Melanie Cole, MS (Host): Welcome to Long Live Childhood, a pediatric health and wellness podcast presented by Children's Health of Orange County. I'm Melanie Cole. And today, we are exploring the relationship between nature and mental health and mindfulness, nature's impact on our mental wellbeing. Joining us is Elizabeth Mu. She's a licensed marriage and family therapist and a mental health specialist with CHOC.

Elizabeth, I'm so glad to have you with us today because, as you and I were just speaking off the air a little bit, mental health epidemic going on right now today, and especially for our kiddos and our teens and tweens is off the charts, and we're seeing this just across the spectrum and in every community. Tell us what we know about the relationship between nature, mental health, mindfulness. What do we know? How does being in nature affect our mental health? What do we know about this combination?

Elizabeth Mu: Well, thank you so much for having me on. Personally, I love nature. A lot of what I do outside of my work is camping, hiking, and we see this connection in being able to connect with nature. When you spend time outside, you are getting to, one, have physiological effects. You're in the sunshine. We need vitamin D. We know that when you have a deficiency of that, it can increase depression, anxiety. And so, being able to even get the physical effects of being in nature is super important. We are creatures of the earth. And so, our bodies and minds are meant to be connected to it in some way. And there's also the connection between mental health and mindfulness, being able to be outside, taking away screens, not having other distractions, being able to be really present in the moment. I think nature has such a way to facilitate that, being outside and doing something where you're connected to your body, you're connected to your surroundings. All of that is such a help to stay in the moment and practice that mindfulness, which we know mindfulness on its own greatly improves mental health, decreases anxiety, depression, improves our health. So many benefits.

Melanie Cole, MS: Well, I couldn't agree with you more. And I know that as somebody who also loves to be out in nature and gardening and camping and skiing, I mean, I would rather be outside than anywhere else. Is there science behind this? Because even when I walk in the woods, I stop and I touch trees and I put my hands on them, is there any science behind why this feels so good?

Elizabeth Mu: Definitely. Kind of like I mentioned before, I think our bodies are kind of programmed to respond to nature, sunshine, vitamin D. There's also been studies that the sound of birds can reduce anxiety. It can reduce a sense of paranoia. Often when there are birds present, it kind of tells us that, "Hey, there's no danger." And so, our bodies are attuned to that to be able to know that it's safe.

Melanie Cole, MS: I love that you said that when birds are around, that there's not danger. It's true. I mean, you feel like there's not the predators because they flee. And as a birder and a bird watcher, I love that you brought that up and listening to them and being out, feeling the dirt in my garden, all of that is so good for mental health.

Now, mindfulness is a whole 'nother thing, and we've learned more and more about that in recent years. So, how can we use mindfulness to get the full benefit of being in nature? And remember, Elizabeth, you're speaking to parents who are looking at their kiddos and saying, " We want to get you out. We want to use mindfulness and be out there our screens." How can they use that mindfulness to be with their kiddos in that moment?

Elizabeth Mu: I think when we're on the screens and we're multitasking, it takes away that opportunity to be right here with the thing in front of us. And for parents going outside and taking their kids, it could be as simple as, "Let's go out and do a scavenger hunt. Let's look for five green things." And you could go through the rainbow, red, orange, yellow, finding those items. And I think even with the mindfulness of focusing on one thing at a time.

I love nature so much. I don't know if this sounds silly, but like you said, touching trees, looking at a leaf and finding what you notice, what you observe. Are there veins in the leaf? What are the colors? Does it have multiple colors? Giving that time and attention to just observe and take in what you see separate from all of the distractions that go on in our daily lives and school and obligations.

Melanie Cole, MS: Well, I love again that you talked about leaves as I'm that weird old lady when I'm out walking, that picks up the colorful leaves in the fall and puts them in my pocket so that I can use them for decorations around the holidays. But it's true, because every time I pick one up and look at it, I just feel better.

And so, with our kids showing them these kinds of colors and the veining, and what tree do you think this came from, and looking around is so wonderful. But I guess the big question is how much time will make a difference when they play outside? And we know kids aren't getting enough recess time, right? In favor of Math and STEM and such. But how much time outside could be beneficial for our kids would really make a difference that we could see?

