Scott Webb (Host): Today's podcast is made possible through funding from the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health via the National Children's Center for Rural and Agricultural Health and Safety Emerging Issues Program. Learn more about the Carle Center for Rural Health and Farm Safety by visiting carle.org/farmsafety. That's C-A-R-L-E.org/farmsafety for resources, information, tips, and more. Let us help keep you and your family healthy and safe.

Allowing children to operate tractors and other heavy equipment was a common practice in the past on family farms. Children were a necessary part of the labor required on farms and would be tasked with jobs that did not require strength and endurance. Today, allowing children to operate tractors and machinery may be seen as a rite of passage on some farms. Social media is filled with images of very young children operating large and dangerous equipment. Statistics demonstrate that allowing children to operate tractors and other heavy equipment before they are physically and mentally ready can lead to injuries and fatalities.

I'm Scott Webb, and joining me today are Dr. Aaron Yoder, he's an Associate Professor in the Department of Environmental, Agricultural, and Occupational Health at the University of Nebraska Medical Center, and Ellen Duysen, she's a Community Outreach Specialist with the Central State Center for Agricultural Safety and Health in the Department of Environmental, Agricultural, and Occupational Health at the University of Nebraska Medical Center.

Welcome to Let's Talk with Carle Health, a podcast featuring Carle doctors, partners, and other experts bringing you topics important to your health and wellness.

So, I want to thank you both for joining me today. We're basically going to talk about farm safety as it relates to kids and tractors and all that good stuff. And so, it's great to have you on. Great to have your expertise. I'm going to start with you, Ellen. wondering if you can point to some statistics that demonstrate the risk to children from operating tractors and equipment before they're mentally and physically ready.

Ellen Duysen: We really don't have a great or any national database that tracks youth who have been injured while working on the farm. We can track those that have fatalities. But as far as injuries, we really have to rely on things like news clips and maybe trauma data and some other ways of tracking youth that have been injured. But what we do know is that, for instance, between 2011 and 2020, agriculture had the highest number of occupational fatalities across all industries, across every industry, for youth age 17 and younger. So, that is a statistic that's pretty unfortunate, very sad statistic there. And then, looking back a little bit, but in 2016, we know that youth workers had about eight times, they were eight times more likely to have a fatal injury in ag, compared to all other industries as well. And of those youth, about 47% of those incidents involve transportation and tractors. And Aaron and I are working very hard here in Nebraska, and there's lots of other folks throughout the U.S. and internationally that are working very hard to reduce these numbers.

Host: Yeah. The numbers are certainly alarming, as you said. And we'll try to get to the bottom of this today and do the best we can to educate folks. And Aaron, wondering, maybe specifically, what are some of the safety risks related to the equipment operation?

Dr. Aaron Yoder: Traditionally, what we've seen in agriculture is tractors being the leading cause across all age groups. Different types of injuries depending on the age group sometimes. So, you know, with older machinery operators, we see rollovers being the leading cause. We see a significant amount of tractor rollovers in the younger age groups too, but we also see injuries like runovers are being crushed by. Sometimes these machines have extra operators on them that shouldn't be on there or bystanders riding on that fall off and get run over, or that they are helping hitch other equipment to the tractor and get crushed in that case. So, tractors are the big one.

But then, we also have the other mobile and farmstead equipment, so think of augers or other machinery that's used around the farm, stationary equipment. And being entangled in those or being around them while there's moving parts that we can get caught in is sort of the next one we see with the youth operators. So when we talk about the hazards, we also like to talk about, "So, how do we prevent this stuff?" And I know we'll probably get to that in a little bit. But tractor rollovers, we know roll bars and seat belts are the most effective way. So if there's one thing we can do to prevent some of these major risks that we see, it's having roll bars and seat belts on our tractors.

Host: Yeah. As you say, rollovers, it's just sort of the nature of the beast, the nature of the business, but seatbelts, bars, anything that we can do. And we're definitely going to get to that. You know, not just identifying the risks, but how do we, you know, sort of deal with them and avoid them. And Ellen, back to you, I know that operating equipment can cause children mental and emotional stress. Wondering if you can talk about that a bit.

