Scott Webb (Host): This is Children's Health Checkup, where we answer parents' most common questions about raising healthy and happy kids. I'm Scott Webb. And today, we're talking about something that's become a huge part of modern parenting, snacks. With so many snack options available, and a snack culture that encourages kids to graze all day, how can parents make choices that truly support their child's health? Are snacks even necessary, or are they more of a habit than a need?

And joining us to answer these questions is Mikie Rangel, an expert in child nutrition, who will help us unpack the role of snacks in kids' diets, share practical tips for healthier snacking, and give us some creative ideas for snacks kids will love.

Mikie, it's nice to have you here today. We're going to talk about snacking. I was joking with you about my daughter and her snacking habits. She's 17. We won't focus on that today. We'll focus more on the healthy side of things. So, I just want to know as we get rolling here, what role do snacks play on a child's energy levels and just overall nutrition?

Mikie Rangel: Yeah. That's such a good two-part question with the energy levels and the nutrition. So, thinking first about their energy levels, snacks really are key to keeping kids energized throughout the day. You know, we think about young kids especially. Their tummies are very small, about the size of their fist. So, if they're really listening to their bodies, to their hunger and fullness cues, they're only eating a small amount at meals. And if those meals that, you know, breakfast, lunch, and dinner are four to five hours apart, that small amount isn't really enough to sustain them. And so, a snack is a great way to get just that little bit of energy between meals.

And then, when we think about nutrition, you know, to me, a snack is a good way to get nutrition into their bodies, not just energy, but nutrition. So, I love to use the dairy group as a good example. We need about three servings of dairy per day, milk, cheese, and yogurt. But for those kids that don't typically drink milk with meals, snacks are a great time to have something like a string cheese or a yogurt or some cottage cheese, some way to get that food group that we need into their bodies when they're not just drinking milk with their meals.

Host: Yeah, my daughter will come down at like 10:30 at night, I'll think she's asleep. And then, I'll hear her in the kitchen, and she'll be having a glass of milk at like 10:30 at night. And I say, "Good for you. That's a great, healthy option." And I'd much rather you have that than the hot Funyuns, which you and I were discussing,

Mikie Rangel: For sure. More nutrition, this is what we want.

Host: For sure. Are there some healthy snack options for kids that provide the right balance? We're talking about nutrition, but the right balance of nutrients. And maybe you can also talk about recommended portion sizes.

Mikie Rangel: Yeah, I love that. You know, I always feel the need in this snack conversation to actually define snack. Too often, especially in this day and age, we think of snack and we conjure up images of chips. Hot Funyuns, Snack Cakes, packs of cookies. And I think, yeah, the grocery store doesn't help. I mean, that's literally named the snack aisle. And those are foods that I would really call more treats. Things we eat because they're tasty, not because they're a healthy food that's helping our body, but they're occasional. They're not stuff that we necessarily want to plan into our day.

So, the way that we dietitians define snacks are small amounts of healthy food. So, we eat in between meals to take the edge off our hunger. So, that's a pretty long definition, but it gives us a few key points. One of them is this idea of a healthy food. So, the opportunity to give our body nutrition, like the dairy example I used earlier, or protein is another good one. You know, a lot of kids don't love meat. So, a snack could be a time to get in things like nuts or nut butters or a boiled egg. So a snack, when we're thinking of like a healthy snack option, how do I get more nutrition in?

I tend to recommend that snacks be at least two food groups. So, that makes it really easy to pair ideas to make a balanced snack when we're talking about that balance of nutrients. So, like pairing the string cheese with a fruit or a boiled egg with some cucumbers or a yogurt with some almonds on top. So if parents have several options available within the fridge and the pantry, and then kind of give kids that autonomy to say, "Well, today, I want this food group and that food group and that pairing makes sense to me." And then, we're getting that more balance of nutrients when we are having a snack.

Host: Yeah. I'm always trying to, when I think about this stuff, I'm trying to think like, "How can we mix carbs and protein? You know, I don't want her to crash later." So, one of her favorite things is , piece of toast with peanut butter and sliced up banana.

Mikie Rangel: Perfect. Good balance.

Host: Yeah. Get a little bit of everything, a little balance, and get those nutrients. And this will come as no revelation to you or anyone else who shops at the store, which you were referencing, but there's so many processed snacks, as you're saying, really treats, that are advertised for kids that claim to be healthy, of course. Do you have any advice for parents who are looking for those convenient, healthy snacks for kids that actually are what we want them to be, healthy, nutritious, that kind of thing?

