it's well positioned for that.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: Yeah. And I, I always want you to think of like, when you think ai, there's no replacement. It's the human is always going to be in the center, and you're always going to need to be the one that actually goes back and forth in terms of the criticality, in terms of thinking, but it's giving you aspects of, did you think about asking this if you're in a predicament?

Did you look at this? Am I, uh, are you getting predictive analytics to actually help anticipate an emergency or anticipate, uh, a specific injury that that patient might incur during their stay?

Host: So, it, it really is useful in that way, kind of as a, Hey, did you think about this? You might want to consider this as, an oh, yeah, okay.

That might be something I can use. So then how do you distinguish AI that. Maybe just makes nurses faster from AI that actually improves patient outcomes.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: So you look at the different types of predictive analytics that that's out there. So you could create dashboards and from a nurse leadership standpoint, you get these dashboards that can show you the acuity of the patient, um, And the complexity of these patients because these patients that are coming in are getting more and more sicker. So when you look at those analytics. Then you could learn how to staff appropriately and, and have a skilled staffing mix where you're using your CNAs, you're using your LPNs, you're using your RNs in different capacities based on their, their skill assessment.

But when you are also looking at intelligent documentation, ambient listening to kind of help offset. Different types of administrative burden that often nurses do. I know when I was working at Bedside, I would spend 30, 45 minutes after a shift trying to finish up all my charting, and I would be off the clock—with my air quotes going on right now—just to try to finish that.

But what Intelligent Documentation is doing is allowing you to get all those pertinents into the system and. The ambient listening is to actually like, do that work for you while you're doing care. And with any tool, kind of going back to That is learning how to use it. So a lot of people are afraid of ambient listening because it's, you can't just attach some sort of tech or attach like a listening device to you and, and voila, like, you know, have a Harry Potter wand moment and it fixes everything.

It doesn't work like that. You have to learn how to use it. And use it effectively. And so that means as nurses, we have to learn new skills to be tech savvy in that standpoint, to be better efficient in this environment.

Host: Well, even if it can save you that off-the-time clock, that's a big savings. Right?

That's a help.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: Right. And so there was a, uh, a case that I've seen in a couple healthcare systems where they went from a pilot to a maturity stage in like 18 months. And at the end of the day, nurses are spending on, on average like 27 to 30% of their time just documenting in a day. So imagine that on a daily basis.

Then you have intelligent documentation and different types of AI metrics and automation along with it. During this maturation process between 12 and 18 months, they saved an additional like eight hours. In, in a week. Imagine what you can do with eight hours in a week.

Host: That's real-time.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: And so at the end of the day, I always like to say to my nurses and, And for myself as a practicing nurse practitioner, is that time is everything.

Time is with your family. Time is extra time with your patients Time is doing stuff that you could do other than having to, I like to mention click by death, you know, creating more. Um, more additional work in terms of administrative stuff that's like, that's done. You could actually do what you want to do and enjoy it.

Host: So let me ask you this question. You might be the perfect person to ask. What does scaling nursing care really mean And what does it not mean?

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: So scaling nursing care, what does it not mean? I'm going to address that. It doesn't mean we're cutting FTEs. There's no cutting FTEs because you know, you get those conversations where you, you talk with chief financial officers and there's no offense with them.

They're doing their job. But once I say in terms of a return on investment, it could help. You know, protect the reduction of eight hours a day. And you know, the first thing that could, could potentially come to the CFO's head is, oh, that's less FTEs that we need. No, no, no, no, no. We're not talking about that.

We want you to keep the FTEs, but utilize those FTEs properly. That's how you scale correctly. When you scale with innovation, it's, you're scaling it to the point, it's more specific to that institution, to that unit. And how it's going to work at the end user, which is that nurse That is going to be using that technology day in and day out.

And so what might look at this hospital system might have similarities at an adjacent hospital system 10 miles down the road, but they work a little bit differently, but their end game is exactly the same. Mm-hmm.

Host: Okay. That makes sense. So. I'm wondering if there is a potential danger here. How do you measure nursing performance in an AI-enabled model without incentivizing unsafe speed or volume?

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: So I would just say in terms of that, I would keep the metrics the way that they are. You're just actually just using a tool. So why would you differentiate or add something new in terms of efficiency? I say keep your metrics, but evolve it. With what you're doing, right, evolve your metrics to how much quality that patient is is having now, or is their experience better?

Is your experience as a nurse better? Does this help you? Do you enjoy working with this type of tooling versus being frustrated with it and like just leaving? And That is like I could go and talk ad nauseum is, that's what I'm seeing in the field is these young nurses are getting so burnt out. They're gone and they're, you're losing these systems or losing like their attrition and their investment in these nurses.

So what can you do differently that speaks to them And that allows them to embrace talent. And then that goes into another conversation that we could have another time—the generational chasm. As I like to say, between how each generation accepts and implements and absorbs tech.

Host: Well, it seems like Gen Z millennial nurses would be way open more to using AI and understanding how to use it effectively.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: Right. But then you question like, I always question this because I've gotten that too. Like, you know you have the gen alphas that are coming in now. Right. They Don't know anything outside of tech. Like that's their norm.

Host: That's their norm.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: And then you have the Gen Zs, that's their norm. And then you have millennials such as myself, I like to say I'm an elder millennial, um, where, because like I learned on a typewriter And then moved to keyboarding You were around before Facebook?

Yes. I'm a zillennial so like I was, Facebook for me was when you had to be in college to get a Facebook account.

