Bill Klaproth (Host): Welcome to the ASHRM podcast made possible by the American Society for Healthcare Risk Management to support efforts to advance safe and trusted healthcare through enterprise risk management. You can visit ASHRM.org/membership to learn more and to become an ASHRM member. I'm Bill Klaproth.

And with me today, I'm honored, we have Joann Worthham-Moody. She is from Huntington Health and affiliate of Cedars-Sinai. And today, we're going to explore how ASHRM's Risk Professional of the Year stays inspired. Joann, welcome.

Joann Wortham-Moody: Thank you so much for having me, Bill. I'm so happy to be here with you.

Host: Yeah. Excited to talk to you. Very excited being that you are the ASHRM healthcare risk Professional of the Year. So, congrats.

Joann Wortham-Moody: Thank you so much. So much. Yes.

Host: So Joann, you've built a career that spans nursing education, law, healthcare risk management, and business leadership, which is quite impressive. Looking back, what pivotal moment most influenced the direction of your professional life?

Joann Wortham-Moody: I really started to think about how to move forward in the profession. Actually thinking about my mom. My mother is 94 years old, Bill. She's living in Louisiana right now. She actually wanted to be a nurse during her time in the 1930s, 1940s. She wasn't allowed to go to school. She's African American, so she wasn't allowed to go to nursing school. So, she was always pushing for us to be healthcare providers. So, we have five nurses in our family. After being in a nursing profession for about 10 years, I really found that my passion was more for quality assurance, patient safety, those types of things that really had an overall reach versus a bedside reach, which is very important, but had more of an overall reach.

So, I really started trying to figure out how can I get in those roles. At that time, Bill, those roles really were on-job training. There weren't a lot of trainings that you could go to at college, right? There wasn't a degree, a patient safety degree or a risk management degree, or a quality degree at that time. So, everything was really on-job training. So, I was always trying to figure out how I could get in those roles so that I can have an even further reach, if you will, into how healthcare was delivered.

Host: So, how did you make that transition then? How did you start that journey into healthcare risk management?

Joann Wortham-Moody: I started at the bedside. So, I was a bedside nurse. I'm an intensive care nurse. I was at the bedside taking care of patients, worked really hard to get a charge nurse position. And then, found out after that, that there were a couple of things that were going on that I thought were patient safety issues, and I wanted to know what could I do to affect those overall and overreaching patient safety issues that were affecting our critical care patients. And my boss, the nursing director at the time said, "Okay, well, if you think you want to help with solving those problems, why don't you work with our quality director, and we can come up with some strategies?" At that time, root cause analysis was huge in the profession. Of course, other industries had been doing it for a long time, but it became huge in healthcare. And she told me to just go for it and I started working with our quality folks, and bringing that knowledge, tapping into that knowledge that they had about those overreaching goals that can really save lives to the floor. So, I kind of reached out there and just, you know, tapped into that resource and then decided I wanted to join them.

Host: It sounds like you just kind of went for it, and on-the-job training. And luckily, you had people around you that inspired you and helped bring you on and kind of teach you the ropes of healthcare risk management, would that be right?

Joann Wortham-Moody: Oh, that's perfect. Yeah, I had a mentor. And I think a lot of times, as a bedside nurse, we might think that these mentors that we have should only be at the bedside. But actually, having mentors in these other different areas of the hospital, if you are considering having a larger impact, I will say, if you're considering that, then sometimes reaching out to some of these folks that are in quality, patient safety, risk management, accreditation, and getting a mentor from these type places actually can help you move forward with your career.

Host: Yeah. Having somebody behind you encouraging you really is important. So nice that you had that in your career to help you on this path to risk management.

Joann Wortham-Moody: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Host: So, your expertise has taken you to global stages and institutions like IHI and Yale Health. So, what has surprised you most about how different organizations respond to the challenges of workplace culture and equity?