Ellen Duysen: Thanks, Scott, for this question, because it is something that maybe we, as parents, don't think about all the time. I raised three rascally boys on a hog operation. And we get busy. We are under pressure as the producers and sometimes may not think about or recognize some of the stress in our kids and some of it that may be caused by, you know, the jobs and the tasks that we've asked them to do.

So, some of that mental and emotional stress may come from a number of different factors. For instance, you know, some of our kids may really have a fear of death or injury, and that can lead to anxiety and stress. If they feel like they have not been adequately trained or maybe not being supervised, that can really make this a bigger issue with them. And, you know, one thing we can do is if they're going to be operating this equipment, they have to be aware of all the hazards. So, we can't not talk about it, but what we can do is talk about how they are going to work safely and reduce this risk and give them some tools to help them reduce the fear of this, because we can't tell them that they aren't going to be injured because we know the statistics are there. So, how can we help them reduce that stress?

And then, there's also, and I can relate to this, the pressure to perform well. You know, we're busy, right? And we need to meet deadlines. We need to handle complex tasks with operating this equipment, but there's a deadline. It may be harvest, it may be planting. In our situation, we may have had a whole barn full of hogs farrowing on the same day. So, how can we talk and recognize this stress in our youth? You know, when you look at your child, is there something that tell how do I know that my child is stressed. And in that case, can I walk it back a bit? Maybe they don't need to be out there during harvest. Maybe they could have another task if they are not ready emotionally and mentally to handle the pressures during harvest or planting or some of these really high stress times.

And then also, youth may feel stressed when they face unfamiliar equipment or tasks. And this is where we really, really stress training, right? Because you're in one tractor and know how to operate one tractor, all that means is you know how to operate one tractor. You know, just that one, because tractors are so different. So, the equipment that I have operated, there's a lot of equipment I couldn't step into today, and it's the same with our kids. We can't have that expectation that because they know one, they know them all. So, taking the time to train, letting them ask questions, and never making them feel like those questions, you know, are stupid. Same thing in education, everyone needs to ask and have their questions answered.

And then, you know, heavy workloads, again, the expectations, we have to sometimes step back a little bit from that. And then if they feel isolated, in our case, if there was going to be some supervision, you know, it would have been better to have maybe one of our hired folks supervise our kids, because we may have put more expectations on them. So, think about in your own operation, maybe there is someone other than mom or dad that needs to be doing the training and the supervision. Sometimes that's not a possibility and you're going to have to kind of work in keeping your expectations down a little bit.

And then, one other thing, I think, witnessing accidents or incidents, or experiencing traumatic events while operating equipment can really have a lasting psychological effect on our young workers. And the training that Aaron and I do with our tractor safety course, we do not ever let a student walk out of there without knowing basic first aid. They know how to stop the bleed. They know how to contact someone, you know, in case of an emergency. And what this does is it empowers them and allows them to not feel like if there is an incident that they are powerless. So, giving our students some tools to work with will also help them reduce their stress and help them grow mentally as well.

Host: Yeah, because as you say, accidents and injuries happen, unfortunately, so preparing them for those, you know, sort of worst case scenarios, stop the bleeding, whom to call and so forth. Just want to stay with you, Ellen. What are some of the social and mental milestones that you could point to that let us know as parents or guardians that our child is mature enough to operate tractors and machinery?

Ellen Duysen: So, we know that our neurologists and those folks that really understand how the brain develops, tell us that the prefrontal cortex, that's that part right at the front of our brains here. And that's what is responsible for good decision-making, impulse control, judgment. That part of our brain continues to develop into our early and mid-20s. And we know that males, that part develops a little later than females. I mean, one that's raised kids may recognize that as well. But we have to keep that in mind. When we're allowing our youth to operate large and, you know, potentially dangerous equipment, we have to think about that development. And parents out there, as I'm talking about this, ask yourself, "Does my child meet some of these cognitive or brain milestones?" For instance, does your child understand how that equipment works? Can they follow instructions? Do they solve problems and can they make critical decisions? You know, if not, this may not be the right time for them to be operating heavy equipment. Does your child have great hand-eye coordination, dexterity, strength, and agility? And proper training, I think Aaron's going to discuss later, you know, how developmentally you can help your child by starting them with small tasks.

