Anne Walters, PhD (Host 1): Many parents in the United States, and especially those who have black children, face the privilege and responsibility of instilling culturally appropriate values and principles in their kids. They want to prepare them for adulthood and their future roles in society. However, these parents also have an additional task on their hands. They must teach their children how to navigate a society that may sometimes send messages that undermine their efforts. It's a challenging job as they often have to counteract the messages that children receive from various sources like the media, education system, healthcare system and even the legal system.

Host 1: This process of teaching kids how to navigate these conflicting messages and understand their black identity is known as racial socialization. Today, our colleague and fellow researcher, Dr. Bianka Charity-Parker, joins us on Mindcast to talk about her recent research on racial socialization, and we're thrilled to have her with us.

Greg Fritz, MD (Host 2): Welcome, Dr. Charity-Parker.

Bianka Charity-Parker, PhD: Thank you so much.

Host 2: Glad to have you. You know Anne Walters, a colleague and friend.

Bianka Charity-Parker, PhD: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited.

Host 2: Great.

Host 1: This is Mindcast: Healthy Mind, Healthy Child, a podcast from the mental health experts at Bradley Hospital, leaders in mental healthcare for children. I'm Dr. Anne Walters here with my colleague, Dr. Greg Fritz.

Host 2: So understanding and addressing racial socialization is crucial for the healthy identity development of black children and really all children of color. So, can you help us and our audience understand what is racial socialization and why it's important to identity development for these kids?

Bianka Charity-Parker, PhD: That's such a great question. First fundamental question, what is this thing? It plainly is just how adults in black and brown children's lives communicate messages about race and what it means to be a black or brown person in the world. So when we think about it as a developmental process, we think about it as a racialized version of the talk. You know, when we hear the talk, we think of the birds and the bees typically. And for black and brown families, that conversation is very much focused on, you know, messages that can help provide black and brown children with the confidence, the skills, the knowledge to be able to navigate a racialized society. And the intention of those messages or of this process is to be protective, is to be preparatory. And it's a challenging task that though it's a parenting skill, it's a parenting responsibility that requires a lot of skillfulness, which I'm sure we'll talk more about.

Host 1: The racial climate has prompted discussions about the potential long-term effects of racial socialization on children's mental health, self-esteem and overall wellbeing. How has the racial climate over the last few years informed discussion of racial socialization?

Bianka Charity-Parker, PhD: Yeah. I mean, the events of, you know, the last few years in thinking about the Black Lives Matter movement and the COVID-19 pandemic, I think it did something really interesting where it helped people understand the racialized just undertones of our society in a deep and rich, and I would say also like very frightening way. And so, I think that did sort of pave the way for more explicit conversations about race and racism to be had. And because of the representation that was happening on media platforms and on the news, like everyone was bearing witness to what was happening.

And so, I think there were families basically wanting to know, like how do we talk to our kids about what's happening in the news, what's happening in the world? And for those who were less familiar, more conversations about this topic of racial socialization, which is a term that was coined many years ago, was able to kind of come to the forefront. And even non-black and brown families were able to understand that like generally having conversations about race and what it means to live in a society where race is ever present and the impact of race and racism are ever present were happening. You know, and even non-black families were wondering again about this.

So, I think it did something good in the sense that it put, I would say, racial social researchers on the map in some capacity, where it gave them a platform. I have a mentor, Riana Elyse Anderson. She's an incredible researcher and does a lot of work in racial socialization. I remember seeing her on CNN, being able to communicate and share education about how to have these conversations with children. And so, I think it certainly paved the way for more of these discussions to be happening on a broader scale. I'm also thinking about the work of Ibram Kendi on How to Be an Antiracist. That work bore out of the pandemic and the Black Lives Matter movement, right? And so, now we have a version of that text called How to Raise an Antiracist baby and child. And all of that work is coming from a place of how do we create a society where children and families have an accurate and productive understanding of the role of race in our society and how can we, I would say, raise children from a social justice place of equity and equality.

Host 2: And when you mentioned, you know, families having conversations with their children, can you tell us a little bit about what might that look like? What might this conversation be specifically?

Bianka Charity-Parker, PhD: Great question. So, there are so many different factors that inform how this conversation happens, when it happens, the frequency with which it happens. We know that children's age, their gender, their own experiences with racism can kind of impact how these conversations are had. I think there's a particular extent to which parents' own experiences with racism can kind of be the thing that prompts these initial discussions, is generally wanting them to be proactive, parents wanting to be proactive and having their children understand this. And that, I would say, is probably the most effective stance to take. And then, we also know that children can sometimes prompt or initiate conversations about race based on their own experiences.