Joann Wortham-Moody: I think I was looking just through one lens, through looking at it from the perspective of the patient, the patient and the patient family or what have you. Initially, when I first started, and I was working with those types of things in terms of health equity and dealing with bias and what have you on healthcare, I really was a proponent of going to these different parts of the hospital in terms of quality, patient safety, those types of folks, and asking, you know, why didn't we have these as tenants in terms of everything that we look at, every piece of data that we have, why aren't we including some type of health equity, visual voice, data stream or what have you?

And so, I was working very tightly, really doing some good work. I will say, within the organizations where I was, I really didn't get on the state stage, national stage, and international stage, until I did some projects that I really did feel like would really move the needle forward in a very impactful way. I started again with this mentor who told me about the political stage and the political arena, told me about, "Well, Joann, this project is something that really we can master and put forth as a way that everyone or all hospitals could maybe do this. Let's go to the hospital consortiums. Let's go here. Let's go there. So again, it was a mentor who said, "It's great that you did this project. It's great that you're trying to move this forward in terms of health equity. But we need a bigger picture, we need a bigger goal so that we can affect more folks in terms of impact. And so, it was through that mentor that introduction, if you will, to the state stage, to the national, international, and even the political and policy part of it. It was all via a mentor who had a larger vision.

Host: And when you thought about, "Hey, through legislation, we can affect more change across the whole industry, not just here locally at my hospital."

Joann Wortham-Moody: And again, conferences that I went to to learn things, I never had really-- and I encourage folks, if you're doing something really good at your hospital, you're doing something that's really impactful for your patients in any area, try to spread that knowledge, you know. And so, it's worth it to go to conferences. And then, of course, I started speaking at the conferences where I was getting all the information from. And I think that sometimes we feel like one person really can't make that big of a difference, that big of a wave in the pond.

But I think that if we look back at the people who have made waves, so to speak. And all types of industries, all types of goals and what have you that have been reached on a state, national, international level, they started off in this really small pond with this little ripple, and then moved on to have a major impact. So even if you're doing what we call a PDSA project, if it really is helping the families, the employees, it's really worth reaching out to share that knowledge.

Host: The visual of the ripple in the pond. I love that. That is really good. Start out in a small pond, you're making the little ripples, but then eventually you move on to the bigger pond and bigger pond, and then the ripples get bigger and bigger. So, this is such a fascinating journey of yours. You sound like a lifelong learner. You sound like somebody that just looks at a challenge and just goes for it. That's what it sounds like.

Joann Wortham-Moody: I have to go back to my mother. So, she's 95 years old, so she's lived for nine and a half decades. And so, we even now don't have to deal with what she had to deal with in the past. And so, what she always instilled in us-- there's 10 of us, Bill, if you can believe that-- there's five girls and five boys. I'm number nine. And basically, what she instilled in us is that when you're feeling fearful, when you're feeling that hopeless, or just confused, like, "I don't know where to go, what to do. I know there's a problem. But I don't know what to do about it. I don't know where to go," her thought is to find that quiet place within yourself, come up with that solution. Talk to who you need to talk to in terms of stakeholders, resources, or what have you. And she said, "Prepare yourself for the journey and then just put one foot in front of the other. Just put one foot in front of the other." And she said, "You would be surprised at how far you will get just putting one foot in front of the other."

Host: That old saying, "Inch by inch, it's a cinch. Yard by yard, it's very hard." Okay. Well, this is perfect timing. Let me ask you about this then. You've got this great quote-- and this ties right into it-- you've got this quote that I really love: Fear is not your enemy. It's your indicator that something meaningful is on the other side. I challenge you to move beyond comfort, beyond doubt, and step fully into your power. Whether you're the only voice in the room or one of many, your perspective matters. You don't need permission to lead. You need courage to act. So, take the next step, apply for that role. Speak up in that meeting. Write that proposal. Advancement doesn't wait for fear to subside. It rewards those who move forward anyway." It sounds like your mom's lessons are all in that quote.

