Joey (Host): It is a common childhood issue, so we're discussing bullying and cyberbullying. Our guest is Dr. Jordan Coyner, a pediatrician. This is BayCare HealthChat. Thanks so much for joining us. I am Joey Wahler. Hi Doctor, welcome.

Jordan Coyner, MD: Thank you so much for having me.

Joey (Host): Oh, great to have you aboard. We appreciate the time. So first, how big of a problem are bullying and cyberbullying these days? How common is this?

Jordan Coyner, MD: Unfortunately, so common. Kids have a lot of access to social media and friends at school, and so sadly, one fifth of kids are bullied. Statistically, it's happening every seven minutes, which is a lot.

Joey (Host): Wow. So that is a big number. No question. At what age does this usually start?

Jordan Coyner, MD: Oh, bullying can happen at any age. A lot of times we see it commonly in our even elementary kids, and then it gets worse as they go into middle school and high school.

Joey (Host): That's why as the father of a 3-year-old daughter, I’m still thrilled that when I drop her off for preschool, everybody seems to be getting along just fine, Doc.

Jordan Coyner, MD: Yes. Yes, absolutely. Same. Same.

Joey (Host): That's great. So what exactly, just to kind of take a half step back here, what exactly constitutes bullying and cyberbullying? Where's the line that pushes it into bully territory?

Jordan Coyner, MD: Yeah, so, bullying is defined as when someone hurts or scares another person over and over again. And there are different forms of bullying, right? And that can include physical harm, like hitting or kicking someone. Verbal harm, like calling someone names, using unkind words, spreading lies, bad rumors. Social harm, like doing harmful pranks, making fun of people.

And then there's cyberbullying, which takes place on digital devices, which all kids have nowadays, like cell phones, computers, tablets, and that can occur through text messages, applications, apps, or online and social media forums or commonly gaming platforms now.

Joey (Host): Gaming platforms as well.

Jordan Coyner, MD: Yeah. Yeah. Because a lot of kids are playing video games and there's a lot of chat and little boxes in those platforms where they can talk to people that they probably have not met in person before.

Joey (Host): Right. Trash talking that gets out of hand, etcetera.

Jordan Coyner, MD: Absolutely. Exactly.

Joey (Host): So what's behind this on the part of the bully typically? Why do children become bullies?

Jordan Coyner, MD: There's a lot of reasons, and some of the reasons could be possibly a lack of attention. Poor self-esteem. They want to feel stronger, smarter than somebody else. Jealousy. Maybe the feeling of being unkind to someone else makes them feel in control or powerful. But either way, bullying is not something that any kid should endure.

It does not make them stronger. It makes them more at risk for emotional stress. And then the children who bully, they're more likely to get into trouble and participate in risky activities that only get worse as they get older.

Joey (Host): So obviously there might be many psychological reasons behind a bully's actions, but simply put, is it safe to say, Doctor, that oftentimes the bullying isn't so much because of anger toward the person that's being bullied as much as there are just some things going on where it could just as soon be somebody else, right?

Jordan Coyner, MD: Right. I think it can be a multitude of things. You know, kids are not, they're built with emotions, and they're not always taught how to utilize those. That's the part where the parents and the adults and the caregivers get to come in and teach them how to handle the feelings, right? So maybe someone could be angry at someone else and that's how they're displacing that anger. Or it could be something that's going on with themselves.

Joey (Host): When we talk about cyberbullying, what makes cyberbullying, in some cases worse than other bullying? I would imagine one thing at least is the fact that, depending upon the form of cyberbullying, whatever's being said, might be out there forever once it's out there. Right?

Jordan Coyner, MD: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Nothing posted online is ever truly gone, and I think that's a hard concept to grasp when you're young. Screenshots, downloads, forwarded messages, AI now all means every single impulsive post can live forever. Even Snapchat, that is where kids think they post something for 24 hours and it goes away, but it lasts forever.

