Maggie McKay (Host): When tragedy strikes, whether it's local or national, kids pick up on it and they hear about it. So, what's the best way to talk to your kids about tragic events? Dr. Rachel Lapidus, clinical psychologist at Children's Mercy Kansas City, will help us out with some advice.

Welcome to the Parent-ish Podcast, where experts at Children's Mercy Kansas City talk about the little everyday things parents experience with their babies, teens, and in-betweens. I'm your host, Maggie McKay. Welcome, Rachel. It's good to have you here.

Rachel Lapidus, PhD: Hi Maggie, I'm happy to be here. Thanks so much for having me on!

Host: Absolutely. So, this is a topic every parent could benefit from for sure. As a parent, I don't want my child to be scared after we discuss a tragedy, so how do I stay calm while doing so, even if I'm a little nervous?

Rachel Lapidus, PhD: Yeah. That is such a good question, Maggie. And I think lots of parents would be concerned about that. So, when I think about how I want to be calm when I'm going into something stressful, talking to my kids about tragedy or otherwise, I usually like to do what I call coping ahead. So, I think coping ahead can be both practical and emotional. Coping ahead practically would be like thinking about what I'm going to say to them, what are the points I'm going to hit. And then, the emotional part is like, how can I help regulate myself before going into a conversation that I know is going to be hard? So, that could be thinking like, "Am I going to do some deep breathing beforehand? Am I going to watch a show I like beforehand?" Just something to get myself in the zone. And I mean, it's also okay if your kids see that you're scared too.

Last tip I have about this is, once we figure out both our emotional coping plan and our practical, what we're going to say, I think it can be helpful to rehearse the conversation going well in your head several times before you actually go into it. In the same way that Olympic athletes will rehearse in their head their event going well, we want to picture us having the conversation, our kids responding well to it, what we're going to say to their questions ahead of time. And I don't mean we need to get obsessive about something like this, but taking some time to envision it beforehand might be something that might make you feel more prepared going into the conversation itself.

Host: Right. The preparation seems to be key and you mentioned that it's okay to be scared to have the conversation with your kids. What if I don't want to have the conversation? Can professionals help guide me or have the conversation for me or should it come from the parent?

Rachel Lapidus, PhD: I totally get not wanting to do this. Of course, because that means not only facing our kids and exposing them to something difficult, we're also exposing ourselves to a lot of vulnerability and difficulty in having that conversation. So, I think it makes complete sense why you might not want to or why you might be scared to. At the same time, I also think it is something that's pretty important for your kids to hear from you directly. You are your kid's safest person. And if you are the one who is talking to them, you can also filter what is the information that they are told, making sure it is true and accurate and also, most importantly, you would be that safe space for the kid to receive the information. You are their safest person, I mean, this information is bad, so it won't feel good coming from anyone, but there is no one it will feel better coming from than from their safest person.

Host: exactly. And you know how to talk to your own child, so you don't scare them. But let's say it's your first child, you have no experience in this department, I guess you could call a professional, like if you had a counselor, and just ask them what points you should cover or how it should go. Would that be helpful?

Rachel Lapidus, PhD: If that is a service that is available to you, by all means, utilize it. I do worry that it would be hard to get in touch with a counselor quickly after a tragic event happens. And I would recommend talking to your kid about it as soon as really is appropriate.

Host: True. Rachel, are there any tragedies I shouldn't discuss with my child? Because some are just too scary and too violent.

Rachel Lapidus, PhD: That's true. There are a lot of really scary and really violent things that happen in the world. What I like to think about is if your child is able to find out this information on their own, meaning they are able to look up things on the phone or the computer independently, or they are going to school, or some sort of like playgroup, or some sort of youth group, or just anywhere that is around other people that is not just your immediate family, they are likely to hear about it from someone. And in that case, like I said earlier, it is probably best coming from you, so that you can, one, have some control over the narrative; two, help them process it and just be there to be their safe person; and three, provide appropriate and true reassurance. So, we can remind our kids, "Yes, this awful thing did happen. I am here for you, and the firefighters are on it," or whoever, whatever like first responder, whoever makes sense in that situation.

