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How to Talk to Children About Race and Racism
Hillary Kimbley, Ph.D., shares advice and resources on how to discuss race and racism with your child in age-appropriate ways.
Featured Speaker:
Dr. Kimbley is also involved in teaching and training activities, including supervision of psychology graduate students. Additionally, she serves on various internal committees (e.g., Children’s Health Psychology Fellowship interview committee) and external committees and workgroups at the regional, state, and national levels (e.g., president-elect of Dallas Psychological Association (DPA)). In her spare time, she loves spending time with family and friends, reading and traveling.
Hillary Kimbley, Ph.D.
Hillary Kimbley, PhD, is a licensed psychologist at Children’s Health and Assistant Professor of Psychiatry at UT Southwestern. Dr. Kimbley received her doctorate degree from Texas A&M University. She completed a psychology internship at Nationwide Children’s Hospital in Columbus, Ohio and a postdoctoral fellowship program in clinical child psychology at Children’s Medical Center Dallas, the flagship hospital of Children's Health. She currently provides clinical assessment and intervention services to patients with behavioral health needs through the Children’s Health Comprehensive Epilepsy Clinic. Dr. Kimbley’s main clinical research interests are psychiatric and psychosocial comorbidities in pediatric epilepsy.Dr. Kimbley is also involved in teaching and training activities, including supervision of psychology graduate students. Additionally, she serves on various internal committees (e.g., Children’s Health Psychology Fellowship interview committee) and external committees and workgroups at the regional, state, and national levels (e.g., president-elect of Dallas Psychological Association (DPA)). In her spare time, she loves spending time with family and friends, reading and traveling.
Transcription:
How to Talk to Children About Race and Racism
Bill Klaproth (Host): You’re listening to Children’s Health Checkup, where we answer parent’s most common questions about raising healthy and happy kids. I’m Bill Klaproth. When acts of social injustice, discrimination or violence take place; children are likely to hear what’s going on from the news, their friends or from overhearing a conversation at home. In this episode, we’re going to address how racial events can affect children, why it’s important to address race and racism with kids early on and how to start the conversation in an age-appropriate way. Here to talk with us about how to talk to children about race and racism is our expert Dr. Hillary Kimbley, a Pediatric Psychologist at Children’s Health and Assistant Professor in Psychiatry at UT Southwestern. Dr. Kimbley, thank you for your time. Very good to talk with you about this important topic. So, first off, how may racial events affect children?
Hillary Kimbley, PhD (Guest): Racial events can affect children in a variety of ways and it really depends on several factors, the child’s age, their own racial background, if their parents or caregivers have already addressed it in the home setting, their own temperament and coping style, what they’ve been exposed to. So, it can have a lot of different effects on children because of those different factors. A lot of children currently are expressing fear, worry, shock, sadness, curiosity because of the images they are seeing in the media, because of the things they are hearing from their peers or they are seeing on social media. And so, a lot of times, these racial events have negative affects on children. And of course, like I already mentioned, that can be based on several factors.
Host: Yeah, they aren’t immune to the stress and anxiety that comes with this. So, then why is it important for parents to address race and racism with their children and what may hold parents back from having these important conversations?
Dr. Kimbley: Sure, for those very reasons that I just mentioned, even if parents aren’t talking about it, youth are very aware of what’s going on. We are in the technology age where they have easy access to information, and because we know in general, race and racism have several direct and indirect effects on everyone’s life. And some people feel those effects more directly through their own experiences, opportunities or lack thereof, but it really influences our decisions, our access to opportunities, access to resources. So it’s embedded in society and it’s embedded in part of the US history in general. And it continues to the present day to really affect directly and indirectly our experience in life. So it’s important to talk about it because some of these concepts can be difficult to understand. We want parents and caregivers to talk about race and racism with their children to clear up any misinformation they may be receiving from the media or their peers. We want parents to talk about race and racism because it just normalizes the topic or the subject. So the more they talk about it like they talk about school or sports, it will normalize it, and it will be part of their everyday conversation.
And a lot of times, parents hold back in talking about race and racism because it’s a very emotional and heavy topic. And it can make a lot of parents feel uncomfortable, again, based on what side of the fence they are on and if they are part of a group that experiences racism or they may be a part of the group that doesn’t necessarily experience racism. Some parents have already been talking about this with their children from a very young age. A lot of racial groups that experience injustice, those children are socialized from birth because their parents know that they are going to experience the effects of racism. Whereas other children, they don’t experience anything so their parents might hold back because they may not feel like it’s very important, they lack awareness and some parents are just fearful that they don’t have the information. They don’t have the answers, or they may not want to scare their children or feel like they are going to give them the wrong information.