Joann Wortham-Moody: Every bit of it. Her name's Georgia Lee Williams. She lives in Louisiana, this little big town called Roseland. And all that is what she told us. It's what she lived by. If you can imagine, Bill, you know, in a time where you're not allowed to be educated, you have this feeling in your heart that you're a nurse, that you are a caregiver. She found a way through her church to assist with what they call the sick and shut in to go to houses, to go to places. But she found a way to actually do what she wanted to do when there were so many biases, when there was so much going on in terms of even civil issues and what have you in society, she still found a way to do it. She didn't get formal education, but she found a way because she really believed that she was a nurse to actually do the type of nursing that she could do. It was without licensure, right? She was doing more certified nursing assistant type things, but she was able to fulfill her goal in the way that she could during her time.

And so, I just felt like there's no excuse for me, if you will. Having some of the opportunities that she did not have, why am I not fulfilling these goals? Why do I feel like I'm so small? And so, these feelings come, I'm not saying they don't, these feelings come, but it really is to show you that you don't take the path of least resistance. And oftentimes, we do that, because we want to feel comfortable. And so, while it took time, I'm not saying I became this way overnight, it did take time. Now, I'm at a point where when I start to feel uncomfortable, I take a moment, quiet myself to say, "Wow, this might be the very way that I need to go. I know this is right. I know what needs to be done, and maybe I'm the person that's supposed to be doing it. Maybe I'm the person who's supposed to be saying it." Instead of waiting for someone to come and do it, maybe that's me. And I think that's an important question to ask yourself as you progress and move forward with your career, whether it be risk management or whatever career it is, maybe you are that person.

Host: It's such a great life lesson for any career or profession or something personal you're facing, Joann. That's awesome. And I love this line of yours: "You don't need permission to lead. You need courage to act." Do you think that's part of the issue? People do aspire to things, but they just won't take that first step. It sounds like your teaching is: Listen, you don't need permission to lead, but take that first step. Act. Do it. Is that right?

Joann Wortham-Moody: Absolutely. And a lot of times we think, "Well, I'm too small, like I'm a certified nursing assistant. What could I possibly do? I'm just a registered nurse by the bedside. What could I possibly do?" And we really take on, I will say, this negative persona and we restrict ourselves and box ourselves in and make ourselves small. When just taking that first step is, "Oh my gosh. Okay. I see that this patient is not being listened to. Who can I tell?" I know this is small, and people think it is. This is really building, building your confidence and building your courage when you step forward to say, "Hey, I really would like to get this patient an advocate, because I really feel like this patient is not being listened to and this is why, " to go ahead and put that out there.

And I'll say this too, Bill, in a way, not that I run away from conflict, but I don't approach things like someone has a bad intent. I really assume that everybody has a positive intent until proven that they don't. So when I go to them, I do what we call-- and this is actually being taught by Dr. Ross, somebody who's out there who's kind of doing these type of health equity type things-- is that you don't have to call them out. You can call them in. So, it's not that you're trying to cause conflict, but actually being that person who speaks up and gives information in a way that people can receive it. You are needed. And taking that first step is going to be hard, be cause sometimes we are thinking ourselves of being smaller than we actually are, making our voice smaller than it actually is.

But once we take that first step, Bill, you would not believe the confidence that I got from just doing a quality project, and really seeing how it helped the patients, just doing a root cause analysis and seeing the changes that occurred within the hospital and then within the system, and then moving forward, putting forth that same knowledge at a conference and seeing how other folks from other hospitals came up to me and said, "Hey, would you work with us? We really want to do this too." I mean, it will just grow and grow and grow and not only will you benefit, but the people that you are gaining this knowledge about and the helpful strategies, interventions, whatever it is that you're putting forth, it's just going to help a whole bunch of folks. And I think that sometimes we box ourselves in and make ourselves small, when we should be thinking broadly, and having mission and vision individually, if you will.

Host: Yeah. Don't make yourself small, right? Don't limit yourself. And you said, as far as conflict goes, don't call people out. Call them in. That's really an interesting way to look at it. And as you were describing that, I thought about the ripples, your little ripples affected one patient and then a hospital, and then a system, and then an industry. So, that whole ripple analogy, really, as you were saying that, I was thinking about that and how you can start small, but make big change. So, that's really cool.

