Melanie Cole, MS (Host): Welcome to Long Live Childhood, a pediatric health and wellness podcast presented by Rady Children's Health. I'm Melanie Cole. And today, we're learning about the term neurodivergence. Joining me is Dr. Tyler Womack. She's a neurodevelopmental pediatric psychologist with Rady Children's Health Orange County.

Dr. Womack, thank you so much for joining us today. This term, it's a new-ish term and not many people know what it means. Can you tell us what the term neurodivergent really means?

Tyler Womack, PhD: Thank you for having me today. Of course. And before I get started, I just want to go through a couple disclaimers. So first, I want to acknowledge that the neurodiversity movement is a relatively young field, and it's still evolving. So, the perspectives I will talk about today will discuss some key principles, but are not reflective of every view within the community.

 I also want to provide a disclaimer that you'll hear both identity-first language and person-first language. For example, autistic person versus person with autism. Some individuals feel identity first language affirms their neurodivergence as a part of who they are, while others prefer person-first language to emphasize that they're more than their diagnosis.

So with those disclaimers out of the way, I'll get started. So, the term neurodivergent is a non-medical term that refers to the natural variation in how people's brains work. So, it will reflect differences in thinking, learning, processing, and behaving. Some attribute the popularity of this term to an Australian sociologist, Dr. Judy Singer. She had both an autistic mother, an autistic daughter, and she wrote a thesis using this term neurodivergence, to emphasize that essentially everyone's brain is unique and that that's not necessarily a bad thing.

So within the term neurodivergent, there's these terms called neurotypical and neurodivergent. Neurotypical is essentially describing individuals whose brains' functions align with societal norms, whereas neurodivergent describes those whose brains functions diverged from the dominant neurotypical type. Neurodivergence is really a form of human diversity. So, just like differences in race, gender, or sexual orientation, neurodiversity is a natural and valuable variation in humanity. Neurodivergence is also supporting the fact that different is not mean deficient, and that neurodivergent minds can offer very unique perspectives and really great contributions as well.

Melanie Cole, MS: That was beautifully said. Thank you so much, Dr. Womack. So, what are some examples of neurodivergent conditions in the real world and how might they impact a child's daily life? So, tell us a little bit about what it really means for a child.

Tyler Womack, PhD: Yeah. And so, neurodiversity is not a medical diagnosis, so there's not necessarily a definitive list of conditions that are included under this umbrella term. However, typically, individuals who identify as neurodiverse may have conditions like autism spectrum disorder. And this describes individuals who have challenges with social communication, may have more sensory sensitivities and repetitive behaviors. There's also conditions like ADHD, which can be a condition that impacts someone's inattention, their hyperactivity, their impulsivity. It can also include conditions like learning disabilities. And some examples of learning disabilities can include dyslexia, dyscalculia, and dysgraphia.

A challenge that these individuals might face is that the way that environments are structured often doesn't well align with how neurodivergent individuals may function or think, which can create some challenges. So, for example, thinking about a school classroom that relies heavily on long periods of silent seat work may be difficult for a student with ADHD who learns best through things like movement and hands-on activity. Because neurodivergent individuals often have to navigate these social norms or meet expectations designed for neurotypical people, they can be at higher risk for developing mental health and behavioral concerns.

That said, though, neurodivergent individuals do have a lot of strengths that can include things like a strong memory, creative problem solving, 3D visualization. And also, sometimes neurodivergent folks may have an intense focus on interest, which could make them have a really great expertise in that area. This isn't applied to necessarily everyone, but just want to talk about some of the common strengths that we've seen among this population.

Melanie Cole, MS: isn't that interesting? So when you think of the common strengths among this population, what are some of the common misconceptions about the population with neurodivergence? And as you said, it's not a medical term, but it is an overarching sort of umbrella where many do fit in. So, what are some of the misconceptions you've heard over your career?

Tyler Womack, PhD: Yeah. And so, I think a big misconception within the neurodivergent community is that the idea that neurodivergence is only a difference and not a disability. And so, within this community, they recognize that neurodivergence can include impairments. However, what the push is is to depathologize without denying these real challenges.