And I did ask Aaron if I could share this slide. I really thought this was wonderful. So, part of our tractor training course, our students have to back up a trailer with a tractor into a small chute. And it's a tough thing for a lot of our students. And most of these students are 14 and 15 years old. So, he had asked one of the students prior to getting on the tractor if they had ever backed up before, and they said no. And so, you know, he prepared himself for a long stretch out there assisting. And this student went right out and got that tractor, backed right into the chute, and no problem at all. So when he got off the tractor, Aaron asked him, how'd you do that? And he said, "Oh, well, I play VR with a tractor simulator, and I backed up lots of stuff on VR." So, you know, maybe even thinking in terms of how are we going to prepare our kids by using other means, right? So, maybe even VR is going to help with some coordination, at least brain coordination anyway.

Host: Yeah.

Ellen Duysen: And then, does your child recognize potential dangers? Not all children react well to stress under pressure, right? Does your child? Could they stop the bleed if they needed to? Do they know basic first aid? So, teaching them these things, you know, may help them become, in addition to training, more aware of safety. And then, does your child pay attention to details? Children may not be able to focus at the task at hand. If not, this may not be the perfect time to put them in a high stress situation.

And then, you know, talking about relationships, you know, communication relationships. It is critically important that your child has effective communication skills, especially when they're working in a team or, you know, where something really, really bad could happen. Do they trust their supervisors? Could they come and talk to you without fear of someone yelling? Being a parent on the farm, this was something that we had to work very hard at, is keeping our cool when things went south when our kids were doing it.

Host: Well, you mentioned the rascals that you had.

Ellen Duysen: Believe me, that's a whole 'nother podcast.

Host: I imagine there may have been a fair amount of yelling, as you said. But you suggested earlier that maybe mom and dad shouldn't always be, you know, the supervisors, right?

Ellen Duysen: Oh my goodness, yes. I would go to school and these teachers would describe to me, you know, how my boys were so polite. And I don't think they know who they're talking to. They've got the wrong kids.

Host: I've had the exact thing. I'm like, "Are you talking about my son? Are we sure? Are we sure we're talking about right person here?"

Ellen Duysen: Right. Because our kids, not only do they act differently, but they react differently around people who are not their parents. And then, just one other thing is, is your child able to adapt and change and handle unexpected situations?

Working in agriculture is all about adaption, right? We have to adapt to the weather, we have to adapt to maybe a piece of equipment that is broken down, so we have to move or we have to change our plan for the day. And if they can't do that, that's going to be really tough. And helping them understand and helping them with some coping skills as well is really going to go a long way to keeping them safe.

Host: Yeah. A lot of improvisation for sure. Wondering, Aaron, referencing their 14, 15 year olds for this course that you guys offer, are there some laws that govern like the minimum age that a child has to be before they can operate tractors and equipment?

Dr. Aaron Yoder: For sure, you know, laws and regulations are sometimes the last thing we want to think about, but most of them are there for a good reason. And we think about a lot of the workplace safety stuff in other industries, in other places, and regulatory compliance is normally where people are at with their best practices, "I want to do the minimum to comply with the regulations," but that has made a lot of workplaces safer, where agriculture is a little bit different because it may not have as many regulations. But in this area, we do have some, and most of those are at the federal level. Some states have more stringent regulations. And if we understand how laws and regulations work, that sometimes the state policies or the state regulations supersede the federal ones.

But we'll start with the federal ones as far as sort of a best practice or a minimum area. There's also the conversations around, you know, who does this apply to. Oftentimes, the federal regulations come from the Department of Labor, which means there needs to be an employee-employer relationship, which oftentimes excludes family farms that have children and other people working on them. These regulations are the best practices. So if there's a regulation out there and something bad happens on your operation, whether you're supposed to fall under it or not, the lawyers and the other people are going to look at that regulation and say, "Well, this is the best practice, why weren't you following it?"

