Bill Klaproth (Host): This is Today in Nursing Leadership, a podcast from the American Organization for Nursing Leadership. I'm Bill Klaproth. And today, we're talking about how Advocate Health is building a more coordinated enterprise-wide approach to nurse leader development. With me is Dr. Shaw, Enterprise Vice President of Nursing Excellence and Practice and Dr. Stephanie Zidek, Vice President of Enterprise Nursing Education and Professional Development. Dr. Shaw and Dr. Zidek, welcome.

Carmen Shaw: Thank you, Bill. Welcome. Thank you.

Stephanie Zidek, PhD, RN, AGCNS-BC, NEA-BC, NPD-BC: Thank you for having us, Bill.

Host: Yeah, absolutely. Happy to talk to you about this. So, Dr. Zidek, let me start with you. What prompted Advocate Health to rethink how it approaches nurse leader development across the organization?

Stephanie Zidek, PhD, RN, AGCNS-BC, NEA-BC, NPD-BC: So within my Department of Enterprise Nursing Ed and Professional Development, we have had great support and strides for really that clinical nurse, that frontline nurse, but we hadn't always had the same level of support for the nurse leader. So last year, in 2025, we were actually able to build out a small team just dedicated to nurse leader development and mimic how we're trying to provide that same support within orientation and role development, professional development for our clinical nurses, and extend that to the nurse leaders. And we certainly do that very closely with our HR and people and culture colleagues. But we have about 5,000, give or take, nurse leaders from managers all the way up to the executive level, and we knew they could benefit from some very targeted leader-specific content and resources.

So as we were building out that small team, we also saw an opportunity to partner a little bit differently and more intentional with AONL. We've had really great successes with a different partnership for the clinical nurses more so, and that's with ANA, the American Nurses Association. So, we've been able to do a really robust membership drive specifically at the state level in some of our areas and expanded that out and saw just how if we can make the process really user-friendly, if we can help to kind of eliminate some barriers, we're able to get a lot of new members and interest. So, we were able to take some of the lessons learned from that partnership and impart that into our AONL strategy. So just this year, we've done a membership drive. We've been able to host various different classes for our leaders through AONL and then had a great presence at our AONL convention, which was actually in one of our home areas of Chicago.

Host: So Dr. Shaw, Dr. Zidek just mentioned 5,000, that number, it's immense. Oh my gosh. So when we talk about leadership development at scale like that, can you tell us what does that actually look like across a large health system?

Carmen Shaw: Yeah, we are an organization that is very much integrated and have really brought a lot of, I would say, legacy practices and infrastructures. When we're this large, we kind of have to have that one direction. And so, it really takes a powerhouse to do that. As Stephanie mentioned, we have over close to 5,000 nurses across the organization.

But in order to really uplift this partnership and really execute it, it really required, I would say, lots of key stakeholders in building that foundation and setting the path so that we can really be able to maximize the benefit of the partnership. So, it's definitely a powerhouse of individuals, of key stakeholders.

So, our professional development, as Stephanie mentioned, but certainly our people and culture team as well. Most importantly, I would say you have to have a top leader in the organization, which is Dr. Betty Jo Rocchio, to really lean in, support this and believe in it. We would not be able to do something of this caliber without her leadership and support and endorsement across Advocate Health. So, it really takes a leader, a top leader who really believes in this, this work, and that's developing our leaders across the organization.

Host: So, getting those key stakeholders on board is really important. And you mentioned top leadership as well. So Dr. Shaw, how do you then take Advocate Health's broader organizational priorities? And then, how do you work those in to help shape your leadership development strategy?

Carmen Shaw: Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, Stephanie mentioned, you know, about how her team has really helped to support this work. But when we look at the actual agreement, the partnership, it really has three key components. One is, you know, as Stephanie mentioned, the educational programming and the membership.

But also, another key element of this is the level of sponsorship that comes with this partnership. And this partnership really has those three really, I would say, large key components that require great organization around it, and they are kind of interrelated. But then, they're not, you know, at some points. It just really depends on when you're executing it.