So when I'm seeing kids in the office, I always encourage them to pause. Pause before you post, pause before you share click, like something and ask, “Would I be okay if my teacher saw this? What if my grandma saw this? If my college admissions counselor in the future saw this, how would I feel about that?”

Joey (Host): I love it. The grandma test, right?

Jordan Coyner, MD: Yeah, exactly, exactly. The grandma test, I like that.

Joey (Host): So how about the worst potential impact for bullying on kids? Because as you well know, it can turn really bad if it gets out of control.

Jordan Coyner, MD: Oh, a hundred percent, absolutely. I mean, it can affect their everyday confidence or how they're feeling, their happiness, their mental health. And we've seen all the way down to where it can make kids so sad that they start thinking about suicide and other very harmful things.

And cyberbullying hurts just as much as in-person bullying. Your brain processes online rejection and humiliation just the same as pain. And I tell kids, you know, what's said online, like I said, it's permanent. It spreads fast. It's public. And when you're typing in the privacy of your room, your car, it's very easy to feel bold with your words, forgetting that those words have a big impact on others, right?

And words matter. And those words can affect someone for the rest of their life. So, you know, when you type things, your tone, how you say things, maybe the perception, it might not always be conveyed how they're meant to. So I always encourage kids in general, right, always practice kindness with your words, whether they're spoken or written.

Joey (Host): Absolutely great advice there. So what can parents do to start helping guard against this, or at least best prepare their kids to handle it. I want to ask you more specifically with that about the cyberbullying in a moment. But in terms of bullying in general, how do you teach your kids to steer clear of it if they can?

Jordan Coyner, MD: Yeah, and it's hard because you can't control who your kids are around at school for the most part, right? They're in a classroom with a lot of kids. But I guess the best thing you can do as a parent is to prepare your child. Protect them for what they're going to see ahead in the future. So talk with your child. Explain what bullying is, give some examples, and then role play it. Tell them some scenarios that they might encounter and how you would help them react to those. Your parent can work with teachers, school counselors, principals.

Tell your kid to identify an adult at school, maybe you guys have come up with together that your child can trust that they feel like they can go talk to when they're having a hard time at school. It's really important for parents to document, report that bullying, immediately get help from a doctor or a mental health professional if anyone's talking about suicide or they seem really, really upset.

And then the biggest thing that parents can do is monitor what your kids are doing. Protect them, teach them about online safety to not share their personal information. If they have access to internet or a phone, it's often recommended to teach children that they have a privilege, not a right to have a phone. Right?

And they must show and practice responsibility to have access to those things. So I often recommend to patients and families that there's a community area in the home for the computer, for the phones to not allow full access to those devices when they're in the rooms alone. You can have trust in your child of course, but you can still be able to protect them from the online world at the same time. Phones, computers, they can also be given to a caregiver, at a certain set time of the night. And this can also help ensure kids are getting a good night's sleep. Getting ready for school, letting their brains kind of wind down, and be prepared for the weekend ahead or the days ahead in school.

Joey (Host): How about with the cyberbullying, what is typically the biggest pitfall? How do kids get wrapped up in a situation where they're really feeling the pressure of comments being made about them online. Is there a way to, you can't completely insulate yourself as you said. I mean, these kids are going to school, they're around other kids, they're living life.

But, online, what can you do to at least create kind of a buffer if there is such a thing?

Jordan Coyner, MD: I think the most important thing as far as, cyberbullying and online and helping protect the kids in that matter is kind of just parents being also aware of what applications are out there. Because, you know, digital media applications, they allow children not only to connect with their peers, right, and share their feelings, but they're providing a place for inappropriate rhetoric to occur sometimes.

And unfortunately, adults posing as children speaking with them. And so, kids don't think about that in the moment. But a person behind the keyboard could be someone that is the same age or much older, and this can lead to very dangerous persuasions and situations.

And I encourage parents to look at the phones, look at what they're playing with, because there's a lot of apps out there that parents might not know about or they might know about them. And they include things like Snapchat, WhatsApp, Twitch, Tumblr, Roblox – very common, a lot of my patients tell me about Roblox – Discord, Kik Messenger, Reddit, TikTok, Instagram, and then those gaming systems. Always think before you post online. Don't talk to people you've never met in person and keep your passwords safe.