And generally, these messages over time have been sort of categorized into four different areas. The most frequent type of racial socialization message are cultural protection or cultural pride messages. So, these are messages that communicate positive feelings about being a black or brown person. There are preparation for bias messages, which you know, are pretty self-explanatory, you know, messages that prepare young people to understand the racial inequities that exist in the world and to be able to prepare them with strategies for managing racial discrimination. There are promotion of mistrust messages which reflect a lack of trust in interracial relationships. And there are egalitarianism messages, which are those that focus on interracial coexistence and harmony and equality. And so, there's a place for each type of message.

And researchers have spent a lot of time trying to understand the cadence with which these types of messages can be most healthy and productive for young people to hear and learn about. We obviously know that young black and brown people having pride in their racial ethnic background is only a good thing, right? And we know that only receiving one type of message in isolation is less helpful more generally, because young people also need to understand the risks that come with stepping outside of their home door in a particular neighborhood or, you know, how to navigate interactions with police. That is a huge part of the proactive racial socialization process, right? What do you do when you're pulled over by a police officer? How do you respond? How do you position your body? All of those things are preparatory and meant to be protective, although we know that some messages can have a less helpful or less protective message, which is where parents' own sense of skillfulness come in.

Host 2: One word I got caught up in, what do you mean by cadence?

Bianka Charity-Parker, PhD: Yeah, sort of like the frequency or the rhythm with which different types of messages are being communicated. So if I were a black parent today and I were solely focused on hearing, "Okay. Helping my child just feel proud to be black, that's my number one priority." So, that is the only message that I'm going to communicate, right? That is both beautiful and important. And there's other work to be done, which is helping them understand the true threats and risks that come with, again, living in a racialized society, right? So again, it's striking a balance of different types of messages is what's recommended.

Host 2: I assume some messages are more helpful than others.

Bianka Charity-Parker, PhD: Absolutely.

Host 2: What's the difference between the helpful ones? And can you give us some examples of that?

Bianka Charity-Parker, PhD: Yeah. Well, I think, again, it's being able to balance communicating the facts, right? To be able to communicate with honesty, that living as a black and brown person in the United States isn't always safe. And I know a message that I heard growing up as a biracial black woman is, "This world was not created for people who look like you and I. And so, we have to navigate every day with caution." So, hearing that message alone is frightening, especially as a young person. And in combination with hearing, "And you are beautiful and have so many strengths and bring so much to this world," right? "And that your ancestors have worked so hard in order for you to have access to the things that you have," hearing that in combination with messages that, "And we still have to be cautious and there are decisions we have to make with more thoughtfulness," that message kind of together, that sandwiching, is more productive and helpful than just hearing, "You can't trust white people," or "If you happen to have a white coach as your field hockey coach, that you really need to be careful because they may be more likely to be discriminatory against you," or like, "We need to watch out," that message alone isn't necessarily helpful in isolation, although there are circumstances where those things are happening and it's important to be able to have that lens with which you can be able to appraise and respond to discriminatory action and behavior that are happening.

Host 1: Well, you raised the issue in your own identity of a mixed race background. And so, for mixed race children, racial socialization at a minimum might involve understanding and embracing their multiple racial heritages. Can you discuss how racial socialization affects mixed race children or black children who belong to non-black families?

Bianka Charity-Parker, PhD: I love this question. This is generally such an understudied area. I think the racial socialization research world, it's growing. And it's so cool to be early in my career and to be a part of just this next wave of researchers in this space. And I've had the privilege to work with colleagues who are doing work that is specific to mixed race identity.

I think biracial and multiracial children typically face a lot of pressure. And I'll kind of insert some of my own personal experiences into some of my response. You know, I think naturally research has found that mixed race or biracial children feel pressure to choose, especially when their parents hold very strong independent views or perspectives on their own personal race or ethnicity. So, what we recommend is that children who belong to a mixed race home have exposure, as much exposure, and as much opportunity to learn about all aspects of who they are. And for parents to be able to model with their own behavior, you know, what it means to be a part of that particular racial group. We also find it helpful for biracial and mixed race children to have exposure in their communities, right?

