Selected Podcast
Ketamine Treatment May Be The Answer
Bath Community Hospital is offering an alternative to mental health and pain treatment through Ketamine Infusion. No longer considered a Party Drug, Ketamine provides hope for treatment-resistant depression and for so many who suffer.
Featuring:
Dr. Ed, as his patients and colleagues refer to him, was born in Russia but has spent most of his life living in the United States. Dr. Ed has over 30 years of experience with Ketamine and has witnessed its benefits time and time again.
Eduard Nemirovsky, M.D.
Dr. Nemirovski studied at First Moscow State Medical University, University of Southern California School of Medicine, and George Washington University School of MedicineDr. Ed, as his patients and colleagues refer to him, was born in Russia but has spent most of his life living in the United States. Dr. Ed has over 30 years of experience with Ketamine and has witnessed its benefits time and time again.
Transcription:
Caitlyn Whyte: Bath Community Hospital is now offering an alternative to mental health and pain treatment through ketamine infusion. No longer considered a party drug, ketamine provides hope for treatment-resistant depression and for so many who suffer. To tell us more about this option is Dr. Eduard Nemirovsky. He is an anesthesiologist and Director of the Hot Springs Re-Treat Clinic.
You're listening to Your Health is Our Passion, a Bath Community Hospital podcast brought to you by Bath Community Hospital. I'm your host, Caitlin Whyte. So doctor, once considered Special K, ketamine has now transformed from, you know, a late night party drug to an effective mental health treatment. Can you tell us a bit how this transformation has happened and brought us to this moment?
Dr. Eduard Nemirovsky: Oh, it's a very long story. It started in 1956 by Parke-Davis Company who developed ketamine from phencyclidine. And it's started by Dr. Edward Domino, pharmacology, and Dr. Corssen, Gunter Corssen, anesthesiologist, who did the first anesthesia in 1964 with ketamine. And probably at the same time in 1966, 1972, is some very occasionally, very rare study published or studied in five patients, ten patients not more. It then showed that ketamine can improve mood of a patient and they started studying why it's doing this. And actually, the last study I saw in last year in Sweden, Caroline Institute in Sweden published a study that the drug worked as quick and worked on different kinds of receptor, increased level of serotonin and improved patient with depression, anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder, and so forth.
Caitlyn Whyte: Now, you know, it's unique that this treatment is offered in our small rural town. Why are you so passionate about bringing this option here?
Dr. Eduard Nemirovsky: I think it's very appropriate for the small town. First of all, February of this year, Forbes compiled a list of 10 best places in the United States for travel and, surprisingly, Bath County is one of those 10 places. And I feel that coming here for restarting, it's why it's called re-treat clinic because it's kind of jumpstart, restart patients with depression. Not only ketamine will help but surroundings, nice weather. You can do a lot of hot springs. It helps to relax, helps to enjoy surrounding. This is why I thought it will be very appropriate. Unfortunately, as you mentioned, a very small community, it's not a lot of thru traffic, which may cause problem to get more patients here.
Caitlyn Whyte: Well, you know, the hospital has partnered with a world-class resort in the area and they're offering rates. Touching on that last question, how does this resort-style option and kind of getaway feel provide the best environment for ketamine treatments?
Dr. Eduard Nemirovsky: It's a very interesting question. But again, treatment of depression is not only medication. It's what's around patient. It's what helps patient to feel better, to feel in community, not separated. Usually, depressed people kind of keep alone, not trying to engage in conversation, not trying to engage in some activities.
Here, with Omni Homestead Resort, there's a lot of activities with our physical therapy, with our occupational therapy; with ketamine treatment, which helps to restart, helps to start people enjoying life and enjoying surroundings and enjoying communications with everybody.
Caitlyn Whyte: So, can you give us a glimpse into how treatment works? Is it a one-time dose or is it given out over the course of our stay? What should those who are interested expect?
Dr. Eduard Nemirovsky: A lot of studies has shown that ketamine infusion is very low sub-anesthetic dose. It's not what I use for anesthesia. It's much lower, probably five to ten times lower dose work better with less side effects. As any medicine, ketamine has side effects, which we try to avoid. Let's say for depression, it better works, at least from a start, at least three infusions over one week, one hour each infusion and probably another half an hour or 40 minutes to monitor patient if patient is having side effects. And if it helps and statistically it's helped from 65 to 72% of patients, a patient will go home and come back maybe in a few months, maybe in six months. Some patients return a little bit earlier, some patients return a little bit later, just for one infusion. And again, it's another 3, 4, 5, 6 months, at least what experience from other clinics has shown that some people feel comfortable and no depression or sign after second or third boost infusion.