Host: Okay.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: And then you have Gen Xs and like the boomers that are out there, um, and still practicing. And so we look at those, and it just depends on how you want to change.

And it goes back to that quintessential, when we are on paper And we transition from paper to electronic health records, everyone, all the nurses put their arms up. We're never going to do this. It's not going to be great. And guess what? It's here. We're using it on a daily basis. And then, you know, I'm going to also plug for me is that.

If you are not part of the conversation—because AI is here, AI is not leaving—if you're not part of the conversation, if you're not at the table, then like, what are you doing? Because if you don't like this change, you need to be at that table. So why not get to the table? Because you're going to have someone make the decision for you.

And now you're going to be forced to learn a tool that you didn't want to learn in the beginning because you didn't have a say in it.

Host: Yeah. So that old saying, right, if you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu,

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: right?

Host: So you got to have a seat at the table. You want your voice to be heard. You want to have a voice in this process,

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: right?

From, from bedside to charge to unit director, from e uh, like, you know, executive director to CNO You want your, you want to make that change. And the only way you can make that change is if you actually say something and if you get a no. So what. Try again. You go on a committee position, it create something like a different perspective.

And what's great about our field in nursing is we want evidence And we want proof. But guess who also likes that? CFO COO They want evidence, they want numbers, they want all of this. And if you could show that to your business proposal, maybe something can change.

Host: Yeah, that makes sense. And I'm old enough to remember.

Make that change as a lyric from a Michael Jackson song.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: Yes.

Host: I believe it was Man in the Mirror. So I'm old enough for that.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: And hey, I remember that on MTV.

Bill Klaproth (Host): Even though you're a zillennial

Host: do you remember that?

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: Yes.

Host: Okay.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: Oh, I mean, like downtown Julie Brown, Wubba Wubba Come on now.

Host: Come on now.

Oh my goodness.

All right so what guardrails are essential to make sure AI supports nursing practice rather than eroding trust or professional autonomy?

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: An AI governance. So if you don't have the AI governance, you need to do that. Those are the guardrails, Those are the parameters that you need to, to have and to know if something happens, like an error or anything like that, or something within the technology is not.

Working properly. You have a physical person that could respond to that and you have protocols within your governance to enable that change.

Host: It seems like AI governments, the governance is a thing you really need to have.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: Yes. And like even when you're kind of exploring that, you need to create that because the use of responsible AI is, that's something that you have to have, every institution has to have, and even from nursing committees, if you want to Do something or a pilot before you even do a pilot. That governance committee and governance council needs to be well-established.

Host: Yep. Okay. So I'm going to ask you to look into your crystal ball now. Okay. The Justin crystal ball, look ahead three to five years, how does AI change the role of nurses And what should leaders be doing right now to prepare?

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: So teaching? Right.

Host: Okay.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: So I look at it in five to 10 years. The type of inoperability, the type of tech, the type of analytics and data that you're going to get is going to be far from what we see now because it's going really, really fast. But to learn a new skill is you need to be on top of understanding what these new tools, techniques, perspectives are, what other markets are—what are they using.

the type of tech that's going that's used in banking or the type of tech that's in real estate. SIM has similarities, but the regulations compliance are very different from healthcare. We have PHI, so I always like to say what you need to do now is ramp up, ramp up, getting your nurses to embrace tech or learn how to embrace tech.

Learn how to live with tech on a daily basis. We do that in our everyday lives with having iPhones, with having different types of things. But now it's in a hospital setting, and that's what our patients expect of us, is that we are experts in this. So when we deal with those patients that are tech-naive we know how to handle those.

Host: Yeah. As you said, AI is here to stay.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: It's not going anywhere. It's

Host: not going anywhere. So, it makes sense. And you said start teaching, it's going fast, so ramp up now,

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: correct?

Host: Yeah.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: And like ramp up use different types of virtual nursing, either like within your hospital system, they don't need to be there, you know, help offset some of the workforce burden, get creative of what's out there.

And the only way to. Make it better is to deal with that uncomfortableness. And I always like to say this, you're not going to change unless you're uncomfortable.

Bill Klaproth (Host): Mm-hmm.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: To the point where you want to make that change. Not to where you're ex in excruciating pain, but you want to like learn to improve yourself.

And I always like to say, you need to be uncomfortable. because if you're comfortable, that leads into complacency And that also leads into laziness—and I use that in air quotes—because it's, we've done this, we, This is, This is our culture that we do this all the time. That those phrases, This is the way we do things, but then you need to take a step back and analyze is it the right way to do things in this current world.

Host: So get comfortable being uncomfortable. You might as well embrace it. Yes. Really. And face it head on instead of fighting it. Right. Because it's here to, stay you might as well start teaching and learning and understanding the value that it brings.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: Yes, absolutely. And then, And then like even for us older generations, learning and listening to the younger ones who might have a little bit of understanding, more understanding than we do.

Host: Right.

And as Michael Jackson would say, make that change.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: Right. And, and be that man in the mirror.

Host: Be that man in the mirror. Perfect. I love it. Justin, thank you. This has been a lot of fun.

Justin Bala-Hampton, DNP, MPH, RN, APRN, NEA-BC, FAANP, FNYAM: I appreciate it. No, this has been awesome.

Host: Yeah, thank you so much. Really glad to stopped by. Thank you. Appreciate it.

And once again, That is Dr. Justin Bala-Hampton and if you found this podcast helpful. Please share it on your social channels and check out the full podcast library for topics of interest to you at aonl.org/nursing-leadership-podcast This is today in Nursing Leadership. Thanks for listening.