So again, I think the key word for multiracial and mixed race families and children are to just increase exposure and having access to information that will help them have a balanced sense of self that isn't polarized, because that's where I think more of the challenges come, giving the young person an opportunity to achieve that with all the information they have access to versus sort of being forced or, I would say, generally like feeling the pressure to choose one. But generally, the different types of messages still translate, right? They aren't different. It's just the frequency, the timing of when those messages happen, and also I think like, again, the skillfulness of the parent obviously matters a ton. And when we're thinking about maybe having one parent who is black or brown and having another parent who is non-black or brown, naturally that black or brown parent may be the one to lead the way, and having that be a collaborative effort is very much the most effective approach

Host 1: I know for us in clinical work, it can come up in families who have transracial adoptions. So, one way we've seen it get expressed is white families who adopt a black or brown child. You know, the care with which they navigate that whole process of introducing the child to that aspect of their identity without necessarily having access to models of racial socialization or even people of the same race that can serve as mentors or guides for the children. Do you have any thoughts about that?

Bianka Charity-Parker, PhD: Yeah. I mean, I think that can be a really challenging place to be in as a parent, not having the natural experience to pull from to be able to contribute to the development of your own child. And I think that's where the parent taking up the work for themselves, really understanding their connection to race for themselves is so important to be able to acknowledge what their limitations are, and to be able to like outsource, right? I might not be the one to be able to provide my child with this particular skill or this particular type of experience, what type of other supportive adult or what other type of environment can I allow my child to have access to so that they can have what it is that they deserve to be able to develop a strong sense of self? But there is still a level of skill skillfulness that parents need in order to be able to have these conversations, right? Being white, for example, doesn't preclude you from having conversations about race or being able to think about the different types of messages that we know to be true in the literature about what racial socialization is and to work with supports and allies to be able to come up with what version of this can feel good for me and for our family. Because again, in black and brown families, it is a developmental task, it is a parenting task, and it's addition to all the other stuff.

Host 2: It seems to me that racial socialization should be important for all families, not just black families. Is that your feeling? Is that the case? Or is it primarily for the black or brown child?

Bianka Charity-Parker, PhD: Great question. Historically, the term racial socialization I think bore out of the work being done, you know, in thinking about black families and just, again, this developmental task that happens where parents and other caregivers and family members are helping their child understand, again, what it means to be black, how to respond to living in a racialized society. And I think the more the literature grows, the more we see racial socialization happening in other environments, right? We're seeing it happen in schools. We're seeing it happen on social media, right? We're seeing it happen across ecological contexts that are not specific to parents. So, I would say generally, yes, all families having skillfulness around talking about race, helping children understand the importance of race and how it impacts everyone, even those who are not children of color, right? I think we're beginning to kind of grow into this understanding that it is universally an important conversation to be having.

Host 2: So, racial socialization, if I'm understanding it correctly, is it implies that it's an intentional activity, a planned or thought through interaction as opposed to something that occurs non-verbally or Impulsively. Is that a useful distinction?

Bianka Charity-Parker, PhD: It's actually a great clarifying question. It's both. It can happen explicitly, which I think is typically what we think of when we can consider the benefits of proactive messaging in socialization we're preparing for in advance versus kind of responding to a situation after it's happened. But it can be verbal, non-verbal, explicit, the transmission of those messages, the timing of the messages, the location of the messages. You know, it's generally just communication, how this learning happens, right? And it can happen all different types of ways. But I think the field is certainly wanting to help families understand the benefit of the more proactive direct thoughtful intentional conversation.

Host 1: And just going back a little bit to the idea that, you know, is this something that's important for non-black families as well, I wonder if there's a piece to that for white families who are part of what we can think of as the dominant culture, to have conversations specifically about privilege and have conversations specifically about being a bystander to racism and how you want to help your children navigate that process as well. So maybe, you know, less about the conversation that a black or brown family might have and more the conversation of how do you be an ally?

Bianka Charity-Parker, PhD: And that reminds me so much of the work of How to Raise an Antiracist by Ibram Kendi. He outlines, you know, acknowledge your privilege. Talk to your kids about race; more generally, what it is, what it means. Be a good role model in how you communicate with people of different backgrounds. Anticipate questions and discuss and celebrate differences in diversity, right? So when holidays that are not specific to your cultural background come up, be able to acknowledge those things and help them understand what those holidays represent, right? Or read diverse books to your children, right? Think about having toys in your child's playroom that are diverse, that there are a combination of toys that look like your child and toys that look like children who they may learn to befriend later on, right? Discuss terminology. Look for online resources. Start early, right? And again, the work happens first with the adult. In order the parent or the adult to be able to be that type of ally that we're talking about, they have to be able to understand and also sometimes confront some of the judgments, some of the assumptions that maybe they've had from their own socialization growing up. Because at the end of the day, we're all socialized to think about race in some capacity, right? And that's both with intention or not intention.