Elizabeth Mu: Honestly, just starting with 15 minutes a day outside, whether it's a walk or just sitting on the grass, you're unable to go outside, even just sitting and looking at a window or having plants inside can make such a difference. But I would say start 15 minutes, be outside. And if you can make it a daily practice, that's great.

Melanie Cole, MS: I think it's great for kids to learn to amuse themselves and entertain themselves outside. Back in my day, and you're probably much younger than I, but I mean our punishment was that we were not allowed outside. And that is different today. Now, some kids, especially if they're really into video games and screens, they don't want to go outside, they want to stay in, and it was the opposite for us. "Let us out. My gosh!" So, getting our kids outside is what's so important. What are some easy ways to get them to go out? And you say, "Take a walk." Well, I don't know. If you tell a 12-year-old, "Go take a walk," they're going to be, "Really? Just walk around?" So, what can we do as parents to be with them at the playground or on a field? Or what should we be doing?

Elizabeth Mu: I love that you brought up the idea of you didn't mention the name, but boredom. It's so important to have times when brains can be free to explore and have curiosity. And so, I think, you mentioned how do we get outside? How can parents also be involved? Whether there's a nearby park, bringing a sport, having a picnic. There's so many hikes. In Orange County, we're near the beach, going and checking out the tide pools, things like that, just kind of looking at what is available in the community, what green spaces there are, I think that's so important to have.

And with any time you're trying to get your kids to do something, I believe being in it with them. You mentioned like, "Oh, go, take a walk." It probably won't go over super well. And if you go together, "Yeah. Hey, we're going to go on our after-dinner walk," or if there isn't a lot of green space around, let's take a short drive to-- There's the Bolsa Chica Ecological Reserve. There's so many protected lands in the area that their job is to be there for the birds, the nature, the environment, and people to enjoy.

So, finding those areas around. And like I said, if you're not in a position to be able to go outside for extended periods of time, even just growing a garden inside, having house plants, having herbs that you're growing, doing something with your kids to focus on the here and now and some aspect of nature.

Melanie Cole, MS: Pets too, because if you have dogs that need to be walked, then you can tell your 12-year-old go walk. "Take a walk with Benny and get them out there," and that helps too. So, pets can help ground us to nature as well, because that's all that they want. But Elizabeth, this is just such a great episode, and you've given us so much to think about. And it's important that we hear you because getting our kids out there into that sunshine is just so important.

Give us your best advice now. For parents listening, what you want us to do about being in the moment with our kids, getting them into nature. That relationship between nature and mental health when we're seeing such precarious mental health going on with our kids these days.

Elizabeth Mu: To kind of summarize everything that we've talked about, doing stuff with your kids, doing something simple outside and leaving the devices behind. I think often parents can get distracted as well. If you're on that walk with your dog and your kid, if you're out throwing the ball, you're doing some sort of sport outside. Try to have your own devices set aside so you can kind of model also that, "Hey, we're here. We're going to observe." Like challenge your kids to find something interesting that they see. You can make it a game. You can make it fun and show, "Hey, I'm interested in this too." Like if we're walking out and you see some cool birds.

I know you mentioned you're a birder. Point them out and say, "Wow, I wonder what that is." Really fostering that curiosity and engagement together. Nature is meant to be fun as well. It's helpful for our mental health because it brings up also a lot of wanted emotions. It improves mood. It decreases depression, anxiety just by being in it and engaging. So, I think be a part of it. Find some way to be fun with the nature that you see that's in your area and accessible to you. 

Melanie Cole, MS: And it's true. And if we breathe, take a deep breath out there and really just kind of take it all in, it definitely helps. Thank you, Elizabeth, so much for joining us today and sharing your expertise. For parents and for more mental health tips and resources, please visit choc.org/programservices/mentalhealth.

Thank you so much for listening to Long Live Childhood, a pediatric health and wellness podcast presented by Children's Health of Orange County. Together, we can keep kids happy and healthy. We'd like to invite our audience to download, subscribe, rate, and review Long Live Childhood on Apple Podcast, iHeart, Spotify, and Pandora. And be sure to share on your social channels as we're all learning from the experts at CHOC together. I'm Melanie Cole. Thanks so much for joining us today.