So with that preface, saying, you know, what those laws are. So, the biggest ones under the Fair Labor Standards Act, again, from the Department of Labor. And what this does is make sure that, you know, especially school-age children and youth aren't working when they should be in school. So, there's some hour regulations and other things like that, as well as a specific list of tasks that youth under 16 should not be doing. So, they have some specific agricultural tasks there. And just to give you an idea, it's things like not operating tractors over 20 horsepower. And we all know enough about tractors that riding lawnmowers these days go over 20 horsepower. So, there's not much agricultural machinery that's under that 20-horsepower limit. And then, there's other machines like combines and hay mowers; animal hazards, working with bulls or mothers that have young, we know they get super protective; doing some timbering work, not being off the ground over 20 feet; riding on tractors or transporting workers with tractors and machinery; confined spaces like grain bins; chemicals, for our good fortune, we don't use blasting agents much anymore. The first time I read this and I'm like, "What do we do with blasting agents?" But that's how we used to get rocks out of fields, right? We'd blow them up when we didn't have the big machinery. And then finally, anhydrous ammonia is something we see used a lot. So, those super hazardous tasks, they've listed some of those out. Like I said before, best practices, guidelines, what we shouldn't have our youth doing.

The one exception to that is like we mentioned, our tractor safety training program. So, there's they call it the Hazardous Occupations Order in agriculture, and it lists some exemptions. So, you can allow 14 and 15-year-olds to do some of these tasks specifically related to tractors and machinery if they've gone through a certain amount of training. So, this training has to do with, you know, tractors and machinery, and the guidelines for this were written in the '70s. So, there's some imperfections there based on agriculture's changed a little bit in 50 years. But the general gist of it is, you know, to operate tractors and machinery, you need roughly 20, 24 hours of training, which is like the classes we do. These classes and exemptions also apply to people that have gone through trainings in ag education, and ag educators, and then through the extension service like our partners here in Nebraska that we work with to do that. So, that's sort of the biggest law of regulation, best practices. We can talk for hours on who it applies to and who it doesn't apply to. But bottom line is, It's the best practice to do that stuff.

Host: Yeah. And you referenced training there and that there are some exemptions if some teenagers have gone through some of the training. So, let's talk about that. Let's talk about the training that's available for children who inevitably will be working on the farm.

Dr. Aaron Yoder: I've worked in this area for many years now in several different states. So I know every state kind of handles this a little bit differently. Like I mentioned, that main exemption that if you've gone through the training, you get a certificate that you share with your employer, you can keep one for yourself and then, you know that you're covered with that. And the employers are aware that they're covered with that. It's a very not well-known law or regulation. So, most people don't know that it exists, so we do try to promote that. But that training can come through, like I mentioned, the Ag Educators and FFA programs are a great place. Agricultural Extension from our land grant universities in every state, as well as through their 4H programs, which are part of that. We've got a great collaboration here between our medical center at the University of Nebraska and our Ag Safety Center that we have here with Nebraska Extension. So, we go around the state and do this training for the youth. Those are the only two bodies that are allowed to do this exemption training based on the regulation I mentioned from the '70s. We can have other people help us train, but the person that signs those certificates has to be part of ag education or part of the extension system. So, those are the first places I would say.

There are some online programs, and we use those as part of our instruction. They don't get you to the point where you have the exemption. I mentioned the family kids and other people that might be working in agriculture, people that are over that age limit that don't really need that certificate, but could still benefit from the training. So, Ag Safety for You is one online course we have through extension.org. And then, there's Gearing Up for Safety out of Purdue University. Those are two of the big online ones that we see as a great resource for doing these type of trainings.

Host: Yeah. And as you say, so much has changed since the '70s. And now, we're hearing about kids showing up, backing things into stalls, thanks to virtual reality and sort of like video games. So, lots of ways that folks, kids and otherwise, can train and practice all that good stuff. Are there any other legal issues, Aaron, when it comes to hiring children? We've talked about some of the federal regulations and things, but what other types of issues might there be?

