Trisha Williams: Welcome to the third season of the
Advanced Practice Perspectives. I'm Trisha Williams.

Tobie O'Brien: And I'm Tobie O'Brien. This is a
podcast created by advanced practice providers for advanced practice providers.
Our goal is to provide you with education and inspiration. We will be chatting
with pediatric experts on timely key topics and giving you an inside look at
the various advanced practice roles at Children's Mercy.

Trisha Williams: We are so glad that you are joining
us today. So sit back, tune in and let's get started. Today, we are pleased to
have Robin Ferguson. Robin works in the organizational development department
of Children's Mercy and is the founding member of the leadership coaching
collective in Children's Mercy's internal leadership coaching program. We are
privileged to chat with her today about how we all can be leaders. Welcome to the
podcast, Robin.

Robin Ferguson: And thanks for having me. And you
left out the most important part, I'm also a nurse.

Trisha Williams: I did leave out the most important
part. You are a nurse. Absolutely.

Robin Ferguson: Yeah. Once a nurse, always a nurse,
right?

Trisha Williams: Absolutely.

Tobie O'Brien: Well, we are thrilled that you are on.
Trisha has spoken so highly of you. And so I'm so excited to get to hear more
about all of the wisdom that you have for us. So, first of all, let's start by
having you tell us more about yourself.

Robin Ferguson: Yeah. Well, I will say it's been kind
of a winding road to get to this place. I'm a big believer in reinventing
yourself on a regular basis. So, that process of learning and growing of human
beings is always an important one. But yeah, I started my career in nursing. So
I started at Children's Mercy as a nurse tech when I was in nursing school and
I've been a nurse in the intensive care nursery, helped open an urgent care and
then have also worked with teens. So I kind of worked my way up the age level.

And then, I left nursing and went to seminary and became a
minister. So, I started a church, ran that church for almost seven years and
then moved from that into consulting. So I was working with ministers that were
trying to grow their church, working with boards. And that's where I really
started to develop a passion for leadership development because when going from
nursing to ministry, I had no idea really. I'd done some charging and things
like that, but I didn't really know what it took to be a good leader. And so
having had to learn that myself the hard way, grew a passion for helping others
to develop as leaders, and so became a leadership coach at that point in time
and started really working with leaders and boards around, you know, what our
most effective practices and how do you be a great leader. And that's what led
me back to Children's Mercy, because my passion for this organization stems
from when I was a nursing student. And so it's just changed forms, but I still
so believe in our providers and all our leaders in this organization set a tone
for our whole organization that impacts our families and our children. And so
that's how I got here.

Trisha Williams: Quite the journey for sure.

Robin Ferguson: Yeah.

Trisha Williams: I think I want to really start off
with talking about advanced practice as leaders and how we empower ourselves as
leaders. Because if we don't have the title of leadership, we are innately not
seeing ourselves like that. We see ourselves as boots on the ground, getting
jobs done, and we're not a leader unless we have that in our title.

And I heard a quote once that I just loved and it's author
is unknown, but the quote says, "To be a leader is not to have a huge
position. To be a leader is to see your job as a chance to inspire the world no
matter what your job is." And I truly feel like advanced practice
providers can change the world in so many ways. So help us see ourselves as
leaders. What would be your advice?

Robin Ferguson: Yeah. Well, I believe everybody has
the opportunity to be a leader and that quote so embodies that idea. Leadership
is really about influence. So it's looking at what is your sphere of influence
and who's around me, who do I work with every day, even in our families and our
communities. Even in the grocery store, standing in line, we always have an
opportunity to influence people in a positive way. And so effective leadership
is really about being aware and conscious of that idea, that every interaction
I have, whether that be with a patient, a family, you know, a fellow provider,
staff that I'm working with, that I have an opportunity influence their day,
their work, and what do I want to do with that power.

And so it really is, especially as providers, you have teams
of people that are looking to you for guidance, certainly in patient care, but
you also are modeling what it means to be in that position of power we'll say,
influence for sure. And so what are you going to do with that influence? And so
to me, whether you're an individual contributor or you're a CEO, that idea of
waking up in the morning and thinking, "Okay, where can I have influence
and how can I make positive change in the world in which I'm operating every
day?" So, just keeping that awareness in the forefront of our mind, I
think, is the most powerful way we can show up as leaders.