And so, one of the big critiques is that for neurodivergent individuals is how are we approaching our interventions? Historically, a lot of traditional interventions have focused on reducing neurodivergent traits instead of enhancing their quality of life. And so, advocates within this community are calling for supports that respect the individual's identity and are provided with their consent. And so, the goal is to not necessarily normalize behavior, but to improve their well-being and inclusion.

So as an example, let's say like a child has a really strong interest in dinosaurs and that this interest is not disruptive or harmful. So, attempting to reduce or eliminate that interest simply to make them appear more neurotypical is not likely to benefit their well-being. Instead, using interventions that can use their interest as a strength while also supporting their communication skills or working on things to foster their independence, that can actually lead to more meaningful and lasting improvements in their quality of life.

Melanie Cole, MS: Isn't that important? Really what you were just saying, and it's not about fixing them, it's about the quality of life, normalization, that's really so important. So, how can we support a neurodivergent child at home, at school, in the community? What would you like us to do to meet those ends?

Tyler Womack, PhD: That's a great question. And I do want to say that there's not necessarily a one-size-fits-all. So, every child is going to be very unique in terms of what they need. That being said, the best support comes from really understanding and adapting to that individual child. For example, at home, that's going to be their safest place. And so, at home, creating a safe and accepting environment where they can be themselves is really important. So for some kiddos, that might mean making some sensory accommodations. So for example, if you have a child that has some sensory sensitivities that can include providing accommodations like dimmer lights, quiet spaces. It can also be a space where you can really encourage your child to explore some of their special interests and use that as the source of their own motivation and confidence.

And then also, as parents, they can identify how their child has these really unique strengths and ways to build upon them. At school, I think collaboration is incredibly important with educators, counselors, and any other stakeholders that are a part of the child's life. And so, that can include things like looking at what are some appropriate accommodations or services that can really help benefit the child in the school setting, and to also encourage a really strength-based approach to learning.

Within the community, this can include things like promoting understanding among peers and neighbors, and also talking to community stakeholder holders as well about how can we create more inclusive programs for all kiddos.

Melanie Cole, MS: Those are all really, really great suggestions and ideas. And as we get ready to wrap up, Dr. Womack, I'd like you to speak to parents of children in the neurodivergent community about speaking to that child, letting them know that these are the things that they have and how do you speak to the children directly? And I suppose this falls under the spectrum disorders as well in letting a child know what's really going on with them and why they may feel a little bit different than their peers. So, give us your best advice, summarize what you've said, but also some talking points for parents.

Tyler Womack, PhD: Even though these conversations can be really tough, it's really important to have because it can really help your child understand why they're navigating things a little bit differently, why things might feel a little different for them, and also give them the confidence in their own unique strengths and abilities.

And so with that said, when having conversations with kids about neurodivergence, one of the things I would talk about is normalizing that everyone has their own unique traits and that everyone's brains work differently. All of us are going to have our strengths and weaknesses in terms of how we think and process information. And that they're not alone in that.

And so, I think it's important also to be positive and honest. So, highlight some of their strengths while also acknowledging what challenges they may be facing. You can empower them by saying that knowing how your brain works, just help us know what you need and helps us get what you need. If we frame it as a way as something that they can be proud of and not ashamed of, that can also help them feel more confident as well as help them be more able to self-advocate as well.

When talking to a child about neurodivergence, it's also important to be mindful about where they're at developmentally. And so by that I mean, we want to adapt what we're talking about to their level of understanding. So, we also want to avoid labels that sound limiting. So for example, we want to focus more so on their function, their identity and growth, and not so much focus on the difficulties. While we do want to talk about some challenges and be realistic about that, we don't want that to be the central focus of the conversation. We want this to also be really talking about what strengths they have and really boost their confidence and talk about what are ways that we can better support them so that way they can navigate their environments so that way we can support them as well.

Melanie Cole, MS: Great information. Dr. Womack, thank you so much for joining us today and really teaching us about something that not everybody knows or understands, but you've made it really so understandable and relatable. Thank you for tuning into Long Live Childhood, a pediatric health and wellness podcast presented to you by Rady Children's Health. Together, we can keep kids happy, healthy, and thriving. If you enjoyed today's episode, please consider downloading, subscribing, rating, and reviewing Long Live Childhood on Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Spotify, or Pandora. Your support truly means a lot. I'm Melanie Cole. Thanks so much for joining us today. Until next time.