Dr. Aaron Yoder: Yeah. We know there's an increase in demand in the labor force. Unemployment rates are low. Agricultural operations are having difficulty finding the employees that they typically would hire in the past. So, we're seeing more demand for youth labor, whether that'd be in other industries, but also in agriculture. I know myself having some teenagers that the youth would like to work. They want to start making money. They want to be able to pay for their Xbox subscriptions and that kind of thing. So, it's a good time to talk about that, but there are those legal issues.

The biggest ones are those Fair Labor Standard Acts. But a lot of times, as much as we don't like to use the word OSHA, and I remind people it's not a four-letter word, it's a four-letter acronym. But anyhow, and I mentioned before, where are those best practices and what laws could be opposed there. So if you're hiring anybody to work for you, you're underneath some of those. And there's, you know, confusion about small farm exemptions, not having to follow OSHA regulations and other things like that. But everybody really needs to be following them, and they can use those against you if something bad does happen. They don't have money to come out and inspect farms, and that's where the exemption kicks in. They're not allowed to inspect farms unless something bad happens. So being aware of all the OSHA regulations that are out there, and there are specific agricultural regulations under OSHA. There's grain handling regulations under OSHA. Unfortunately, we see a lot of youth being injured in grain handling equipment and grain bins and that sort of thing. So, making sure you're aware of all those standards that are out there. Some are best practices, some are voluntary standards, but those OSHA standards are ones that we all need to be complying with.

And then, some states have additional regulations. I know some of the western states, I think Oregon and Washington specifically, where they have some limits that you have to be 18 to do certain tasks on farms or even to be employed in certain types of agriculture. So, being aware of those national regulations are good. But then also if you have state-based regulations, some states have their own OSHA, which has more stringent regulations than the federal OSHA would. So, I would say the Fair Labor Standards Act and OSHA are probably the two biggest. But then going back to that Fair Labor Standards Act for what hours youth are allowed to be working during the school year when the school year's over and on weekends, other things like that. So, being aware and being used to, and a lot of school systems will help you out with that, because you may need to get a work permit through the school, or the youth do, before they should be employed anywhere.

Host: Just want to come back to you, Ellen. We've talked about injuries. Maybe what other health concerns should parents, guardians, and employers be aware of when it comes to children driving tractors and using that heavy equipment?

Ellen Duysen: There is a bunch of them. But some of the ones that we really focus on and talk about, you know, we think about long-term consequences. And, you know, when we ask our students, how many of you have a parent, a grandparent, someone in your family, aunt, uncle who has had significant hearing loss because of their work on the farm, those arms just shoot up. Everyone's aware of it. So, we talk a lot about protecting our hearing and we call it hearing conservation, and we will demonstrate to our students about all the different types of really, really advanced now hearing protection that they have available that is not only convenient, but getting really affordable. We promote noise-canceling earbuds and ear muffs. Something where our students can still hear what's going on outside until that noise level or decibel level gets over 82. And then, that shuts down and acts like hearing protection. So, we don't have that old excuse of, "Hey, I can't wear these because I can't hear. You know, what's going on? I can't hear instructions?"

Host: Right.

Ellen Duysen: And so, really, the hearing protection is something that we all need to be, as parents and guardians, we need to be talking to our kids about. And then, you know, slip, strips, and falls, that's a huge issue for injuries and fatalities in agriculture. You know, I think you can imagine what we're working in, right? Here in the Midwest, we recently had a big snow and we're in calving season. You not only have to worry about slipping on that snow, but you've got all kinds of stuff that's come out of that cow that may also be slick. So, we talk to students and really remind people that your footwear is essential. You know, we have some kids out in our western Nebraska area that really want to wear cowboy boots, 24/7, 365, and need to tell them that they do have to keep their footwear in mind as they're going out and doing specific tasks. So, we want to see some good tread on those shoes, good tread when you're getting on and off that tractor because that is one place where we do see a lot of slips and falls.

And then, respiratory protection is essential. When you think of, out there in the fields, you know, we may have exposures to things. During planting season, we may be talking about just dust. But then, we also know during harvest, we've got other concerns. If our corn is out of condition or other crops are out of condition, we may be talking about mold. So, we remind everybody and our students and remind our parents right now that if you can see dust in the air, or what you think is dust in the air, make sure that you are protecting yourself and your kids with the correct respiratory protection, because we need to protect those lungs, especially in these young folks that still have great, great healthy lungs, right? So, they can up with those at my age.