So Joann, as someone who contributed to ASHRM's Human Capital Playbook, how have you seen the field of healthcare risk management evolve over the years and where do we still need to do some work?

Joann Wortham-Moody: In thinking about our jobs, people are our jobs. And so, a lot of times we're thinking about policies and procedures in terms of verbiage. But knowing that there are people on the other end of that that are going to be affected is really where we should head. And I really applaud ASHRM for thinking about a Human Capital Playbook , because a lot of times-- and this sounds crazy-- we're writing policies and we're doing things and processes and what have you within the hospital, within a system or what have you, and we're really not thinking about stakeholders and those stakeholders being people and the people having vulnerabilities and not just skills. They have a skillset, but then they also have to be treated fairly, and treated like human beings and supported like human beings.

And I think the great leaders who have figured that out, that we have to get some tasks done, we need people with certain skill sets, we also need to support our employees in an impactfully emotional way, like, support them. And I think that's part of the book, when they were talking about that, how we move forward in fairness without bias and those type of things should be considered with any project that you're having. Is this ethical? Those type things. And we call those soft skills. We say that's very soft, you know, in terms of how we get things done. It's not the hardcore task, right? But when you forget the people, it's very hard for you to come up with a solution that's actually going to last when you forget that human component of it.

So, I was very happy to participate with writing this book. My part of the book really talked about culture. And they say this culture beats process and procedure every time. You know, having that culture where people can speak up, where people are allowed to be innovative in our industry. Sometimes we lack a little bit in terms of being real folks who can accept change.

And so, it's so important for us to have innovators in healthcare to move us forward and progress us forward. For some things, we're behind, in terms of other industries doing things before, as they were doing root cause analysis decades before our industry was. So, having that innovator in there, who's willing to speak up, who's willing to move forward. Let's just say even with AI, it has a lot of risks associated with it, right? But having those innovators within the healthcare profession that says, "Oh wait, wait, there is a way that we can use this and use it more broadly, use it in an ethical way." Having those innovators to say, "Hey, hey, in terms of hiring practices, we're using all this AI that's keeping us from having a diverse team." So, having that footprint on the floor from the human beings, looking at everything that we're doing, and then becoming those innovators who can move us forward. And like I said, some industries have already done some things that the healthcare industry has not done in terms of human capital. I'm just looking forward to us moving forward. And I will say this too, we need more diversity in risk management. Coming to the field at first, there really were more males that were in risk management and not very many females. And then, you know, I've been in risk management for a few decades.

So, as we move forward, you saw that we integrated, we brought in more females and different types of people in terms of gender. And then, it was much later that we brought in folks of different nationalities and races. So, I think as we move forward too, Bill, we're kind of old, like some of the people that are in risk management. I'm just saying our age, if you look at our ages or what have you, we have fewer young people coming into risk management, and with fewer young people bringing them into the field. Because again, that's not a whole lot of degrees per se. I'm hoping that changes in the education industry or what have you. We have a lot of certifications, but not a lot of degrees. So, I think we have fewer young people being introduced. So now, I'm thinking about how can we bring them in? What are the strategies that we have to look at to bring in more young people to mentor and bring into this field? So, that's what I'm thinking in terms of us moving forward, like how do we bring more diversity, in terms of age, gender, race, ethnicity?

Host: Yeah. All of that is good. And those are things that certainly might be lagging a little bit like many companies certainly. But innovation's certainly very important. Diversity, very important. Paying attention to human capital, as you said. I liked how you said people are our jobs. And even though we all have tasks to do, we have to treat our employees in a human, empathetic way to get the most out of them and provide a really healthy work environment for them as well. So, really good stuff.

So speaking of writing, Joann, I have to ask you your book, EDI is The New Black, became a bestseller and was spotlighted by Forbes. First of all, can you tell us how that book came about and how did writing that book change your career? And what kind of responses have you received from readers?

