Michelle Moyal, DVM (Host): Welcome to the Cornell Veterinary Podcast, where we deep dive into the discovery, care, and learning that happens at Cornell University's College of Veterinary Medicine. I am your host, Dr. Michelle Moyal, Visiting Assistant Clinical Professor and lover of the ugly sweater. Thank you, Cornell.

With me today is Dr. Chris Frye, who is the Section Chief of Sports Medicine and the Rehabilitation Service at the Cornell University Hospital for animals, which we will get to. We're going to explain all of these really cool things. He's also a Cornell Vet Alumni Class of 2011. I hear 2007 was really where it's at, but 2011 seems okay. But '07 is where it's at.

But yeah, I'm very excited to have you here. And I'm really excited on two fronts. So, I'm excited on the Cornell front, and we'll kind of deep dive into that, because I love finding out more about the Cornell experience for people when they went to school.

But I'm really excited because, in addition to acting as host, I get to wear my other professional hat, which hopefully won't flatten my hair too much. A metaphorical hat, if you will. I will be wearing my other professional hat as a veterinary communications manager at Purina. So, I'm very excited because you and I will be talking today about an amazing collaboration between Purina and Cornell that I want the world to know about. And it's called the Cornell Canine Healthy Aging and Mobility Program. We love us some acronyms in Veterinary Medicine. So, it is called the CHAMP. CHAMP Program, right? I guess I'm repeating that P. But the goal is to help older dogs live longer and healthy lives. So, that was a lot. Welcome to the show, Dr. Frye.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Thanks, Dr. Moyal. Glad to be here.

Host: And feel free to call me Michelle, but we're going to get right into it because I'm excited. Before we even start, because I will ask you about your journey to get to Cornell or get back to Cornell, I would love our listeners to know what the heck happens in a Sports Medicine and Rehabilitation Program? Like, what does that mean for people with pets?

Christopher Frye, DVM: Great question. Actually, it's a fairly new specialty. It's very similar to human Sports Medicine in that our primary goal really is to improve function, physical function of our pets and their mobility. We do this through various means, which includes physical therapy, pain control, or pain management as you want to say, weight control, and weight management, through nutrition, joint supplementation for things like osteoarthritis or other supplementation for options like growing muscle. So, optimal nutrition, you could consider, that type of thing.

And we put together these plans for our pets, and I'm going to use the word holistic manner, because we kind of consider everything. You know, if they have comorbidities or other diseases that need to be treated, surgeries that are warranted, we will recommend, pursuing those as well, as part of the plan, and the idea is to optimize their function and get them back to the goals that our families want them to achieve. So, it could be, for a geriatric dog, it might be something very simple like going on 10-minute walks.

Host: Stairs?

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah, going upstairs, even in and out of the home.

Host: Apartments? Yeah.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah. Navigating small obstacles on the floor can be challenging or slippery floors. And then, for other patients, you know, we see a lot of athletes, canine athletes, agility dog population, dock diving, and maybe an injury has occurred with those patients. And through medical management or through a combination of medical and surgical management, we try to get them perhaps back to sport.

Host: Oh, I love that. So, here's what I'm hearing. You play a part of this team that essentially helps our pets and maybe these pets have had surgery. Maybe they have, when you said comorbidities, just other diseases that they're taking medications for. Maybe they have arthritis and they're taking medications, they're having trouble walking, but it could be Any animal from the trouble walking just at home or they want to go for a walk with the children in the house to like a working dog or like a hunting dog or like an agility dog, because their agility is very serious. They have, like, champion agility dogs, which is so cool to watch. So cool watch.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah, it's fun.

Host: So to My dog is like, "What? Why would I? I'm on the couch. It's great." So for my dog it would be, could he jump onto the couch and off the couch in between naps? That's what I'm hearing. But that's really awesome.

And here's the other thing that I'm really excited to hear about. In Veterinary Medicine, it's nice to hear that veterinarians, no matter where they are in veterinary medicine, are thinking about pain and are thinking about holistic approaches because we have a lot of clients, like when I was in practice, a lot of clients that maybe wanted to explore supplements to help their pet. Maybe they didn't want to rely as heavily on medication. So, I love that you're thinking about that. That's really exciting.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah, we really try. You know, it's funny that the terminology out there, you can say we were integrative in that we try to integrate different approaches, or you can say we're holistic. And the term holistic just means all encompassing. Shouldn't all medicine? I always think shouldn't all medicine be holistic? It's not necessarily, you know, when we go see our own doctors, we're going there for a very specific reason. And that's typically the only thing there's time to address. But some family practitioners and things like that take into account the whole body and mind actually. So, really improving welfare all along the spectrum, which feeds into this CHAMP Program nicely. When we think about healthy aging, we think about along that entire line of aging for dogs from the time you're a puppy, to the time you're an adult, and then through your geriatric years.

And at each one of those time points, it's really about optimizing and maximizing your health level through, nutrition and exercise, preventative programs like vaccinations are helpful in young dogs and even in older dogs. And if you do acquire a disease over time, as most aging pets and people do, it's about identifying those diseases and then treat them to the best of our ability and to minimize their impacts. By doing so, you increase both quality and longevity. So, quality of life and longevity improve.

And so, the CHAMP program is really about that with more of a focus on mobility, because mobility is such an integral part of what we consider a high quality of life for both dogs and people. So, that's kind of how this program came about and that's our mission. And I think what we're doing in Veterinary Medicine now is trailing and catching up a little bit to some of our human counterparts here on these missions.