Host 1: And so, what factors would you say influence the racial socialization process?

Bianka Charity-Parker, PhD: So, literature tells us that when we think about like gender, for example, we know that mothers are more likely to communicate messages to their daughters, and fathers are more likely to communicate messages to their sons. We know that boys are more likely to receive preparation for bias messages that pertain to racialized encounters needing to be able to be skillful about navigating those situations, right? So, thinking about what it means to have an encounter with the police, that would be a preparation for bias message. And girls are more likely to receive cultural socialization messages that concentrate on racial pride and what it means to feel like a beautiful black woman. Those are things that we've historically been able to learn. And again, there's more work to be done in understanding these different factors.

With regard to age, you know, I think early on, a lot of it is intended to be proactive. But obviously, as children grow older and they begin to have some of these encounters for the first time, the conversation begins to shift maybe away from an emphasis on maybe cultural pride to beginning to help them understand those racialized experiences that they have to be able to interpret and cope with. So, that's when the racial protection messages may be more likely to be happening, or the preparation for bias messages may be more likely to be happening. As I mentioned earlier, having experiences with racism yourself, as a parent, and that's where the parental skillfulness comes in, right? And when we think about this, you know, generally, when we think about a parent having any type of experience that would impact the way that they interact with or communicate with their child, it requires the parent to be able to do their own work so that they can more skillfully and productively help them have a healthy understanding of what the circumstances. Having both experiences as a parent and also the child having experiences themselves can also kind of drive or influence the conversation that's happening.

Host 2: Could you say something, just to give us a taste of what your own research is in this area, what typical project or question you're looking at is?

Bianka Charity-Parker, PhD: Yeah, I love that question. Thank you for asking that. A lot of the work I did in graduate school was around racial socialization. I actually just recently published a paper that looked at basically this question of like, historically, we know that parents are the primary and most salient informants of messages about race to young people. And as we see young people also hearing messages about race and other environments, how do they stack up to the messages that they are receiving from parents. And what the results of this particular study found are that messages received from parents matter above and beyond the messages that they might receive from other aspects of their life, which is a really big message to receive, right? It's both reassuring and a complicated picture.

I am someone who's really interested in parenting and specifically factors that promote positive youth mental health outcomes that come or bore out of young people's relationships with their parents. So, a lot of the work I've done are both complementary to the racial socialization work, but also a bit separate, just kind of boil down to the quality of the parent-child relationship and thinking through factors that promote positive mental health outcomes, including children's relationships with other types of adults. So, that's kind of broadly the work that excites me. And in thinking about black families, racial socialization is a factor or a component of the relationship that can both promote a really healthy relationship because it's protective, and it's necessary for the young person to feel safe for them to be able to grow up and be an independent, psychologically healthy adult.

Host 2: Got it. Very interesting. So, it's for sure seems like that embracing racial socialization, by doing that, all families can celebrate the diversity and promote understanding of their children's racial identities. That's one of the takeaways I have from what you've been saying. Your research sounds like it's integral to highlighting the importance of children developing the skills and perspectives that they need to thrive in a multicultural world while simultaneously fostering a more inclusive society for everyone. So, thank you for this enlightening and important discussion. Is there anything else you would like to add or touch on?

Bianka Charity-Parker, PhD: No, all of your questions were so great. I guess the only thing I would add is that I would just invite listeners, if this is a topic that is interesting to them, to spend more time reading into it and understanding like what version of this concept of how young people can learn about race resonates with them. Even just in thinking about here at Bradley, you know, what does it mean to be a clinician interfacing with a black or brown child or even a non-black or brown child, right? How can having this information inform how I approach working with a child or, you know, getting to know a family? And I think just having access to the language to be able to communicate this awareness that you know this is a developmental process that happens, like how that can help facilitate that initial rapport that you can build with a family or helping understand an important strength that the young person may have, or maybe it's that you're acknowledging or being able to pick up on, you know, some sort of gap in their coping. So, that's something that I would maybe just encourage listeners to kind of think about.

Host 2: Good idea. Well, thanks so much for being here with us. And if you as a listener found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and check out our entire podcast library at bradleyhospital.org/podcast. This is Mindcast: Healthy Mind, Healthy Child, a podcast from the experts on children's mental health at Bradley Hospital. I'm Dr. Greg Fritz with Dr. Anne Walters. Thanks for listening.