Joann Wortham-Moody: The book came about, I actually was working on another project for someone else. And I had done an assessment. I do some consultations about risk management. And I have some consultations that I do about culture within different industries, different environments, mostly healthcare industry. And I was writing this report, and I'm writing all the things that I want, that I believe that this particular organization needs to do in order to move forward. And I thought I would love to give this out. Like, I would love to give this to others, pass it by a friend who's an editor and she said, "You know what? I think this would be a good book." And I thought, "Oh, stop it," she was just being nice. She's like, "No, no, no." I think if you work with so and so, and we do this and we do the other, I think this would really be a good book." Because her thing was, the way that you speak, if I can use this word, I'm Southern, so I'm just going to say it's cornbread. Like, it's just simple. It's not hard to really look at this book and get something out of it. Because in the book, Bill, I talk about my own experiences. I talk about how that made me feel. I talk about, "Okay, do you have these type of experiences that are, you know, going on within your organization?" Then, maybe that's how your employees are feeling. So, what can we do about it? So, it's more experiential, like, what happened to me.

Host: Very authentic because you lived it, basically.

Joann Wortham-Moody: I didn't. So, nobody can say, "Well, that didn't happen. That doesn't happen." It happened.

Host: I love it. So, you weren't thinking about writing a book, and here it happens. So now, that it has happened and it's been very well received. How has that changed your career?

Joann Wortham-Moody: I have more folks asking me about balance, asking me about how do we move forward if let's just say we're alone? How do we move forward if our executive team don't see it exactly the way that we see it? Basically, what they're asking me is how do you call people in instead of calling them out? Like, we're not trying to cause conflict. There's research that says the more diverse your teams are, the better you do. There's research behind that, you know, in terms of various companies. And we know the better we are able to take care of patients and families. Like, there is research. So, they want to know, "We'll join. How do we move forward when we're not getting maybe the response that we thought that we were going to get in terms of positivity? And so, I'm all obliged every time someone asked me that. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about how we can really move into whatever it is that we want to move into or bring forward, I should say, thinking in our minds that everyone has the best intent. And that's difficult sometimes when people tell me that that's difficult sometimes. I say, "But let's frame it that way. Let's frame it in our head until proven that, no, that's not what's going on." I think that really helps me. So, really, the book has helped me to really get larger audiences, and people thinking that, "Hey, there's a way to move forward in positivity."

Host: Bigger pond, more ripples.

Joann Wortham-Moody: Yeah. I'll take that, Bill. I'll take that.

Host: You'll take it. I love it. And as you said, when in difficult situations, as I was reading earlier, a quote of yours, fear is not your enemy. Difficult situation. Things are hard. It's an indicator that something meaningful is on the other side once you kind of break through, would that be right?

Joann Wortham-Moody: That's exactly right.

Host: So, speaking of books and projects, this is so fun to talk to you, can you tell us about your upcoming project, Peril to Promise, that is set to launch? Can you tell us about that? And how does this moment in your career then reflect the evolution of your voice, your mission, your goals as a thought leader?

Joann Wortham-Moody: Here's something else that I didn't think I was going to be doing. I didn't think I was a filmmaker. So, from Peril to Promise came about, Bill, because I almost lost my sister. So, she's number 10. And her name is Gracie. And she was pregnant, had a baby. Afterward, had hypertensive crisis, was misdiagnosed, and almost died. I'm a risk manager. All the risk managers out there know In terms of OB-GYN type claims, these claims tend to be in the millions and millions of dollars. This is something that we pay attention to all the time because any risk manager is also a patient safety advocate anyway. So, it's about the patient, but then this is something that cost the institutions a lot of money.

I knew about all the research. I was working with our partners, you know, in the facility where I was working, working with the state on these type things, but it hadn't come home, Bill. It hadn't touched my life like that. And so, when I almost lost my sister and then after that, we start hearing things about these stars. Black women who have a lot of money, they have a lot of prestige, but they were also dying. And so, we heard all these horrible stories, but very few times that we spend a lot of time on what are the interventions? what solves the problem? Who's doing it the best? And so, what I wanted to do was to-- not that the other stories aren't important, they are-- but I wanted to lean more toward the promise. Somebody out there, Bill, had to be doing it. I'm like, I have to find them.