Host: Some people are of the school of thought that you should wait until all the facts are gathered. But I feel like what you're saying is more important to have it come from you and whatever you do know, at least you know they're getting the right story and not rumors. Is that right?

Rachel Lapidus, PhD: Yeah, I would say that. And I think it's okay to say to your kids, "Hey, all the facts aren't out on this yet. I'm just telling you what I know. We can continue talking about this. If you hear something else, please come talk to me, I am open and here for you."

Host: That's a good one. So, is it best to share all the information of the tragedy or just keep some of the information left out? Sometimes I say with kids, less is more. You give them what they have to know, but maybe they don't have to know every gory detail.

Rachel Lapidus, PhD: I think that makes a lot of sense. And I think also you as the parent are the one who knows your kid best and knows, 'Is my kid a kid who's going to spiral out at every detail?" or "Is my kid a kid who's going to feel safer if they have more information?" So, I would say that you can tailor to your kid with the knowledge that you have of them better than the knowledge that any professional would have because you know your kid the best.

I am personally not aware of any research that's like "This specific event is something you can't tell to your children." I think if your kid can find it, you should talk about it.

Host: Right. And you know they can, because even if they don't have access to the internet, you know one of their friends is going to tell them, or they're going to hear about it at school or like you said, whatever group, sports. If I have children of varying ages, should I tailor the conversation to them? Like if I have an older child, should I tell them more information?

Rachel Lapidus, PhD: Yeah, I would say my answer would be really like, again, you know your kids best. If you have one child who you think would benefit from more information, or maybe they're older, so they can understand things a little more abstractly, I think it would be good to provide every, all kids in the home, like a baseline information. And then, maybe if you want to talk to your older or more mature child about it, you can do that. I would just want to do some thinking ahead and be like, "Hey, so and so, older child, just so you know, I haven't shared these details with the other kids because I think they're too young or whatever the reason is and they won't be able to understand this. So, I'd appreciate if this could stay between us," or something like that just because I wouldn't want that sibling to then go tell the younger siblings because I think those younger siblings would be like, "Hey, why didn't mom talk to me about this? Or why didn't dad talk to me about this?" And then, it would just all backfire.

Host: And how young is too young to bring up the tragedies? Is there an age that it's just too young they cannot grasp it?

Rachel Lapidus, PhD: I'm not aware of any research suggesting that there is an age that is too young. I do think the type of detail, like younger kids tend to be more concrete and can't really understand gray areas. But I think at the baseline, again, if they are old enough to like have friends or social experiences or go on the internet or talk to people outside of your immediate family, they're going to know about it, and it's better if they hear it from you.

Host: And let's say the thing we most don't want to happen happens. What if your child hears about the event before you've had a chance to speak with them? Let's say something bad happens while they're at school and then their teachers tell them, their friends tell them, and you haven't even had a chance to.

Rachel Lapidus, PhD: And also, I wouldn't say that's like a worst case scenario, I would just say that's a different scenario. I mean, maybe ideally we would get to them first. But like you said, sometimes things might happen at school, or there might be other instances that go on in our lives. And when they do come home, maybe that's when I would be like, "Hey, I heard that you heard about X, Y, and Z thing. What do you know about it?" And then, they can tell you what they know, you can take that opportunity to either provide correct information if that is needed or to tell them you're there to talk about it and to let them know you're that safe place for them.

I guess there could also be a situation where they come home from school and they're not like, "Hey mom, I heard from my teacher that X, Y, and Z thing happened." You can approach them and be like, "Hey, you've been at school. This is a thing that happened while you're at school. I'm wondering if you've heard about that yet and what you have heard."

Host: Right. And what if they ask questions that you don't have the answer to? Let's say, God forbid, there's a school shooting and they say, "Why? Why did this happen?" And you don't really have an answer.