Host: So, you mentioned parents holding back because they’re uncomfortable and that’s very understandable. So, how can parents start these important conversations with their children?
Dr. Kimbley: One of the easiest ways to start the conversation is to look for the teachable moments. The younger kids might be asking questions about race, a peer’s skin color or they might ask about another peer’s hair. So, look for those teachable moments to really start the conversations about race.
Host: Yeah, that really makes sense, those teachable moments and that’s really a good way to put it. So, for a parent that is struggling, they want to talk to their child, but they are struggling, what’s a good way to explain or define racism for kids?
Dr. Kimbley: Racism can be a very complex topic to talk about but put simply, talk about race and talk about racism. And so race is basically how someone is defined by their physical characteristics, mainly skin color or other physical characteristics and racism simply put, is when one race thinks that they are better than another race and they might treat them unfairly because of it. And so most kids and youth understand the difference between fairness, something being fair and something being not fair or right versus wrong. So, just using those simple terms when describing race and racism.
Host: So, how soon should a parent start talking about this? What age is appropriate to talk about race and racism with a child?
Dr. Kimbley: It is not too early to start talking about race and racism with children. Basically, because research demonstrates that infants as young as around two to three months already start to show preferences for looking at different faces that are the same color or have the same characteristics of their caregiver. So, the minute that a parent starts teaching their children other basic preacademic or developmental or cognitive skills such as reading to them in picture books, using language with them, they can start incorporating ideas of race through play, movies they are watching, different experiences they are having because it starts actually at a very young age.
Host: I did not expect you to say that. That’s fascinating. So, speaking of that, is there any other advice you can give for each age group? Say you haven’t had the talk with your child and your child is six or your child is ten, or your child is sixteen. Can you give me some different options for different age ranges?
Dr. Kimbley: Sure. So, toddlers at that age, they already start to use race to determine the behavior of others and they start to make observations and make assumptions about how their peers will act because of their race. And we know toddlers learn through play, storytelling and experiences. So, incorporating diversity within their play whether that be picture books that show diverse families, if they have dolls to play with, different race dolls, talking and pointing out differences not only in race but do they understand diversity. They understand differences in colors like Crayon colors are different than the colored flowers. They can understand differences in the races of people so just talking to them.
And then moving on to the school-age, they start to use, of course, more language. And we know in the research, they start to express more because they have more language and more complex ideas. Different prejudices or preferences for peers, so that’s when you can start asking them questions. What do you know about race, or why are you preferring to play with this peer over that peer? If they are asking about skin color, using those moments to talk to them and reading books and exposing them to diverse playgroups, starting to introduce movies that have racial themes and different things like that.
And then carrying that over into the tweens and teenagers, of course, social interactions at those ages become even more complex, but they have a deeper understanding of race and racism and how it’s really affecting people. And, so, you can start talking about it on a more complex level like the differences between groups, unconscious bias, microaggressions and how they can take action to address racial injustice like peaceful protest, joining organizations that aim to reduce racial injustice and different things like that.
Host: So, then Dr. Kimbley, on top of that, are there general tips that you can share with us for talking to kids about racism?
Dr. Kimbley: Yes, there are. Really it is starting the conversation early and have it frequently. As I mentioned earlier, you just want to normalize it. Normalize this conversation with youth so that you and your children feel more comfortable talking about it. Seek educational resources together, and, so even if you’re unaware, be open and honest with what you do or don’t know and how you’re researching to find information and to help inform yourself about what’s going on. Use experience as a teacher. Whether you are traveling, visiting museums, participating in different racial celebrations like Black History Month. Expand and broaden your circle and explore these different experiences that can teach you.
One of the most important things is modeling positive behavior. Children and youth, they are looking at their caregivers. So, you are talking the talk, but we also want caregivers to walk the walk, and although you might be saying things, they are actually looking at how you are interacting with different races and they are modeling that. They are modeling and doing everything that their caregivers are showing, and then, of course, acknowledge and address your child’s feelings. If they are feeling upset about what’s going on, whether it’s about racism or things they might be seeing in the news, acknowledge how they are feeling because it’s okay to be angry or fearful or confused about what’s going on.
Host: So, then what can parents do if a child is feeling fear or anxiety because of current events?