Joey (Host): Gotcha. Couple of other things for you. One is – obviously in certain instances, unfortunately, bullying can be terrifying, especially if there's one bully fixated on a particular kid. If you're on the wrong end of that, it can be really scary. And I wonder, are there any signs, Doctor, that parents should look for that maybe their child is being bullied but is too afraid to tell them?

Jordan Coyner, MD: Absolutely. Families might notice unexplainable injuries that maybe the kid doesn't want to talk about, lost or destroyed clothing and belongings, faking sicknesses. Often kids might not want to go to school if there's a test or something, but this might be excessive, failing grades, losing interest in things they usually enjoy doing, sudden loss of friends. Maybe they're no longer talking to the same people they used to, and then they start to avoid social situations. So those are some little tips for parents to consider. Maybe, this is a little flag, maybe my spidey sense should be up and something isn't right.

Joey (Host): Even though you're a pediatrician, do you ever find yourself advising parents on how to handle this?

Jordan Coyner, MD: You want to respect your kids, but our job as parents is to protect them. And so that's the best thing that we can do is work with your teachers, work with the schools, Hillsborough County, lots of counties have come up with protocols in place and schools have protocols for when things like this happen. So I just encourage adults to identify, report it, document it, and work with the school, work with the counselors and the principal. And then, like I said, arm your child with the knowledge and the skills to help them when they're in those situations.

So I think the best thing we can do is just monitor and just teach, teach the kids what bullying is and that it's not okay in any way, shape, or form.

I know it's really common for parents to wonder what can their children do in this situation with bullies? And so I encourage kids to look at the kid bullying you. Use a calm voice. Tell them to stop. But if talking to them seems too hard or it's not safe, walk away. Find an adult. Don't keep your feelings inside. Tell somebody. Always report things that you see if it includes you or not. If it includes a friend, always report those things to a teacher or a trusted adult.

And the last thing I encourage kids to do is always be kind. Be kind to others with your words, your actions, and include your friends that might be on the sidelines.

Joey (Host): And then in summary here, other than talking with an expert like yourself, of course, what other resources are available to parents to better educate them on dealing with bullying and cyberbullying?

Jordan Coyner, MD: Yeah, there's so many things out there because like we've said, unfortunately this is so common. So the resources are people such as a guidance counselor or coaches, your church leaders, your community advocates, your pediatrician, your therapists, psychologists. The Suicide and Crisis Lifeline is a 24/7 number that provides care, and I always tell some young adults or kids about this if they are talking about suicide.

That number is 988.

And then really importantly, on World Mental Health Day in 2018, the On Our Sleeves movement for Children's Mental Health was started. The goal was to start conversations with kids. Break those stigmas and provide much needed free resources to families, caregivers, educators, coaches across the United States.

So I always encourage people to visit BayCareKidsOnOurSleeves.org to learn more information.

Joey (Host): Great advice indeed all the way around. Folks, we trust you are now more familiar with bullying and cyberbullying. It's a lot more complicated than when we were kids, right, Doc?

Jordan Coyner, MD: It is absolutely. Times have changed. The world has changed. Social media is much more prevalent than when we were younger, so, it's a crisis that we're in. But, as a pediatrician and as a parent myself, we want the best for the kids. And that's what we're gonna do for them.

Joey (Host): No question about that, Dr. Coyner. Thanks so much again.

Jordan Coyner, MD: Thank you so much for having me.

Joey (Host): Absolutely. And for more information or to connect with a provider, please visit BayCare.org. Also, please remember to subscribe, rate, and review this podcast and all the other BayCare podcasts for more health tips and updates you can follow on your social channels. If you found this podcast helpful, please do share it on your social media and be sure to check out all the other interesting podcasts in the BayCare library as well. I'm Joey Wahler. Thanks so much again for being part of BayCare HealthChat.