But, you know, when we look at the organization in itself, Advocate Health, you know, we always and have always aspired to be the first and best. We want to be national leaders. We are national leaders. So, a part of this agreement is really lifting us into that space and further into that space and being national leaders. And we've used this partnership as an element of a benefit to our leaders. When we look at retention and recruitment across the organization and bringing new leaders into our organization, this is a benefit. You know, we talk about health benefits. We talk about dental benefits and insurance and those types of things.

But leadership and membership in professional organizations, this is a benefit to those leaders and those that we are recruiting to the organization.

Host: I can see where that absolutely would be. So, I'm curious, so you've got three different types of nurse leaders. You've got emerging nurse leaders, experienced nurse leaders, executive nurse leaders. So Dr. Zidek, how do you create consistency across the system while still meeting the different needs of those different types of nurse leaders?

Stephanie Zidek, PhD, RN, AGCNS-BC, NEA-BC, NPD-BC: Great question, Bill. We've tried to be really cognizant of that. So, we have some foundational pieces where all of our leaders, regardless of what level of nursing they are, go through. We call that our LEAD program. So, that's upon hire where any leader, regardless if they're inpatient, outpatient, et cetera, goes through that.

And we're in the midst of building and about to debut our One Advocate Nurse Leader Fellowship, and that's really tracked out for those unique roles. So, we have a nurse manager track. And that really splits out into a new nurse manager first time, and then the experienced nurse manager. We have a nurse director track and a nurse executive track.

And those have, you know, some similarities are based off of our strategic plan and our organizational commitments and lots of great connections too to AONL, but they're very much tailored to that unique audience. So, that's been a really great avenue for us. We actually just had a recent meeting, Carmen and I, with AONL to talk through that to see what additional programming can we be very inclusive to embed in.

So for instance, we have really leaned into AONL's finance and business skills classes specifically for our nurse managers. So, we've had three cohorts thus far. We're about to have our fourth, and we have hundreds of folks very interested, but Carmen and I with our leaders have tried to be very selective to make sure it's nurse managers , they're from across the enterprise, a mix of settings.

So, that's just one example where we've been able to really partner cohesively with our own internal programming and then supplementing with AONL. We're doing something similar for our executives around the healthcare finance for nurse executive course. And again, that's going to be mapped towards those in a CNO role or above, but has been a really fantastic partnership.

And we also are so fortunate we have a very rich, robust professional governance group. They've been really key to our AONL, you know, campaign and membership discussions. So, we've invested a lot within that forum too. Those are primarily frontline clinical nurses who are leading at the unit and site-based levels and really trying to tap them from that emerging space.

Carmen Shaw: Thanks for raising up the professional governance. You know, Bill, our professional governance community is really core to really driving the strategies, especially around initiatives like this partnership. And, you know, this past year AONL at the conference back in Chicago, I think we ended up having over 180 Advocate Health attendees.

And they were able to attend through this and, you know, a significant discount, they were able to get through the partnership. And we normally wouldn't have as many. I think we doubled that actually this year. Last year was close to 68. So this year, we're over 180. So, it really speaks volumes to the impact of having this partnership and our teammates being able to afford, to attend, these conference at a lower cost. We also had our professional governance community as well. This year, I think we had 63 attendees at the AONL Professional Governance Leadership Conference.

And again, we would not be able to send as many individuals to those conferences without the discount. And some actually were sponsored. And, you know, through this partnership, we were able to get complimentary registrations. And we were able to use those, with our direct care nurses and then our leadership council at the AONL Leadership Conference.

So, that's an example of the benefit. When we look at the benefit, that's an example of that.

Host: Yeah, that's a great example of how AONL organizational Alliance, that partnership really fits into the bigger leadership development strategy, if you will. And that's a nice shout-out for the AONL conference. So, thank Dr. Shaw. Shout out!

Carmen Shaw: I know, right?

Host: That's great. I love the AONL conference. So, nice work on that. We love it. Okay. So, last question. I'd love to get the perspective from each of you on this. Dr. Zidek, let me start with you. For another health system that has leadership programs in place but wants to build a more coordinated approach like you have done, what advice would you give them about where to start?