Trisha Williams: That is perfect. The ability to
influence and use your power to influence others and have a positive effect on
their daily work, their daily life, is really the true meaning of leadership,
regardless of who you are within an institution and then, especially as
providers, what we can do with our team and our patients and how we can affect
the overall culture of the institution is pretty empowering.

Robin Ferguson: Yeah. And one of the things that I've
recognized as I've coached clinical leaders and having a clinical background
myself, we're really starting to shift our culture here at Children's Mercy to
one where leaders are also coaches. And so coming from that coaching mindset
and skillset, obviously, there's those of us that are professionally certified
and do that on a regular basis. But it is that idea that we are empowering
people and the people around us.

And one of the things that I've noticed is that, as clinical
people, we're natural problem-solvers. So, that idea of we come in, we look at
what are the symptoms, we diagnose, we look at what are the treatment options,
and we work to fix things and make people better. And that's great on that
level. In leadership, that can sometimes get in our way, because we tend to be
fixers then, and we tend to problem-solve for people. And as we look at the
changing landscape and evolution of leadership, what we're seeing is that
moving towards more of a coaching style, where instead of being the problem
solvers or having the immediate answer, that we ask more questions and that we
begin to empower people in a way that helps them problem-solve for themselves
and develop those skills. And that's fairly new in the leadership realm, in our
organization. It's a fairly different approach, but it's one that allows people
to feel more engaged, to feel like they have a voice in what's happening. And
so moving to that space of, you know, one of our values is curiosity, so moving
to that place of curiosity and, again, like how can I mentor this person? How
can I coach this person instead of just immediately giving them the answer or
advising or fixing? It's counterintuitive sometimes to our clinical mindset, but
it's so important to be aware.

Trisha Williams: Well, and it's important to be
respectful to the adults that we work with because everybody in the workforce
is adults. And so instead of fixing, it's important to empower and help them
grow as well.

Robin Ferguson: Yeah, absolutely.

Tobie O'Brien: How do we enrich that culture within
our group of just trying to think, "Well, you do have this ability, but
you do have to somewhat be intentional about it"?

Robin Ferguson: Yeah, it certainly takes intention on
everybody's part who wants to make a positive impact on what they do. And we're
all human. So, I certainly forget that on a regular basis and when I'm stressed
or irritated or whatever, so we have to allow ourselves grace in that process.
But it's the same way we would approach patient care. We wouldn't walk into a
room and look at a child that we're caring for and start being critical or
demanding things of them or saying, "Here's what you need to do." We
would ask questions and we would get curious about what's going on and we would
explore like what's important to you in your life because obviously if you
prescribe something or want them to follow a treatment plan, you know, we have
to understand what's important to them and what's going to impact that and
what's gonna get in the way, but yet we don't have that same mindset sometimes
when we're interacting with each other.

So, to me, everybody being a leader is coming from that
mindset of, "If I cared about this person, like I cared about my patients,
how would I treat them?" I would be respectful. I would wonder about,
"What is stressing them that might be getting in the way of their day?
What can I do to be helpful? How can I communicate more clearly? How can I ask
questions so I understand where they're coming from.?" So, you know, it's
not that difficult to practice if we just kind of flip that switch and think in
terms of same way we go about patient care, really.

Tobie O'Brien: I love that. I was thinking too about
how you never really know what someone has gone through. So I always think
about how easy it is for me to feel like, "Ah, I can't believe that
someone is acting this way." But if I stop to think, well, what happened
to them before they got to this point in their interaction with me, like, did
they, you know, wake up and everything went wrong in their day up until this
point. And so I have to stop and tell myself that a lot, whenever I might be
having somewhat of a negative interaction with someone. And I think that really
helps because then all of a sudden I'm trying to be more understanding and
less, I guess, reactive.