Dr. Kimbley: Sure, I always encourage parents to validate how their children are feeling. A lot of times, this does make parents uncomfortable. But it’s very important to validate, not push their feelings to the side but really acknowledge and validate that it’s okay to feel that way. Because what’s going on is very upsetting and it can be very uncomfortable. Try to engage their children in using appropriate coping strategies if they are feeling fearful. A lot of times, that might be relaxation strategies. One of the most common ones that people are aware of is deep breathing or distracting yourself with an enjoyable activity. Of course, limiting their access to a lot of news or social media content that might have upsetting images or information. And then of course, if they feel like they are not equipped or they are not able to use basic coping strategies for calming down their children, seeking out support from a mental health provider in the community.
Host: And for parents who are searching for more information, what resources are out there that you would recommend to parents who are looking for further support?
Dr. Kimbley: Sure, there are several credible organizations and websites that have information including research studies, books, links to movies, and things like that that parents can access. Some of my favorite websites are the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological Association and the Child Mind Institute is a good website, the Conscious Kid, Embrace Race is a good website. So, all of those websites that I just listed have tons of tips, strategies, resources for parents to educate themselves and their children.
Host: So, let me ask you this. On the flip side, what if your child is showing intolerance towards people of color or is using racist language? How should you approach your child if you hear or see that?
Dr. Kimbley: Sure, I would use that comment, that racial slur whatever they are overhearing to start a conversation and to be very direct but to give their child a safe place to talk about where they got that information from, why do they feel that way, did they hear from a peer, did they see something, do they believe that their parents feel that way? Did they get that information from an extended relative? See what they are getting that information from and how and why they are forming those ideas and then help to educate them. Tell them where they are misinformed. Tell them that it’s wrong and that you don’t agree with it and use your resources to help teach them and shape them and mold them. Because we know youth in general, are going to make mistakes whether it’s with race or something else. And just like you correct them in another area, this is another opportunity to correct their beliefs about different racial groups.
Host: Such good advice. Point the comment out, and then ask the child why do you feel this way and enter into a conversation. And then lastly, Dr. Kimbley, and thank you so much for your time. Any other insights that you can share with us?
Dr. Kimbley: Sure. A lot of families that I speak with talk about feeling overwhelmed. They don’t feel like anything is going to change. They feel very hopeless and I always encourage them that you can start with the individual. You can start within your family. We don’t have to wait. Although it would be ideal for laws to change immediately, for those around us to change their viewpoints and their ideas. You can start with you. And by starting with you and your family; then that can have a ripple effect into your neighborhood, your workplace, your children’s school, into your community, the state, the nation and the world. So you can start with you. You don’t have to wait for something else to change. So, start by educating yourself about race. When you change yourself and your views and your families are just educate yourself, you can change the nation. You can change the world.
Host: That is so true. Start with you and things around you start to change as well. Dr. Kimbley, this has really, really been informative. Thank you again.
Dr. Kimbley: Sure, thank you for having me. Anytime and thank you for having me on to discuss such an important topic.
Host: Well it is an important topic and we need to start teaching our children early and have these important conversations. Dr. Kimbley, thank you again.
Dr. Kimbley: Thank you.
Host: That’s Dr. Hillary Kimbley and for more information, please visit www.childrens.com and if you found this podcast helpful, please rate and review or share the episode and please follow Children’s Health on your social channels. This is Children’s Health Checkup, a podcast from Children’s Health. Thanks for listening.
How to Talk to Children About Race and Racism
Bill Klaproth (Host): You’re listening to Children’s Health Checkup, where we answer parent’s most common questions about raising healthy and happy kids. I’m Bill Klaproth. When acts of social injustice, discrimination or violence take place; children are likely to hear what’s going on from the news, their friends or from overhearing a conversation at home. In this episode, we’re going to address how racial events can affect children, why it’s important to address race and racism with kids early on and how to start the conversation in an age-appropriate way. Here to talk with us about how to talk to children about race and racism is our expert Dr. Hillary Kimbley, a Pediatric Psychologist at Children’s Health and Assistant Professor in Psychiatry at UT Southwestern. Dr. Kimbley, thank you for your time. Very good to talk with you about this important topic. So, first off, how may racial events affect children?
Hillary Kimbley, PhD (Guest): Racial events can affect children in a variety of ways and it really depends on several factors, the child’s age, their own racial background, if their parents or caregivers have already addressed it in the home setting, their own temperament and coping style, what they’ve been exposed to. So, it can have a lot of different effects on children because of those different factors. A lot of children currently are expressing fear, worry, shock, sadness, curiosity because of the images they are seeing in the media, because of the things they are hearing from their peers or they are seeing on social media. And so, a lot of times, these racial events have negative affects on children. And of course, like I already mentioned, that can be based on several factors.
Host: Yeah, they aren’t immune to the stress and anxiety that comes with this. So, then why is it important for parents to address race and racism with their children and what may hold parents back from having these important conversations?
