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Caitlin Whyte (Host): Welcome to Hally Healthcast, the wellness podcast from Hally Health, your partner in helping you live your healthiest life. Every episode on our podcast addresses a new topic, important to your health and wellbeing; bringing in expert doctors, therapists, nutritionists, and others who offer advice and answer your most pressing questions.

Today, we're talking about body image. Specifically how to help others and our loved ones develop a healthier way to think about our bodies and how they look. The modern culture around us on TV, in movies, on social media and beyond, bombards us with images of bodies whose shapes are to be quite honest, quite unlike the average real life person and the quest to look like these celebrity bodies can be quite unhealthy, both for our physical and mental wellbeing. May is Mental Health Awareness month. A perfect time to talk about body image and its effect on our mental wellbeing. Here with us are two experts, Melissa Smith is a Licensed Dietician, Nutritionist. She is the Director of Nutrition and Behavioral Health for Milestones Nutrition and Behavioral Health, a service of the Stevens family, YMCA in Champagne, Illinois.

And Dana baker is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor and Mental Health Therapist also for Milestones Nutrition and Behavioral Health at the Y. Welcome to you both. And thank you so much for being with us today. So let's begin with a basic but important question. Ms. Smith for our listeners who have perhaps not heard the term before, can you explain what exactly we mean when we say body image?

Melissa Smith, RDN, LDN (Guest): For sure. I mean, I think I would say that the textbook answer is the mental picture that one forms of one's body as a whole. So including its physical characteristics and one's attitudes towards these characteristics. But like how I want to kind of break that down is essentially it's how a person sees themselves, you know, how they feel about their body and its shape and how they physically feel in their body. I often think of it about looking into a mirror. Body image is the way that we internally and externally talk about ourselves based on how we look in the reflection that we see in the mirror.

Host: Thank you. And as a follow-up, what are the factors that influence body image? What things influence, how people think about their bodies?

Melissa: This is a big question. You know, I, my, my dietician brain immediately goes to food and, and specifically like this question being like, what is all involved in a person's own body image. And I think about like a kitchen sink, cookie, like it's like everything, but the kitchen sink, but we're speaking about body image.

So I do feel it doesn't involve the kitchen sink, but it does involve like culture and self-esteem, family values, abuse, trauma, puberty, physical activity, and whether a person has acceptance or rejection in relation to their body, they all play a role in influencing one's body image. One thing that I also would like to kind of speak about is social media. Social media plays a huge role in what many feel like defines beauty and attractiveness.

And in 21st century America, I believe like our access to the daily bombardment of idealized images is just totally enhanced as compared to when it was, you know, 20, 30 years ago. If a person is on social media, it is very hard to escape the pressures of what society is defining as desirable from a body perspective.

One thing that I wanted to speak about was like one of the latest, like incarnations of like the ideal body has been leaning towards like this clean eating movement and like chasing this like lean physique and those individuals that are on social media might know it as fitspo. And it seems to be like this latest craze that we're pushing our body to new limits and that we should eliminate specific foods and only eat whole foods.

And though it may look from the outside of being something, as someone is taking care of themselves, the whole movement still has those like underlying messages that are out there that perhaps we should be striving to achieve a specific look of an athletic toned body to be considered beautiful.

Host: Great explanation thank you. Now Ms. Baker turning to you, as an expert in mental health and wellbeing, can you tell us a bit about healthy and unhealthy body images? What exactly do you mean when you use these terms and how would you describe someone who has a healthy approach to body image?

Dana Baker, MS, LCPC (Guest): Definitely for a healthy body image or kind of body positivity or like body satisfaction, with that, it's kind of a clear, true perception of their shape. Seeing various parts of their body as who they really are, kind of the body positivity are kind of shifting more towards the healthy body image or like body neutrality. It kind of all those types of terms, like intertwined with one another, because some people prefer certain things, but with kind of the healthy body image involves feeling comfortable, confident in your body, accepting your natural body shape and its size and its weight.

Recognizing that physical appearance says very little about your character and your values as a person. So just overall treating it with respect, nourishing it. And it's kind of like the least thing you worry about. If that makes sense throughout your day, you're not constantly thinking about it or trying to hide it, shrink it, whatever that might be.

But that's kind of where my mind goes, when someone has that more of a healthier approach to body image and then kind of on the opposite spectrum of that healthy body image is kind of what a lot of people see now is like the unhealthy or that spide dissatisfaction involves disordered perception of your shape, involves feeling of shame, anxiety, and kind of self-consciousness, low self-esteem. They think they're fl -, their bodies are flawed in comparison to others or less than, and just the overall time consumption, they think about their body. What people like they worry about what other people think about them and just overall wanting to hide, isolate more in that sense where we see a lot too, just especially as you enter puberty and your body changes with age and different things.