Robin Ferguson: Yeah, for sure. And we have this
concept of assuming positive intent that we're working on really getting in our
culture. So when I start making up stories about why this department didn't do
that or this person interfered with my work or my day or whatever, I can take a
step back and say, "Okay. If I'm going to assume positive intent here,
that they didn't mean harm, that they were trying to do their job, maybe they
have their own stressors, it just helps me get in a more curious mindset and
say, "Okay, tell me more about what happened here or where you're coming
from." And so, yeah, I think that's big.

Trisha Williams: One of the things that I remember
you and I talking about, Robin, in the past is what motivates people to show up
to work. So some people are very task-oriented and some people are very
relationship-oriented. And sometimes if you have one of both, there tends to be
Some conflict. And so just realizing the type of person that you're working
with, are they relationship-building or task-oriented and just keeping in mind
that everybody strives on different things, I think, has also been very helpful
for me too. And I think that if I show up to work, knowing that, "Okay,
this person's very relationship-oriented. Okay, how was your day? How was your
weekend? How was your day?" And then, everything just goes smoothly
throughout the day, just by asking those couple of questions, because I'm very
task-oriented. I have lists, I check things off. I'm there to do my work and
get out. But if I come to work and I don't build those relationships with those
relationship-building people, then I come across very assertive and aggressive
and I don't care. And that's definitely not. It I'm just very task-oriented.

Tobie O'Brien: And I'm relationship-oriented, Trisha.
That is why we're ying and yang.

Trisha Williams: That's why we're the yin and the
yang, Tobie.

Robin Ferguson: That's a great balance.

Trisha Williams: Yes, ma'am.

Robin Ferguson: Yeah. Well, yeah, I think it's
exactly what you're saying, just being aware that we're not all wired the same.
And nobody, maybe a few people, but very rarely do people wake up in the
morning and be like, "I'm going to make everybody around me miserable and
I'm going to make their work harder." No, I mean, we all start out with
positive intent, right? That I want to do a good job and I want to get along
with the people I work with. We inadvertently interfere with that intention
sometimes because we don't have that awareness of what is our natural style and
maybe somebody else's style is different. And, even asking those questions,
like what works for you? In our communication, what's helpful? How can we make
this process easier for both of us?" and just being able to ask those
questions. Because you're right, if you're relationship-oriented and somebody
comes in and starts barking off, here's what we need to get done today and
doesn't say good morning, then you're going to be offended and probably in a
bad mood the rest of the day and angry at them. And the same token, if you're a
relationship person and you're going on and on about your weekend and your
vacation plans, the other person who's task-oriented is probably tapping their
foot, like, "Come on, let's get down to it." So yeah, just honoring
that balance.

Tobie O'Brien: Tell us a little bit about this
CliftonStrengths Assessment, will you?

Robin Ferguson: Sure. Yeah. I love CliftonStrengths.
It's decades old. So it was started by a psychologist, Don Clifton, who looked
around in the world of psychology and said, "Wow, it seems like
everybody's focusing on what's wrong with everyone. What if we focused on what
was right with them?" And so he eventually collaborated with the Gallup
Organization, which as you know is famous for their research and polling and
surveying and that kind of thing and they began to study effective leaders. So
it was really based in leadership, although like I said, it's sort of this idea
that everybody's a leader. This can be applied to anyone in their life. But
it's an assessment that they have identified 34 strengths that they have seen
across various populations, various cultures. So you know, a lot of different
groups of people that have these 34 common strengths, and you can take the
assessment and find out your top five, or you can get all 34.

But it is the idea that when we recognize what our natural
strengths are, that we can make choices in our life about the work that we do,
about our relationships, about even our downtime and how we rejuvenate that are
aligned with our natural strengths. And it's sort of like if you are using your
dominant hand. When you're using your strengths, things just come easier to you
and the day flows and you're in more joy and feel more fulfilled. So you might
have had a day where you're incredibly busy and yet, at the end of the day,
you're like, "That was a fantastic day." And then, when you're using
those strengths, we have all 34 and we can't use them. But when you're using
your less dominant strengths, it's like using your nondominant hand, you can do
it and you can even learn to do it effectively. But it's always going to feel a
little more awkward and it's not going to be as natural or as comfortable.