Stephanie Zidek, PhD, RN, AGCNS-BC, NEA-BC, NPD-BC: Dr. Shaw alluded to this recently, but really making sure you have the right team. Carmen and I both are within enterprise nursing, and we partner on many different initiatives. So, it's natural for us to come together, but it was very much beyond our team. So, we worked very closely with our people and culture, specifically workforce development. That arm oversees our education assistance or tuition reimbursement dollars. It was pivotal that we partner with them, because that's how our nurse leaders were able to enroll in certain pieces, including membership, without having to put any money down. We were able to do that very strategically with our ed assist vendor, our HR colleagues. So, we don't know how that looks for, you know, listeners within your organization, but that was really key benefit.

We also, you know, have worked closely with our foundation, with our finance teams because there are some dollar amounts that you want to be cognizant. And certainly, the more you're able to put in, the bigger the return. So, really trying to have the right folks at the table. Our communication partners have been huge. We've done a lot of internal campaigning, especially around during key times.

I would say my other piece is really be conscientious of your timeline. A lot of even some of the events we're speaking of, right? The conference, professional governance, leadership conference, the advocacy day, a lot of that happens kind of the first half of the year. So, how can you be strategic and plan out different events and opportunities throughout the year where you can engage your leaders in different ways?

So for us, this is our first year in this endeavor. It's been so enriching and exciting, but those have been some lessons learned too for us to really strategically plan different events for each and every quarter. So right now, we're planning ideally like some cert prep courses for quarter one. We think that will be really helpful to our nurse managers. And then, quarter two is when we'll see more of that, you know, in-person events through the different conferences. And then, quarter three, a membership drive. So, you can kind of see how we're trying to dole out a bit more strategically and spread.

Carmen Shaw: Yeah, Stephanie, I was going to say having a strategy around each component of your agreement. I would add as well communication is really key. We invest, you know, from a cost perspective and time perspective, but we want to get what we want to get out of it. We want to achieve that. And so, communication is really, really, key in getting ahead and making sure, you know, we're maximizing the opportunities for everybody and giving them time enough to make the decisions, you know, around participating.

And that's the biggest key. I would also add, you know, when we look at, I'm sure, any healthcare system, there are already groups established within your organization that you could really use as, I would say, a lift-off point in some of those different strategies. So for example, one of the things that we are getting ready to start is an advocacy community within our organization. And that community really is including nurses who really have a purpose around advocacy, but also who are serving in, you know, the community and different boards. But we're going to use that group to really help us, you know, really do it well next year at our advocacy day with AONL advocacy at The Hill.

This year we had, I think, 11 advocate teammates, so next year we want to double that in representation across the organization. So, really utilizing your internal groups. So, we talked about stakeholders and the strategy. But when we talk about the people, those that are going to use it, use those groups that are already established, your professional governance councils those internal groups that are already there and, they're ready, willing to help and provide insight.

Host: Some really good insight there. So, I've been taking some notes dutifully. So, make sure you have the right team. Work closely with the foundation and finance team. Make sure you're aware of your timeline. As Dr. Shaw said, communication is key. Then pay attention to the various internal groups that can help. Well, this has been a great discussion. Dr. Zidek and Dr. Shaw, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.

Carmen Shaw: Thank you. Thank you, Bill. And great seeing you, Stephanie.

Stephanie Zidek, PhD, RN, AGCNS-BC, NEA-BC, NPD-BC: You too. Thank you for letting us showcase this great work happening within Advocate.

Carmen Shaw: Absolutely.

Host: Well, you're doing a great job, and I know that this will be inspiration for other large health systems and small health systems as well. So, thank you both again. This has really been great. I appreciate it.

Once again, that was Dr. Carmen Shaw and Dr. Stephanie Zidek. And if you found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and check out the full podcast library for topics of interest to you. Just go to aonl.org/nursing-leadership-podcast. This is Today in Nursing Leadership. Thanks for listening.