There's a lot of dissatisfaction people have. And that's where it can kind of trickle into other aspects of people's lives. And just, I know we'll talk a little bit more about how that can impact their mental health, but I would say a lot more coming through, at least my office door is a lot of body dissatisfaction, body negativity in that sense.

It's kind of rare to find someone who's really kind of has that healthy body image, but it's obviously you can learn to kind of get to that respect you have for your body through other resources and things like that we can discuss.

Host: Wonderful information, Ms. Baker. And Ms. Smith as an expert in food, nutrition, and diet; can you tell us how food ties into body image?

Melissa: When we speak about everything that is involved, that actually shapes one's body image, I think it's really important to mention that every single person has, that is here on this planet struggles with body image. And it's not just white females that are affected by the media and social media's influence.

In the media, we still really don't see a true like cross-section or representation of human bodies. There's a distinct lack of representation of people, of different race and disability, sexuality, and age. And this impacts our preference of, for what we are, what we find appealing in a body. And so when we have a gender or a race that isn't being put out there as often, this can often definitely lead into greater negative body image issues.

Host: Thank you, Ms. Smith. Now, Ms. Baker from a mental health perspective, can you tell us why having a healthier approach to body image is so important?

Dana: Just overall kind of, I mentioned before, like just that self esteem aspect of just when you have that neutral respect and validation for yourself and your body and seeing it, what it does for you and nourishing it in that sense. And like I mentioned before, it's, it takes, you know, you're able to put more time and energy into other things of your values, your work, you know, other things that you enjoy versus having the fixation and obsession around, you know, body and trying to shrink it or what you can and cannot eat, or you can't go to this certain place because you feel that you look a certain way, which is overall having that. Because the relationship with your body is the one relationship you're going to have for the rest of your life. So if you have that respect for it, you have that understanding that, you know, not everybody's gonna look the same. You know, I don't know anyone who has that positive or healthy mindset towards their body every single day, but it's just reminding yourself that in just like certain events, things happen, things change, but you're not punishing yourself by whether it's cutting out certain foods or overexercising and things like that. You're able to cope in a much healthier way versus taking it out on your body, which people who don't have that healthy relationship tend to usually do, or kind of lean towards.

Host: Absolutely. Now with that in mind, Ms. Baker, how can we help ourselves and our loved ones change our ways of thinking to develop more positive, healthier approaches to body image?

Dana: Love this question, because it really comes down to your own attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors around food, weight, body image, physical appearance, health, and exercise. So identifying any of these unhealthy attitudes from dieting, the drive for shrinking your body or thiness or are you having this drive for ideal body and body dissatisfaction. So it's trying to challenge these attitudes in your everyday life. For example, kind of going back to what Mel said about social media. Like if you're editing your photos before posting them on social media, considering why you do so, how do you feel when you do it?

What message are you trying to communicate to yourself and others? So it's honestly examining your thoughts and feelings, is the first step to replacing unhealthy attitudes with healthier ones and being conscious of, you know, criticizing yourself, of your own shape and your body. It's really focusing on the importance of your character and your values versus, you know, always what you look like.

And going back to, you know, with nutrition of mindful eating, having a good balance with movements and exercise that you enjoy. Having that balance and moderation. And not saying you have to punish yourself or that you have to work for something or a treat or things like that. And not treating food as good, bad, healthy, unhealthy as a punishment.

And that knowing that a particular diet or body size will not lead to happiness, it will not fix your body image issues. So it's encouraging, eating in response to hunger and allowing that all foods do fit in your health.

Host: Great advice, ms. Baker. Now Ms. Smith, same question, but perhaps specifically with regard to our relationship with food. How can we change our ways of thinking and develop a healthier approach to food and body image?

Melissa: Yeah, for sure. I feel from the body disatifaction area like individuals that are not satisfied with their body are more likely to skip meals, invest time into the latest fad diet or possibly could remove key ingredients such as like carbohydrates or fats. They may be seeing those as bad foods or won't help them achieve their goals. These behaviors of removing specific nutrients, it's kind of a slippery slope and often breeding grounds for a poor relationship with food, and also can be the onset of disordered eating. And when individuals become enmeshed with changing body shape and weight, we see many people beginning to isolate or avoid socializing with others because during that time it often includes food and perhaps food choices that they have given up to achieve whatever standard they're trying to meet with their body.

And that can begin to take a toll on relationships and affecting our mental health. How one feels about their body can directly impact their food choices and whether they choose to fuel or not. And whether they choose to allow specific foods into their diet or eliminate them, and that can then become a time in a person's life where food is no longer fun and actually is a chore. And I think as Dana was mentioning, a healthy body image is not spending a large exorbitant amount of time obsessing over food. You may think about food 10 to 15% of your day because you're being queued by hunger. Or maybe you have a fun lunch date planned, but it's not, I can have this specific item and I can't have that one.