Dr. Kimbley: Sure, for those very reasons that I just mentioned, even if parents aren’t talking about it, youth are very aware of what’s going on. We are in the technology age where they have easy access to information, and because we know in general, race and racism have several direct and indirect effects on everyone’s life. And some people feel those effects more directly through their own experiences, opportunities or lack thereof, but it really influences our decisions, our access to opportunities, access to resources. So it’s embedded in society and it’s embedded in part of the US history in general. And it continues to the present day to really affect directly and indirectly our experience in life. So it’s important to talk about it because some of these concepts can be difficult to understand. We want parents and caregivers to talk about race and racism with their children to clear up any misinformation they may be receiving from the media or their peers. We want parents to talk about race and racism because it just normalizes the topic or the subject. So the more they talk about it like they talk about school or sports, it will normalize it, and it will be part of their everyday conversation.
And a lot of times, parents hold back in talking about race and racism because it’s a very emotional and heavy topic. And it can make a lot of parents feel uncomfortable, again, based on what side of the fence they are on and if they are part of a group that experiences racism or they may be a part of the group that doesn’t necessarily experience racism. Some parents have already been talking about this with their children from a very young age. A lot of racial groups that experience injustice, those children are socialized from birth because their parents know that they are going to experience the effects of racism. Whereas other children, they don’t experience anything so their parents might hold back because they may not feel like it’s very important, they lack awareness and some parents are just fearful that they don’t have the information. They don’t have the answers, or they may not want to scare their children or feel like they are going to give them the wrong information.
Host: So, you mentioned parents holding back because they’re uncomfortable and that’s very understandable. So, how can parents start these important conversations with their children?
Dr. Kimbley: One of the easiest ways to start the conversation is to look for the teachable moments. The younger kids might be asking questions about race, a peer’s skin color or they might ask about another peer’s hair. So, look for those teachable moments to really start the conversations about race.
Host: Yeah, that really makes sense, those teachable moments and that’s really a good way to put it. So, for a parent that is struggling, they want to talk to their child, but they are struggling, what’s a good way to explain or define racism for kids?
Dr. Kimbley: Racism can be a very complex topic to talk about but put simply, talk about race and talk about racism. And so race is basically how someone is defined by their physical characteristics, mainly skin color or other physical characteristics and racism simply put, is when one race thinks that they are better than another race and they might treat them unfairly because of it. And so most kids and youth understand the difference between fairness, something being fair and something being not fair or right versus wrong. So, just using those simple terms when describing race and racism.
Host: So, how soon should a parent start talking about this? What age is appropriate to talk about race and racism with a child?
Dr. Kimbley: It is not too early to start talking about race and racism with children. Basically, because research demonstrates that infants as young as around two to three months already start to show preferences for looking at different faces that are the same color or have the same characteristics of their caregiver. So, the minute that a parent starts teaching their children other basic preacademic or developmental or cognitive skills such as reading to them in picture books, using language with them, they can start incorporating ideas of race through play, movies they are watching, different experiences they are having because it starts actually at a very young age.
Host: I did not expect you to say that. That’s fascinating. So, speaking of that, is there any other advice you can give for each age group? Say you haven’t had the talk with your child and your child is six or your child is ten, or your child is sixteen. Can you give me some different options for different age ranges?
Dr. Kimbley: Sure. So, toddlers at that age, they already start to use race to determine the behavior of others and they start to make observations and make assumptions about how their peers will act because of their race. And we know toddlers learn through play, storytelling and experiences. So, incorporating diversity within their play whether that be picture books that show diverse families, if they have dolls to play with, different race dolls, talking and pointing out differences not only in race but do they understand diversity. They understand differences in colors like Crayon colors are different than the colored flowers. They can understand differences in the races of people so just talking to them.
And then moving on to the school-age, they start to use, of course, more language. And we know in the research, they start to express more because they have more language and more complex ideas. Different prejudices or preferences for peers, so that’s when you can start asking them questions. What do you know about race, or why are you preferring to play with this peer over that peer? If they are asking about skin color, using those moments to talk to them and reading books and exposing them to diverse playgroups, starting to introduce movies that have racial themes and different things like that.
And then carrying that over into the tweens and teenagers, of course, social interactions at those ages become even more complex, but they have a deeper understanding of race and racism and how it’s really affecting people. And, so, you can start talking about it on a more complex level like the differences between groups, unconscious bias, microaggressions and how they can take action to address racial injustice like peaceful protest, joining organizations that aim to reduce racial injustice and different things like that.
Host: So, then Dr. Kimbley, on top of that, are there general tips that you can share with us for talking to kids about racism?