Mikie Rangel: Yeah, and it can be really hard to navigate the store like that. Certainly, anything with no or minimal processing is always going to be a good choice, and we usually know that. Fruits, vegetables, nuts, eggs, beans, these are all easy, portable, have a lot of nutrition, unprocessed. But we do tend to need some packaged foods in our busy lives. What I tend to do is look for minimal ingredients, not necessarily specific ingredients here and there, but a short ingredient list. Things like yogurts and cheese, maybe some whole grain crackers, granola bars that don't have a lot of ingredients, trail mix that are more simple ingredients put together. So, all of these can be convenient, but there's just not as long of a list on the back of the package as things like maybe a pack of chips or cookies.

Host: Yeah, I was just thinking about, you know, the battles that parents have with kids, right? And I'm sure one of them, a very common tale is how do you avoid a fight with them over healthy snacks or defining what a healthy snack is? What do you recommend?

Mikie Rangel: So, the real key here is what is available. You know, if we do have that pantry in that fridge full of every option and we say, "Hey, do you want chips or an apple?" I mean, most kids are going to pick the chips. But if what's available is an apple or carrots, they have, again, the autonomy to make the selection. They've got a little control over the situation, but either choice is a good choice. So, we know that they're going to get things like chips and sweets. There are birthday parties and holidays and school events, and those foods are available, and we don't want to be the police thinking when can they have them, when not, have they had enough? Take that stuff off the table when you're at home. If the only food available at home are those healthy choices, you know, the things that we're taking to our scheduled activities, the things they're eating day in and day out, that's what's having the bigger impact on their health and establishing those healthy habits. So, what's available to them at home eliminates the battle when there's not a battle to have to fight.

Host: Yeah, but it's all in the best interest, at least, you know, from the parents point of view anyway. I want to talk about like the afterschool snacking or the snacks between meals to prevent hunger or overeating. One of the things that I've noticed with our daughter is that I feel like she eats out of boredom. I feel like she snacks out of boredom. It's like she's just, "Yeah, there's just nothing going on. So, I might as well grab the Funyuns," you know? So, let's talk about that. How do we let them snack, encourage them to snack, but not too much and not too much of the wrong things?

Mikie Rangel: It's hard. And very important habit that I'm always wanting families to establish at home is that everything we eat, meals, snacks, healthy foods, treats, whatever it is, we eat at the table with no screen, no TV, no phone, no tablet, no video games. We eat with our food only or, you know, our families, but we need to eat because we're hungry and we need energy. Again, not because we're bored or happy or sad. We need to eat because we need energy. And for kids especially, their needs vary day to day and even throughout the day. So, different, activity levels, their growth spurts, what they've eaten the rest of the day. You know, it's impossible to know that if the half a sandwich after school that was enough yesterday is going to be enough today.

So, kids that are eating while watching TV, or of course on their phones, they're not paying attention to those hunger and fullness cues, and they're also not fully enjoying the tastes and the textures of their foods, because this is distracted eating. You know, they need to be fully engaged, fully enjoy, and notice when they've had enough. But plus, kids, and if we're being honest, adults, we love our screens. We love them. So if we have to choose between eating or watching the screen, and we can't do both at the same time, typically we'll sit at the table and eat enough to be satisfied and then want to leave and get back to our screen, watch our show, get on our phone, whatever it is. So, the same can be said when a child is thinking about getting a snack, but they realize that in order to do that, they have to pause their game, leave the room, go to the kitchen, sit at the table without their screen. If they're hungry, they'll do all that and they should. But if not, they'll realize, "Well, maybe I don't even really need a snack right now."

Scott Webb: Right. If it is just out of boredom or happy, sad, whatever it is, yeah, you can see how they might kind of go through that in their minds. I'm assuming the answer to this is obvious, but I want to hear it from an expert, that, you know, the things we do as kids, the habits we develop as kids, in this case, snacking habits, right? Is that going to influence our eating patterns as we, you know, go from being kids to adolescents to adults? In other words, you know, is the foundation for the types of eaters we will become as adults, is that really laying that foundation when we're kids?

Mikie Rangel: Yeah. And like you said, you kind of already know the answer to this, but I think what's important is to really be focusing on that word, habits. So, those habits like eating at a table with no screen, being comfortable being hungry when it's time to eat, not feeling that need to constantly snack, having only healthy foods available, but knowing that treats are still in the mix, outside of that day-to-day intake. Those are the habits that will carry on. Those are the things that are established. So instead of pushing certain foods or restricting other foods, more having those eating behaviors, eating habits, shopping habits, that's what's going to carry on throughout life.