Host: Excellent advice, Ms. Smith. Okay. Now, a very important question for both of you. Some of those who struggle the most with body image issues are children, adolescents, and teenagers. So how can we help them specifically? Ms. Baker, we'll go to you first. What advice do you have for parents guardians, teachers, adults who interact with these age groups?

Dana: Yeah. And that's it. That is a huge question. And it's something that when I do work with adolescents, it's kind of like a family affair of, you know, when it comes to the adults, it's you setting the example for, you know, these kids and adolescents and teenagers. So if you're setting this example for a healthy and balanced relationship with food and not talking negatively about your body, constantly dieting, encouraging, you know, the next diet fad, or that labeling food good is bad, healthy, unhealthy, or you can't have that. Even though you're not commenting on the child or adolescent's body themselves, they pick up on that. Mom's not eating the same dinner as us because she feels she can't because it's going to make her gain weight. So they internalize that as well if I eat this, I will gain weight. So, you know, adolescents and kids are very smart. They are sponges, even though sometimes we don't always see that or that they're just going through a phase or the teenage rebellion stage, but it's comes down to modeling it for yourself.

And how you, the vocabulary you use in your household, how you view food and just overall, how you talk about your relationship with food, body and overall, like moving and exercise. So it's encouraging kids to see themselves as a whole and their values and their characteristics versus just what they look like. And I know it's so hard with social media today and the comparison and just the, these kids are bombarded with messages daily. So it's really building up their self-esteem, their self-worth, you know, knowing that their value goes way beyond just their appearance. So it's building up their self esteem, that aspect, providing an open space and safe place to talk about these concerns, their struggles, and taking them seriously.

Because a lot of times, you know, parents can be not intentionally invalidating that, oh, like, if there's worse things that could happen or you have so much going on or you're so beautiful, or you're not fat, don't worry. Like these messages are saying, and they want to come and talk to you but sometimes it's not always the easiest thing to do. So, by providing an open, safe place for them to do that when they're ready, knowing that that's an option, that's always a helpful option too. Encouraging coping skills of things that, you know, if they are stressed or if they are struggling with peers, their appearance, with food; it's knowing that they have other coping skills besides trying to take it out on their body or using food as a way to cope in that sense.

But it's coming down to just, I call it kind of caring curiosity of if you notice them maybe their behavior changes or isolating more, or their diet has changed or their appearance is changing. It's coming from a caring place of, hey, I'm noticing this, is everything okay. And just having that space for them to, you know, even talk about when they're ready, can be very helpful in that sense.

Host: And Ms. Smith, your thoughts.

Melissa: Now Dana made some really awesome key points from a modeling perspective. So when it comes to actually food and the food that we keep in our house, in our homes and what we shop for, allowing everyone in the home to have undeniable permission to eat whatever is there, Dana and I work together closely with most of our clients that we share.

And understanding that kids, and even like young toddlers, they have the ability to regulate their hunger and fullness. And so one thing to kind of put out there is to allow a child to explore that themselves, rather than let's say you're at a birthday party. Right. And your child is specifically, they've already had one piece of cake, but they want one more piece of cake. It would be a really great practice just to allow them to grab that other piece of cake. You might notice that your child only consumes two more bites and then runs away to go and play with other kids, whatever they might be doing. And so, allowing them to know that they are able to, and that like all foods fit and all foods are on an even playing ground so that the relationships surrounded around specific foods like cake and cookies and things like that, that often parents may get a little overwhelmed with how to manage with children.

It becomes less of a draw towards that specific food. If you were to open up my pantry, in my house, you would see from top to bottom, there are all foods from quinoa chips to Doritos. Like it's all there. And it's not that I have the cleanest pantry. I have every type of M & M you could ever imagine. And all of the food is open for my children at all times, but through modeling and choosing to throw, you know, fruit on my oatmeal in the morning and speaking in a way about how food tastes versus there's a lot of carbohydrates and sugar in that food and making food more of a, again, Dana used the word family affair.

This is in a positive light, like making food together as a family and making it a place where we can all come together and share and talk about the amazing things that food does for our body and fuels ourself. One thing that I want to also kind of bring in is that from an all foods fit perspective. And I kind of talked about undeniable permission to eat all foods. There's a lot of work in that. Because of how society and social media has kind of put specific food into good foods and bad foods categories. And even in like, if we take our children to a wellness check, right. And they're looking at the growth charts and a Primary care physician might say, now how much sugar are you eating if they notice that the growth chart in the weight category is slightly higher? Well automatically, that could be creating a negative relationship with food, putting more emphasis on it that that specific food is bad. Therefore in the future, or immediately could start cultivating this sort of negative relationship with food and that that specific nutrient or foods that may have that is bad and could be setting up for just not as fun environment with food or relationship with food. And then also just a child in their teens, developing fear of that food. And to start that elimination process of I'm not going to eat these processed foods or these baked goods and so on. And so we can't control everything that is out there and all of the messages that are being put out there, but just making sure that we as a family are modeling.