Again, it's not for everybody. It's helped as a said from 65%, 68% to 72% of people with depression, but it works really fast. This is a major difference with regular medicine for depression versus ketamine infusion. Ketamine infusions, patient feels immediate relief in 45 minutes after ketamine infusion. Compared to regular medicine, it takes at least months or two to start the new medicine, adjust dosage and maybe another two to three months to monitor patient if it's helpful or not. And only after this long period of time, patient and practitioner will decide is this medicine really helpful with symptoms.
Caitlyn Whyte: Okay. And I know one of the challenges at this time, unfortunately, is payment. Can you tell us about our options here?
Dr. Eduard Nemirovsky: Unfortunately, our options are very minimal. None of the insurance will cover this treatment yet, except S(+)-ketamine is one medicine which is given intranasally, but it's very expensive and a lot of people not really got relief after S(+)-ketamine is given intranasally. It's only a 40 to 60% bioavailability in the blood after this intranasal dose.
And I know that in west coast in a few states, local insurance may cover. In our area, unfortunately, none of the insurance covers and it's self-pay. This is the biggest problem for ketamine infusion all over the country.
Caitlyn Whyte: Well, doctor, as we wrap up here, I know you said you could talk for hours on this topic of ketamine, but is there any last bits of info you want people to know who might be considering this option?
Dr. Eduard Nemirovsky: I would ask people, please call us. We will talk with you. We will discuss what options patients have. And as I said, not everybody will get benefits from this infusion, but at least it could be an option to consider and to discuss with professional. And we are at a very good place for this, because again we're located in the hospital. And by the way, in the United States, as I am aware, only three or four ketamine clinics are located in the hospital, based in a hospital. They have all benefits being in the hospital. There is monitoring, control infusion, treating side effect of this medication and so forth.
Caitlyn Whyte: Well, doctor, I'm so happy we had the chance to have this discussion and helped tear down some of the stigmas around using these types of drugs in clinical settings.
For more information, you can call the Hot Springs Re-Treat Clinic at (540) 839-7073, that's (540) 839-7073 or visit us online at re-treatclinic.com. In addition, please remember to subscribe, rate and review this podcast and all of the other Bath Community Hospital podcasts.
For more health tips and updates, you can follow us on your social channels. This has been your Health is Our Passion, a Bath Community Hospital podcast brought to you by Bath Community Hospital. I'm your host, Caitlin Whyte. Stay well.
Caitlyn Whyte: Bath Community Hospital is now offering an alternative to mental health and pain treatment through ketamine infusion. No longer considered a party drug, ketamine provides hope for treatment-resistant depression and for so many who suffer. To tell us more about this option is Dr. Eduard Nemirovsky. He is an anesthesiologist and Director of the Hot Springs Re-Treat Clinic.
You're listening to Your Health is Our Passion, a Bath Community Hospital podcast brought to you by Bath Community Hospital. I'm your host, Caitlin Whyte. So doctor, once considered Special K, ketamine has now transformed from, you know, a late night party drug to an effective mental health treatment. Can you tell us a bit how this transformation has happened and brought us to this moment?
Dr. Eduard Nemirovsky: Oh, it's a very long story. It started in 1956 by Parke-Davis Company who developed ketamine from phencyclidine. And it's started by Dr. Edward Domino, pharmacology, and Dr. Corssen, Gunter Corssen, anesthesiologist, who did the first anesthesia in 1964 with ketamine. And probably at the same time in 1966, 1972, is some very occasionally, very rare study published or studied in five patients, ten patients not more. It then showed that ketamine can improve mood of a patient and they started studying why it's doing this. And actually, the last study I saw in last year in Sweden, Caroline Institute in Sweden published a study that the drug worked as quick and worked on different kinds of receptor, increased level of serotonin and improved patient with depression, anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder, and so forth.
Caitlyn Whyte: Now, you know, it's unique that this treatment is offered in our small rural town. Why are you so passionate about bringing this option here?