So those kind of days look like, "Okay, maybe I only
had two or three things to do, but I come home exhausted, because I'm like,
that was terrible." So, you know, even without taking the assessment, just
being able to observe what are your natural strengths and when are you in a
place of really feeling you're in the flow and you lose track of time and then
what was going on then? And what did it bring out in me? And beginning to
notice those things. When we notice that then about each other, we can
recognize that, "Oh, there's some strengths that are maybe number 32, 33
on my list that are one and two on your list. Let's get together and
talk," because that collaboration happens when we recognize that we don't
have the same natural talents or abilities. And instead of that person maybe
that was annoying me, and I'm like, "Why are they doing things that way?
That's not the way I would do it", we start to think in terms of maybe
they have different strengths and maybe they can see something I don't see and
let's have a conversation and see how we can work together because I bring this
part and you bring that part. So, like I said, even without taking the
assessment, just thinking in those terms helps us just be more diverse in our
approach to things and more collaborative.

Trisha Williams: I love this assessment because I
feel like all of the other personality assessments and things that I've taken
in the past, it's always like your weaknesses or how you come across to people
and how these types of things. This is the first assessment that I've ever taken,
that it's like, "You have great strengths about you. How do you empower
these strengths and work with others to empower their strengths and to elevate
the culture?" And this has been a life changing assessment for me. I think
everybody should take it.

Robin Ferguson: Yeah, I agree. I love it. I love it,
because for the very reasons you said. It's based on finding the best in people
and helping to empower them and call that out. But also leaning on that
because, just like you said, one of you is task-oriented, one of you is
relationship-oriented. Well, you bring different aspects and a diverse
perspective to what you do, and that enhances the work in general. So, yeah,
when we can all do that, it really elevates all of us.

Trisha Williams: Absolutely.

Tobie O'Brien: Now, is this one of those assessments
that you can share with others, right? Like some of those you try not to share,
because then if Trisha knows what my assessment says, it wouldn't be good. You
know, those one types of tests. I can't remember what that's called. But
anyway, this one I should take and then Trisha can know my results. Is that
what you're saying?

Robin Ferguson: Well, if you choose to share it,
sure. Yeah. Like my team has done it and I do retreats and things with teams of
people where we look at, "Okay. As a team, what are our natural
strengths?" And there's four domains that each of these strengths are in.
So you can look at the domains of a team and say, "Yes, we're really
strong in this domain. Not so much in this domain. What does that mean for our
workflow?" But yeah, I mean, even in just like partnerships,
relationships, when you look at that, you can look at, "Oh, okay. Now I
understand you better." But yeah, it's certainly something that you can
share and then you'll know what someone might be strong in that you didn't
realize and that maybe is not in your wheelhouse and how you can maximize that.

Tobie O'Brien: Okay. I'm going to have to take that
later.

Trisha Williams: I could probably tell you what your
strengths are, Tobie. I know you pretty well. Robin, I would love to spend some
time just kind of debunking some common misnomers that people may have, like
some barriers that they may have to actually seeing themselves as leaders and
how can they flip their mindset to just really embrace the leadership person
inside them. And so what are some common misnomers?

Robin Ferguson: Well, I see a lot of imposter
syndrome. So whenever we are attempting to grow or challenging ourselves to be
a better version of ourselves, it doesn't have to be anything big, but it can
be like going back to school or taking on a new role or those kinds of things,
we're going to come up against this concept of monkey mind that it comes from
this idea that there's a monkey sitting on your shoulder chattering in your
ear. But you know, we have that primitive part of our brain that in ancient
times and even now have really focused on keeping us safe. But our brain can't
discern like the difference between a charging lion and the unknown. And so
fear is fear. And so that part of our brain gets triggered and we go into this
fear state, and anytime we're going through any kind of change or attempting to
challenge ourselves to try on a new behavior, that gets triggered.