That it is, as Dana put it, character that we want to focus on and how we interact with others and being kind to one another. And that's kind of what carries us through life and what creates just a genuinely good human being and that the food that we put in our body, yes, there are foods that are nutrient dense and full of energy, that definitely are there for times when we might be in athletics or sporting events. But there's nothing to say that can't have a pizza night every Friday, and that there can't be sweets involved within that and just eliminating the negative conversations surrounding around food.

Host: All such very, very important information and advice. Now our last question, and again, I'll ask both of you for your thoughts and expertise, for our listeners who might be dealing with body image issues or know of a loved one who is, where can they turn to for more help guidance and advice, Ms. Baker?

Dana: First thing that comes to my mind is for the individual or if you notice their child, anything, it is, you know, I said before of that care and curiosity of like, what's going on, what's kind of going on, like at home, in the school, with friends or even in the work environment. Being in the field and being a therapist, I think therapy is always a really good resource to have. And to finding someone that you connect with just to have a safe environment and space to process things, to talk about things that can be challenging or that you're not comfortable with sharing with, you know, your partner or a loved one or family member. So it's finding, you know, that connection with a therapist who could help you kind of explore, you know, maybe something that's going on a little bit deeper than just the body image struggles.

So therapy is definitely a good resource. And with that, you know, it's kind of not an option for everyone just with, you know, insurance companies and things like that. So it's making sure finding, you know, a provider in your network and knowing that you, if you don't connect with a therapist right off the bat, you know, you can change. So it's definitely kind of finding that best fit for you and too with adolescents and kids, you know, it's being involved, but also, you know, allowing them to have their space and their privacy as well. So that's kind of the first thing that comes to my mind, if you yourself are struggling or you kind of noticed your child or niece or nephew or someone very close to you, that might be, and then also from other resources, the National Eating Disorder Awareness website, NEDA, just because it says eating disorder, it goes a lot more than just eating disorders.

You don't have to necessarily have an eating disorder, but this site has great toolkits that really focus in on body image. So there's toolkits for parents, coaches, educators, trainers, in that sense, just for things to be aware of and behaviors to look out for and have those kinds of opening conversations to start out. So that's always a good resource as well.

Host: Thank you, Ms. Baker and Ms. Smith, any more to add?

Melissa: Just to give, I mean, so I know several of the listeners are community members and just to provide shout out, you know, Dana and I are both here at Milestones, a service of the Stevens Family, YMCA, myself being a Registered Dietician and Dana being a Mental Health Therapist and then other providers in the areas such as Kaitlyn Cornell, she owns KC Counseling. Definitely does amazing work with body image and super laid back human being, has some dieticians on staff there. Jenny Cutler, she's a Registered Dietician. She focuses on intuitive eating as well as I do in my practice and sort of the health at every size model.

And Tammy Nell is counselor here in town, Mental Health Therapist that works with clients on body image and disordered eating and everything that surrounds that. And then if an individuals are located on campus at U of I, there is Asin Consultations in Healthcare. That is a practice that has a step up in care. It's an intensive outpatient program where individuals have more hands-on three hours, three times a week with therapists and dieticians to kind of tackle these issues. But all of those community referrals that I listed are not all that are located, you know, that we have available here. There's so many great therapists and dieticians within our community.

The biggest thing is, is what Dana said. It's just that caring curiosity piece as being a parent and just asking how our children, our preteens and teenagers are doing. And if we notice any of our children might be eliminating food groups or their energy is down, they're coming home with a lunch box that's still half full, like just having that caring curiosity to ask about it in gentle ways. And you can access how to have these conversations through the needle website. They do have those tool kits for that. And then in general, if you have any questions or concerns to not hesitate, to pick up the phone, give Dana and I a call. Send us an email. We're open to those types of questions we can direct you to care.

Host: Well, just such encouraging messages to end on. Thank you both so much for sharing your time and your expertise today. You've been such wonderful guests and thanks for all you do every day at the Stevens family YMCA to help so many individuals and families throughout our communities.

That concludes today's Hally HealthCast. Tune in next time as we tackle yet another important topic for your health and wellbeing. And remember Hally Health is your partner in helping you live your healthiest life. Visit hally.com. That's H A L L Y.com for resources, information, tips, and much more. Let us help keep you and your family healthy and well. Thanks for listening. We hope you tune in again.