And then, of course, I always want to talk about sun safety because we know that there is a high rate of skin cancer in our ag communities, and it starts right now with our youth. And the baseball caps are still exposing our ears, our nose, the back of our neck, so we would love to see full-brimmed hats on all of our folks, not just our youth, but our adults as well, who are out and exposed to the sun during work or play or wherever you are. Make sure you're keeping that skin covered.

And then, just one more thing, remember those cell phones need to be not used when we're operating this equipment. And that is something you need to talk to your youth about, that just like when they're operating a car. Many of us have seen these TikTok videos where these folks are in their tractor cabs and engaged in social media one way or another, and not paying attention to what's in front of them. Just like in any motor vehicle, it can cause some dire consequences. So, turn those cell phones off and be great examples, right? We need to model. Everything we've been talking about on this podcast needs to be modeled by us.

Host: I really appreciate your time today. I just want to finish up with you, Aaron. Just wondering what resources are available to parents to help them make those decisions about when it's appropriate to let our kiddos operate equipment?

Dr. Aaron Yoder: I mentioned we worked at a NIOSH center. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health funds these agricultural health and safety centers around the country. There's one in Marshfield, Wisconsin that focuses on youth in agriculture. So, they have a great website called cultivatesafety.org that has some of these, they call them agricultural youth work guidelines. And these guidelines talk about much of the stuff that we talked about today on the podcast and give good guidance. There's as much reading as you want to do on the social and mental and physical abilities of youth and what would be good guidelines. They have some suggested ages for different tasks. Knowing that all youth develop a little bit differently, like Ellen mentioned in her development side, sometimes males, females, just people that are exposed to different things. We develop based on what we're exposed to. So, they have some great guidelines there.

And then, like I mentioned, the NIOSH Ag Centers, there's the rest of us around the country in different regions. We have one here in Omaha, there's one over in Iowa City, down in Kentucky and Florida, so different parts of the country. And we all have outreach programs that have some great resources on specific topics. You know, Ellen mentioned sun safety, heat safety is a big deal, depending on where you're located or the time of the year. Here in Nebraska, it's everything from wintertime safety and our sub zero temperatures. And then in the summertime, we get up over 100. So then, we're talking about heat illness. So, there's some great resources there when we talk about all of those.

The training programs I mentioned, the Gearing Up for Safety, the Ag Safety for You, and the National Safe Tractor and Machinery Operation Program, they all have some good guidelines for supervisors and for parents. And then, one thing I like to do, you know, we can throw out a lot of statistics, but if you throw out a statistic that's not 100%, people identify with the other part of the statistic. So if we say, you know, half of people die in a tractor rollover, they say, "Well, I'll be in that other 50%." But what really we find helps is case studies. So, how can we tell a story that is similar to that person or to that youth? So, there's some great resources out there to find those stories to educate people with. So, telling the story project we have through our NIOSH Ag Centers. And then, there's Ag Injury News, which collects all these different types of injuries so we can use those as training opportunities and see what the age of our children might be getting into and what type of injuries are they experiencing. So, I think that's, you know, an important part of that, is finding these resources. It's not something people oftentimes reach out and look for. So I guess I would encourage supervisors and others that are working with youth to make the effort to do that.

Host: Yeah. Well, that's great advice. As I said, this has been really educational today and a bit of fun along the way, talking about our own kids and having a laugh or two. So, I really hope that listeners found this information really educational and helpful. Lots of tips and suggestions and resources. So, all good stuff and thank you both.

Dr. Aaron Yoder: Yeah. Thank you.

Ellen Duysen: Thank you, Scott.

Host: Again, that's Dr. Aaron Yoder and Ellen Duysen. And remember, you can count on Carle. Learn more about the Carle Center for Rural Health and Farm Safety by visiting carle.org/farmsafety. That's C-A-R-L-E.org/farmsafety for resources, information, tips, and much more. If you found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and check out the entire podcast library for additional topics of interest. I'm Scott Webb. Thanks for listening and join us next time on Let's Talk with Carle Health.