And what happens is that inner chatter starts, and it looks
a little different for all of us. But if you think about it and you start to
observe it, you can recognize those kind of two or three phrases that come up
in the moment like, "What was I thinking doing this? I don't know if I
have what it takes." And so knowing that's part of our just wiring and our
brain wiring, we can look at that moment when that comes up and say,
"Okay, do I want to listen to that?" or "Do I want to keep
taking a step forward?" And so any time there's a new behavior or new
idea, like thinking of myself as now a leader. What does it look like to be a
leader? Knowing that we're trying on a new behavior, we're practicing new ways
of operating in the world and there's going to be moments that maybe it doesn't
work, that we start to spiral into that, " Well, who am I to be that? Who
am I to have influence here? Who am I to make a difference? Who am I to propose
this new idea?" Know that that's going to happen, but we have a choice in
that moment to listen to it or to step forward and say, "You know what?
Thanks for sharing, but I'm going to make a move in that direction anyway. And
if I fall down, I'm going to get back up and I'm going to try it again until I
really begin to believe that's who I am." So it's a practice like anything
else, like when you start a new workout routine, it takes a while before you're
really comfortable and you're like, "I've got this." So, leadership
is a practice.

Trisha Williams: Yeah, I've recently been going
through this leadership work with Robin and I would attest to it. It's a daily
practice. It's a daily noticing the triggers, taking a breath, processing and
then taking an intentional step forward. And it's just, "Okay. I'm a
leader and telling yourself that I'm a leader at home. I'm a leader in my
community. I'm a leader at work. I'm a leader as a human." And I think
that if we all start looking at ourselves like that, the impact that we can
have as advanced practice providers within our institution, within our state,
within our country, within the world is just huge.

Tobie O'Brien: I agree, Trisha.

Robin Ferguson: Amen to that.

Tobie O'Brien: Yeah, I mean, because I think what you
said about syndrome, well, sometimes you feel like you're the only person who
feels that way, but when hearing you talk and, of course, I've read enough to
know that I'm not the only one that feels like that, but sometimes it feels
that way, but to get past that point, to know like you are here for a reason,
you have done the work now, believe in yourself and keep moving forward and
make a difference because you can. And I love hearing just the psychology
behind it and to know that you're not alone in that.

Robin Ferguson: Yeah, you're definitely not. I mean,
I've coached executives who feel that same way. And so, it really is about
recognizing, okay, what do I have to contribute here? How can I be of value?
What are my strengths? And we all have value. We all have those things that we
have to offer. And so really starting to focus on that more than we focus on
the things that are missing or wrong, that we consider wrong with us. But
really focusing on what's right about us and what opportunities are in front of
us that we can make a difference. Yeah, it's powerful.

Trisha Williams: It is very powerful. I wanted to
spend some time talking about conflict resolution. But now, that I'm kind of
reflecting back on everything we've talked about, we've touched on those
topics, right? We've talked about seeing the best in people and showing up with
our strengths, recognizing our strengths within others to potentially avoid
conflict, correct? Or do you think that there's some tidbits that we need to
know about conflict resolution with either within our peer groups or our team
or with our manager, something to that effect?

Robin Ferguson: Yeah. I mean, I think there's nothing
wrong with conflict. I think we have such a negative idea about it and really
it's the opportunity for us to get creative and it's an opportunity for us to
stretch and see things in a different way. And so I was trained in this concept
of polarity management where you're looking at, okay, you're on one pole and
I'm on the other pole.

And we did this great exercise once with a native American
group where we were in a circle and there was this skull of an elk in the
middle of the circle. And we were just invited to spend like two to three
minutes studying it. So looking at where the shadows fell, where the crevices
were, what colors were on it. And then, we moved around to the opposite side of
the circle and did the same thing, so then we were on the opposite end of it.
And the whole idea behind it was when there's conflict, you know, we are on
this circle and it just happens that you're on the opposite side, looking at
this issue from that perspective. I'm over here looking at it from my
perspective. So it could be, "This is my role, so this is what's important
and this is what I'm seeing in the situation." You're on the other side,
you've got a different role, what perspective are you looking at?" So we
see this a lot, like in our organization about the conversation between
providing care for everyone and being financial stewards so that we can do
that.