Dr. Eduard Nemirovsky: I think it's very appropriate for the small town. First of all, February of this year, Forbes compiled a list of 10 best places in the United States for travel and, surprisingly, Bath County is one of those 10 places. And I feel that coming here for restarting, it's why it's called re-treat clinic because it's kind of jumpstart, restart patients with depression. Not only ketamine will help but surroundings, nice weather. You can do a lot of hot springs. It helps to relax, helps to enjoy surrounding. This is why I thought it will be very appropriate. Unfortunately, as you mentioned, a very small community, it's not a lot of thru traffic, which may cause problem to get more patients here.
Caitlyn Whyte: Well, you know, the hospital has partnered with a world-class resort in the area and they're offering rates. Touching on that last question, how does this resort-style option and kind of getaway feel provide the best environment for ketamine treatments?
Dr. Eduard Nemirovsky: It's a very interesting question. But again, treatment of depression is not only medication. It's what's around patient. It's what helps patient to feel better, to feel in community, not separated. Usually, depressed people kind of keep alone, not trying to engage in conversation, not trying to engage in some activities.
Here, with Omni Homestead Resort, there's a lot of activities with our physical therapy, with our occupational therapy; with ketamine treatment, which helps to restart, helps to start people enjoying life and enjoying surroundings and enjoying communications with everybody.
Caitlyn Whyte: So, can you give us a glimpse into how treatment works? Is it a one-time dose or is it given out over the course of our stay? What should those who are interested expect?
Dr. Eduard Nemirovsky: A lot of studies has shown that ketamine infusion is very low sub-anesthetic dose. It's not what I use for anesthesia. It's much lower, probably five to ten times lower dose work better with less side effects. As any medicine, ketamine has side effects, which we try to avoid. Let's say for depression, it better works, at least from a start, at least three infusions over one week, one hour each infusion and probably another half an hour or 40 minutes to monitor patient if patient is having side effects. And if it helps and statistically it's helped from 65 to 72% of patients, a patient will go home and come back maybe in a few months, maybe in six months. Some patients return a little bit earlier, some patients return a little bit later, just for one infusion. And again, it's another 3, 4, 5, 6 months, at least what experience from other clinics has shown that some people feel comfortable and no depression or sign after second or third boost infusion.
Again, it's not for everybody. It's helped as a said from 65%, 68% to 72% of people with depression, but it works really fast. This is a major difference with regular medicine for depression versus ketamine infusion. Ketamine infusions, patient feels immediate relief in 45 minutes after ketamine infusion. Compared to regular medicine, it takes at least months or two to start the new medicine, adjust dosage and maybe another two to three months to monitor patient if it's helpful or not. And only after this long period of time, patient and practitioner will decide is this medicine really helpful with symptoms.
Caitlyn Whyte: Okay. And I know one of the challenges at this time, unfortunately, is payment. Can you tell us about our options here?
Dr. Eduard Nemirovsky: Unfortunately, our options are very minimal. None of the insurance will cover this treatment yet, except S(+)-ketamine is one medicine which is given intranasally, but it's very expensive and a lot of people not really got relief after S(+)-ketamine is given intranasally. It's only a 40 to 60% bioavailability in the blood after this intranasal dose.
And I know that in west coast in a few states, local insurance may cover. In our area, unfortunately, none of the insurance covers and it's self-pay. This is the biggest problem for ketamine infusion all over the country.
Caitlyn Whyte: Well, doctor, as we wrap up here, I know you said you could talk for hours on this topic of ketamine, but is there any last bits of info you want people to know who might be considering this option?
Dr. Eduard Nemirovsky: I would ask people, please call us. We will talk with you. We will discuss what options patients have. And as I said, not everybody will get benefits from this infusion, but at least it could be an option to consider and to discuss with professional. And we are at a very good place for this, because again we're located in the hospital. And by the way, in the United States, as I am aware, only three or four ketamine clinics are located in the hospital, based in a hospital. They have all benefits being in the hospital. There is monitoring, control infusion, treating side effect of this medication and so forth.
Caitlyn Whyte: Well, doctor, I'm so happy we had the chance to have this discussion and helped tear down some of the stigmas around using these types of drugs in clinical settings.
For more information, you can call the Hot Springs Re-Treat Clinic at (540) 839-7073, that's (540) 839-7073 or visit us online at re-treatclinic.com. In addition, please remember to subscribe, rate and review this podcast and all of the other Bath Community Hospital podcasts.
For more health tips and updates, you can follow us on your social channels. This has been your Health is Our Passion, a Bath Community Hospital podcast brought to you by Bath Community Hospital. I'm your host, Caitlin Whyte. Stay well.