Host: Right. There's got to be someone.

Joann Wortham-Moody: Somebody's out there doing it. And so, I found this program called Embrace at the University of California, San Francisco, that were having very low morbidity rates, a zero mortality rate. And I was like, "What is going on? And why aren't we all doing this?" And so, I started in Louisiana. We are number 48 when it comes to women's, and this is all women surviving birth. We are worse here in the United States than some third world countries, by the way, Bill. And so Louisiana is number 48, but California is number three. So, I was trying to figure out what are number one, two, and three doing that we can actually spread across our nation to save lives?

And so, I went on that quest. Took my sister with me. Even my mom was 94 at the time of the film. My 94-year-old mother also participated because she was telling us what was happening back in the 1930s, 1940s. And some of the reasons why we had a lower mortality and morbidity rate during that time than we do at this time-- I know that's shocking. So, it's a film about family. It's a film about discovery. I didn't think it was going to get picked up, because I'm just like, "Well, that's about black maternal health." And it got picked up right away. And so, we're thinking early spring of 2026, that we'll be debuting on Netflix. And I didn't know any of that was going to happen. And Bill, that was just a step forward? Like, I just took one step forward. I didn't even think these people would talk to me. Bill. I'm like, "Nobody." And then, I'm just like, "I'm going to call this person who's an international leader and whatever and whatever." And they were like, "Hi, Joann." I'm thinking, "Okay, here we go." Congressman and all this stuff. I didn't really think they would talk to me. But you know what I did, Bill? I took a step forward and I called. And so, all they could say was no. They could just say no. And so, none of them did.

Host: You had the courage to act.

Joann Wortham-Moody: And that's what we do. and that's the call to action right now. That's the call to action, is to have the courage to act.

Host: The courage and look at what has turned out because of it and the opportunity and the lives that you potentially can change and save because of this.

Joann Wortham-Moody: I think about it, it's quite overwhelming sometimes. But again, I just go back to-- her name is Georgia Lee Williams and she's 95, was married to Monroe Williams. They're from Roseland, Louisiana. They were married 55 years before my dad passed. But to have that kind of courage during the time that she grew up, I just feel like, "Gosh, she had no resources." And so, I'm grateful every day. And it shows and your gratitude is spreading to all of us. So, we appreciate you spreading that. Joann, this has been fascinating and insightful and inspiring.

Host: Thank you so much for your time. Before we wrap up, is there anything you want to add about risk management or your career or leadership or the courage to act? The floor is yours. Wrap it up for us.

Joann Wortham-Moody: I just want to tell all the risk managers out there, first, I want to thank you for your work. Sometimes it does feel as though we get, you know, the back end of everything when everything's gone wrong. But I see in us a group of people who are willing to act. We are leaders, and we are out there. We're in the background, but we are out there keeping patients and families safe. And so, i'm grateful you are. One of the things that I'm grateful for is this profession and grateful for each and every one of you who every day take that step forward to keep patients and families and employees safe. Thank you so much.

Host: What a great message to all of our risk managers. Thank you so much, Joann. Go read the book, EDI is the New Black. We'll be looking for Peril to Promise coming out in 2026 on Netflix. Wow. This is just awesome. Great. Talking to you, Joann. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate this.

Joann Wortham-Moody: Thanks so much, Bill.

Bill Klaproth (Host): You bet. Once again, that is Joann Worthham-Moody. and the ASHRM Podcast is made possible by the American Society for Healthcare Risk Management to support efforts to advance, safe and trusted healthcare through enterprise risk management. You can visit ashrm.org/membership to learn more and to become an ASHRM member. And we encourage you to do that. And if you found this podcast helpful-- and how could you not? Come on, please share it on your social channels and check out the full podcast library for topics of interest to you. Thanks for listening.