There's some innate conflict that comes into those
conversations at times, but it's recognizing both are important. So what's the
value that we share. And when you begin to be able to identify the value that
you and I share, even though we may stand on different parts of the circle,
have different backgrounds, different perspectives, just different roles, let's
focus on the value and how can we bring those strengths that we both have in
support of that value. So that is an opportunity for creativity and it's an
opportunity for us to come together rather than to be a part in us and them
mentality and be in that state of conflict.

Trisha Williams: You are so wise. I love that. It's
like looking at the opposite side. And you said it perfectly when it's a time
for growth

Robin Ferguson: Yeah. It's an opportunity for us to
grow and to gain insight and to get creative.

Trisha Williams: To get creative. It's just don't
look at conflict as negative. If we go about it as an opportunity for success,
then it's not going to have that negative consequence or that negative outcome
that we all want to avoid.

Robin Ferguson: And it takes courage to have these
conversations, so I don't want to undermine the fact that these, all the things
we've been talking about today, it takes courage as human beings to confront
our ingrained beliefs and our preconceived ideas and to instead lean in and get
curious and take steps forward. But you know, who do we want to be?

Tobie O'Brien: Yeah, I love how you said like,
reinventing yourself. I think that you said that at the very beginning. So you
can always sort of change and grow and like these conflicts are opportunity to
get more creative than you would have been prior. So I think it's obvious.
Yeah, for sure, growth, opportunity. What are some resources? Say that
listeners, if they wanted to learn more about what you offer or how they can
learn more about getting your wisdom for themselves, how could they go about
finding more information?

Robin Ferguson: Yeah. Well, certainly they can email
me personally if there's something in particular or if they're looking for a
coach. You know, we do have a group of coaches that help support this process
for people. But then, resources like, you know, you can go to the Gallup
website, type in Gallup CliftonStrengths, and you can find more information
about how you go about taking that test, if you're interested in doing that
polarity management, was the other piece that I mentioned as far as conflict
management goes, if that's something that interests you. So, lots of resources
out there to support. And then, you know, I'm always looking for great books on
leadership and people who are really tuned into kind of the world as it stands
right now. I'm huge fan of Brené Brown. So I'm sure there's many listening that
can relate to that, because I think she speaks a lot to this idea of courageous
vulnerability and how we show up as leaders and as people.

Trisha Williams: Well, Robin, you have just been a
wealth of information as always. And I looked up a few quotes. I'm a huge quote
fanatic when it comes to leadership and I did some research on looking up some
quotes, as I had mentioned before, with my first quote. But I found this quote
by the famous RBG and she said "Fight for the things that you care about,
but do it in a way that will lead others to join you." And that is
everything that we talked about because if you're not getting the people and
understanding and leading them, then you're just a person with an idea. And so
you have to get your troops behind you. So I love me some RBG.

Robin Ferguson: Yeah.

Tobie O'Brien: Robin, thank you for joining us today.
We like to end each podcast episode with a question. So we would love to ask
you in what way do you encourage your colleagues or what is your favorite way
to encourage your colleagues?

Robin Ferguson: What a great question. Well, since
we're talking CliftonStrength, so one of my top five is the maximizer strength,
which is about taking things that are good and making them even better or
focusing on taking what exists and focusing on what's possible. So for me,
whether that be in my previous roles, but especially now as a coach, I'm always
looking at what are people's strengths and what are they really great at and
then inviting them to take it up a notch. So what would it look like if you ran
with that idea? So, you know, it seems a lot of times we wait for permission
from someone, somebody who's going to say, "Hey, that's a good idea. Go.
Go forward. Run with it. Do it." We're always looking outside of ourselves
for that. And so, how can we one do that for ourselves. But, as a coach, I'm
always listening for those little moments where I can say, "Do it. Yeah.
That's great. What would that look like?" And just really being sort of a
champion for their possibility. That's my favorite thing in the world.

Trisha Williams: You are so inspiring and we are so
blessed to have you on our podcast today. Thank you so much for joining us.

Robin Ferguson: Well, you bet. Thanks for having me.

Trisha Williams: You bet. If you have a topic that
you would like to hear about or you are interested in being a guest on our
podcast, you can email us at tdobrien@cmh.edu or twilliams@cmh.edu. Once again,
thanks so much for listening to the Advanced Practice Perspectives Podcast.