Host: And I find too that engaging when they would still have the time and the patience to shop with me, let me set that as a caveat. But when I would take them when they were younger to the store and I would show them, "Okay, we can pick some things from here, pick some things from there," you know, and then really involving them in the process at the store, just trying, again, to develop those habits, shopping more around the outside at grocery store instead of the treat aisles. Is that something that you recommend, like, involving them as much as we can or as much as they're willing to, like, being part of the process?

Mikie Rangel: Yeah. And even teaching your kids those little tricks, like we turn over the food when we're not so sure. We look at how many ingredients it has or asking them, "This week, maybe what kind of dairy would you want to snack on to help your bones be stronger? And what kind of fruit would you want to snack on to make sure your digestive system is happy?" And tying it back into their health at whatever age-appropriate level. Engaging them and giving them some control over those choices will always get better buy-in from them.

Host: Anything else when we think about promoting healthy snack habits for kids, anything else, final takeaways you want parents to know?

Mikie Rangel: Yeah. You know, earlier you had asked about recommended portion sizes. And so, I did want to mention when it comes to portion sizes, that it kind of goes back to that snack definition, that small amount of food to take the edge off our hunger. As people are usually eating about three meals per day, those meals should fill us up for a few hours. So if there's going to be more than two to three hours between meals, we probably need a little snack to take the edge off your hunger. But what we need to remember is it's just that, to take the edge off. By the time the next meal rolls around, it's okay to be hungry. You know, I'll throw my husband under the bus on this one. I'll be making dinner and he's in the pantry. And I say, "What are you doing?" And he says, "Well, I'm hungry. I'm going to get something to eat." And I'm literally at the stove and I say, "Oh honey, no, no, no. It's okay to be hungry. We're about to eat." And I think that can be really important to remember. When it comes to a snack, it's not something that needs to fill us up. You know, a sandwich is a meal. But maybe a half a sandwich is a snack. A bowl of cereal is a meal, but a little coffee cup of cereal could be a snack.

And we need to remember timing. So, a child having a snack at 5:30 when dinner's at 6:00 is not going to be hungry to even consider trying all those foods. But maybe if they get home from school at 4:00 and dinner's not until 6:00, a small snack after school is perfect to take the edge off that hunger that they come home with. And then, by the time 6:00 rolls around, that hunger is back in play.

Host: Yeah. And as you say, I've had that same conversation with my wife. She's like, "What are you doing? I'm making dinner." I'm like, "I know, but I'm hungry now." She's like--

Mikie Rangel: So, this is universal.

Host: She's like, "You're a grown man. You can't be hungry for another 10 minutes?" I said, "That's debatable. Yes, it's humanly possible for me to remain hungry, but I don't want to, I want to eat now."

Mikie Rangel: Yes. Yeah. So, that's another thing that I talk to families about. You know, if your child has maybe come home and had a little half a peanut butter sandwich, there's a beautiful piece of whole grain bread and some peanut butter for protein and satisfaction. And they say, "Well, I'm still hungry and I'm willing to sit here at the table with no screen. And I don't want this to be it until dinner." I say, "Okay. Well, this is a good time to say, 'Well, let's look at our food groups. Your half a sandwich gave you some protein and some grains. So if you still want something to eat, this is a great time for you to have a yogurt or a cheese stick or a fruit or a vegetable. You can certainly eat more.'" I mean, nobody wants to restrict their kids and no kid wants to feel restricted. So if a kid is saying, "Hey, I'm hungry and I'm willing to sit here without a screen to eat," we want to be able to feed them, but that doesn't mean that they need to eat more more half sandwiches until they feel completely satisfied.

Host: Until it becomes whole sandwich. Yeah, right.

Mikie Rangel: OYou could say, "kay. Now, you've had your yogurt, you still want more? How about an apple? You still want more? Well, how about some cucumbers? How about some carrots?" So, it kind of gives parents again that option to say, "Okay, I'm not going to tell you you can't eat," that doesn't feel good. But how about a different healthy choice? Which one of these things would you like now?

Host: Yeah, totally. Like if you have a kid, one of your kids is willing to sit at the table with their phone off and just eat food. And they're willing to try even some healthy options along the way, you know, on top of the chips or Funyuns or whatever. I mean, that's just such a win for parents. I love that. And I just really appreciate your time today. Just fun, smile on my face, had some laughs. I hope parents really benefit from this. A lot of great information. Thank you so much.

Mikie Rangel: Thank you, Scott.

Host: And for more information, go to childrens.com/healthyweight. I'm Scott Webb. And thank you for listening to Children's Health Checkup. If you found this podcast helpful, please rate and review or share this episode, and please follow Children's Health on your social channels.