Rachel Lapidus, PhD: I think in those situations, as hard as it is, we can just say, "I don't know," or, you know, "People sometimes do things that might not make sense to us." I think a lot of time, as parents, we might think it's our responsibility to always have an explanation and to always soothe our children. And the reality of the world we live in is sometimes those things just aren't there. And what our responsibility actually is, which is not to completely shelter them or not to always provide them with answers or reassurance, it's our responsibility to show our kids that we can sit with our own emotions and model that, that we are not afraid of their emotions and we can sit with them in the emotions that they have and that we love them and will always be there for them.

Host: That's good. If my child is involved in a tragedy themselves that might cause trauma in the future, how do you become proactive about that trauma?

Rachel Lapidus, PhD: Yeah. One thing that I think a lot of people might not necessarily be aware of is that not all traumatic events would lead to the development of like PTSD or another trauma or stressor-related disorder, and that it's actually very normal to experience a lot of trauma-related symptoms after experiencing a traumatic event. And by traumatic-related symptoms, I mean things like intrusive thoughts or images or bad dreams or desire to avoid or changes in mood and emotions, being super startleable, like hyperreactive. It's really our brain's way of keeping us safe, even though it obviously doesn't feel good. But I would say if that type of thing continues persisting after around a few weeks to a month, that's when I might start getting more concerned.

Host: Well, what are the warning signs that I should look for if the trauma response is delayed?

Rachel Lapidus, PhD: Yeah. So, I would look for, sometimes, because like I mentioned, it can be hard to get in with a provider, if a traumatic event has happened to your kid, it might be good to just start the process of seeking a therapist. And then if you don't wind up needing it, if their trauma symptoms do just naturally resolve on their own, then at least you can cancel an appointment rather than having to scramble for an appointment when things are already bad.

But to answer your question about, are there warning signs I should look for after the trauma response is delayed, I would say that would be any changes in mood, or behavior, or eating, or sleeping, or school performance that pop up around after a month or so. Really anything that makes you think like, "Oh, that's not my normal kid." Things like increased irritability, eating less or eating more, sleeping less, sleeping more, isolating a lot more, any changes in like grades or school, like skipping class, increased oppositional behavior, and then even some more extreme behaviors if your kid is not already engaging on these things, like cutting or self-harm, those would be things that I would be concerned about or even thoughts about suicide would all be indications to me that that is when we need to consider enrolling in a trauma-related treatment such as like trauma-focused cognitive behavioral therapy.

Host: And what if my child starts to become scared of everyday places or everyday activities that were associated with the tragedy, like social outings, big crowds, public places?

Rachel Lapidus, PhD: Yeah. And I think that would be very common. And what I would say to a parent whose child is going through that is that it's really important to help your kid face those fears and to not overly accommodate. Avoidance is the biggest contributor to not being able to heal from a trauma and to go actually in the direction of developing PTSD. So, I would validate their feelings using technique called the three becauses, which is you tell them three reasons why their feelings make sense. Like, "I know you were scared to go to the grocery store because the shooting happened and you don't know if it'll happen to you and because blah blah blah blah and because blah blah blah blah blah. And I do think it's still important for us to go, because it is safe to go. And facing our fears is what will help us live a more free life," or something like that. We are validating that what you are feeling is real and it matters and it makes sense and we are still going to do the thing that is scary because it will help you lead the life that you want, ultimately, even though it is scary right now.

Host: Boy, Rachel, I wish I had all this advice when my son was little, when he was born. You're great. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise. This has been such useful advice and I'm sure it's going to help a lot of people. Thank you.

Rachel Lapidus, PhD: Thank you so much.

Host: Again, that's Dr. Rachel Lapidus. If you'd like to find out more, please visit childrensmercy.org/parentish. And if you found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and check out our entire podcast library for topics of interest to you.

Thanks for listening. I'm Maggie McKay. That concludes this episode of the Parent-ish Podcast. For more parenting tips and tricks, visit us at parentish.org, where we help you celebrate the craziness and challenges of parenthood.