Dr. Kimbley: Yes, there are. Really it is starting the conversation early and have it frequently. As I mentioned earlier, you just want to normalize it. Normalize this conversation with youth so that you and your children feel more comfortable talking about it. Seek educational resources together, and, so even if you’re unaware, be open and honest with what you do or don’t know and how you’re researching to find information and to help inform yourself about what’s going on. Use experience as a teacher. Whether you are traveling, visiting museums, participating in different racial celebrations like Black History Month. Expand and broaden your circle and explore these different experiences that can teach you.
One of the most important things is modeling positive behavior. Children and youth, they are looking at their caregivers. So, you are talking the talk, but we also want caregivers to walk the walk, and although you might be saying things, they are actually looking at how you are interacting with different races and they are modeling that. They are modeling and doing everything that their caregivers are showing, and then, of course, acknowledge and address your child’s feelings. If they are feeling upset about what’s going on, whether it’s about racism or things they might be seeing in the news, acknowledge how they are feeling because it’s okay to be angry or fearful or confused about what’s going on.
Host: So, then what can parents do if a child is feeling fear or anxiety because of current events?
Dr. Kimbley: Sure, I always encourage parents to validate how their children are feeling. A lot of times, this does make parents uncomfortable. But it’s very important to validate, not push their feelings to the side but really acknowledge and validate that it’s okay to feel that way. Because what’s going on is very upsetting and it can be very uncomfortable. Try to engage their children in using appropriate coping strategies if they are feeling fearful. A lot of times, that might be relaxation strategies. One of the most common ones that people are aware of is deep breathing or distracting yourself with an enjoyable activity. Of course, limiting their access to a lot of news or social media content that might have upsetting images or information. And then of course, if they feel like they are not equipped or they are not able to use basic coping strategies for calming down their children, seeking out support from a mental health provider in the community.
Host: And for parents who are searching for more information, what resources are out there that you would recommend to parents who are looking for further support?
Dr. Kimbley: Sure, there are several credible organizations and websites that have information including research studies, books, links to movies, and things like that that parents can access. Some of my favorite websites are the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological Association and the Child Mind Institute is a good website, the Conscious Kid, Embrace Race is a good website. So, all of those websites that I just listed have tons of tips, strategies, resources for parents to educate themselves and their children.
Host: So, let me ask you this. On the flip side, what if your child is showing intolerance towards people of color or is using racist language? How should you approach your child if you hear or see that?
Dr. Kimbley: Sure, I would use that comment, that racial slur whatever they are overhearing to start a conversation and to be very direct but to give their child a safe place to talk about where they got that information from, why do they feel that way, did they hear from a peer, did they see something, do they believe that their parents feel that way? Did they get that information from an extended relative? See what they are getting that information from and how and why they are forming those ideas and then help to educate them. Tell them where they are misinformed. Tell them that it’s wrong and that you don’t agree with it and use your resources to help teach them and shape them and mold them. Because we know youth in general, are going to make mistakes whether it’s with race or something else. And just like you correct them in another area, this is another opportunity to correct their beliefs about different racial groups.
Host: Such good advice. Point the comment out, and then ask the child why do you feel this way and enter into a conversation. And then lastly, Dr. Kimbley, and thank you so much for your time. Any other insights that you can share with us?
Dr. Kimbley: Sure. A lot of families that I speak with talk about feeling overwhelmed. They don’t feel like anything is going to change. They feel very hopeless and I always encourage them that you can start with the individual. You can start within your family. We don’t have to wait. Although it would be ideal for laws to change immediately, for those around us to change their viewpoints and their ideas. You can start with you. And by starting with you and your family; then that can have a ripple effect into your neighborhood, your workplace, your children’s school, into your community, the state, the nation and the world. So you can start with you. You don’t have to wait for something else to change. So, start by educating yourself about race. When you change yourself and your views and your families are just educate yourself, you can change the nation. You can change the world.
Host: That is so true. Start with you and things around you start to change as well. Dr. Kimbley, this has really, really been informative. Thank you again.
Dr. Kimbley: Sure, thank you for having me. Anytime and thank you for having me on to discuss such an important topic.
Host: Well it is an important topic and we need to start teaching our children early and have these important conversations. Dr. Kimbley, thank you again.
Dr. Kimbley: Thank you.
Host: That’s Dr. Hillary Kimbley and for more information, please visit www.childrens.com and if you found this podcast helpful, please rate and review or share the episode and please follow Children’s Health on your social channels. This is Children’s Health Checkup, a podcast from Children’s Health. Thanks for listening.