Host: That's really interesting. I think human medicine is really highly specialized and even though you're very much an expert and a specialist in this field, you're still focused on whole pet. And I think what people don't realize is long life is great, but we want long, good life. We want pets that can still walk well. We want them to enjoy their time as it links back to the mind, right? Because pets have anxiety too, just like people. And if they can't walk, it's also very stressful. Or if they're in chronic pain, it's very, very stressful. And so, I'm going to jump around. So, the goals for you with this CHAMP initiative are what? What will you do with this? Because this is a really awesome collaboration.

Christopher Frye, DVM: We would like to actually perform research that helps us define exactly what healthy aging is in our canine population. That actually really hasn't been done yet. And there are differences in opinions, and it might depend partly on the pet and the family that has that particular pet. You know, there are limitations in Veterinary Medicine. Some are in acquiring medical care or having access to medical care.

Host: Absolutely. We've talked about that here a lot.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah. There can be financial limitations, geographical limitations. Sometimes for our dogs, we even find there's limitations in climate. I mean, when it's very cold out or icy, it's slippery. These dogs are more affected if they have severe mobility issues.

Host: No kidding. For anybody watching, aging...

Christopher Frye, DVM: Oh, man.

Host: Sorry about that. But my knees today were like, "No. No, lady"

Christopher Frye, DVM: Oh, yeah

Host: Yeah.

Christopher Frye, DVM: It's fun, isn't it?

Host: Yes.

Christopher Frye, DVM: All we can do is optimize. I have to stop eating a second dinner myself. I mean, that's really where I could start in my own--

Host: darn it.

Christopher Frye, DVM: So, that's kind of what we're looking to do. And I think some major things we already know is that obesity or prevalence of obesity in dogs is a huge issue. It's been an issue for a while and we already have research showing that if we can maintain healthy body weights, dogs live longer and better. So, that's a perfect example. So, getting that information to owners at an early age as part of the preventative medicine strategy. Those things happen before my patients reach me. You know, I'm typically seeing these dogs much later. Sometimes I'll see puppies for severe hip issues and other problems. But most of the time, we're seeing them as older geriatrics here. They're heavy. They have mobility issues. They have a lot of osteoarthritis. Sometimes they have neurological issues that compound it. And we end up putting them on weight loss diets, but it would have been more ideal to have that information provided to owners with an idea of what we should strive for in our pets and why at earlier ages. And I know veterinarians, it's a constant battle,

Host: A constant battle. Doctor, I'm here to give a shout out to all general practitioners who have talked about this for years and years and years. And here's what I think is cool, and I want to bring this up because, again, Purina had us on. They happened to do one of the longest studies, right? So, the Lifespan Study, essentially following dogs throughout their lives. And you guys can google Lifespan Study, go online, and they found that a dog, in this case, let's say a lab, could live almost two years longer if they were lean.

Now, in practice, I had people who would come up to me and say, "Dr. Moyal, someone at the dog park came up to me and said I was starving my dog because my dog is thin." And I would be like, "Your dog is perfect. Don't touch your dog. Your dog is perfect." So, we have people like outside influences talking about people saying their animals are too thin. And then, you know, we have social media, which I love me a hashtag chonky cat, right? But it's not good for them, right? So, you, as the expert, let's just have you say that one more time, much easier to keep off weight than it is to lose weight, correct?

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah, it really is. And especially if you have small children like mine who drop food all the time.

Host: Foods from the heavens.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Food from the heavens for those pets. And oftentimes we think food is love, especially when you own certain breeds like the labrador.

Host: Beagles, I'm looking at you.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Beagles too, yeah, for sure. And so, what else can we do with our pets to show them love? And there's many, many things, and I think activity is one of them. And so, here's a big question. What level of activity should dogs be pursuing throughout their life, and that has never been investigated, which I find fascinating. It's a challenging thing to investigate, but it would be a worthwhile one, I believe. And how much does activity play? We know it plays a huge role in human health. How much does it play in animal health? And it would be wonderful to have that data at some point. And it plays right in part with CHAMP.

Host: That's neat. I mean, I'm just reading more and more articles that, on the human side, even 10 minutes of walking significantly impacts human health. So, we're saying that we really don't have any of this information on the animal side. And that is what you and this CHAMP Program really want to look into.

Christopher Frye, DVM: That's part of the mission. Pain control is part of the mission. Identifying disease is part of the mission.

Host: When you say disease, what do you mean?

Christopher Frye, DVM: A lot of patients come to me with musculoskeletal disease. It could be neurological. It could be tissue osteoarthritis.

Host: So, nerve problems, muscle problems, arthritis, gotcha.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yep. In Veterinary Medicine, we have not really explored and defined soft tissue injury that well. And I think part of the problem is we don't have a great way of easily diagnosing it in most common practices. So, humans go in and they have a complaint, their lower back pain, their biceps tendon hurts, and they can get their MRI. You know, they might get x-rays, they might then get sent to MRI.

 Just the other day, I had to have an MRI of my knee, my knee hurt, had prior surgery 20 years ago for my ACL ligament. They did x-rays that didn't look terrible, and then they did an MRI and it doesn't look great. But it showed I had a meniscal tear. So, I think that being able to more readily identify and understand the prevalence of soft tissue injury in various dogs would be great, whether they're athletes, older animals, things like that, that'd be something I'd like to look into.

Host: I love that. And if you tie that into what you mentioned before with access to care, not everybody who brings their dog in for limping can afford an MRI or a CT scan and a lot of people don't realize that it requires general anesthesia or heavy sedation sometimes in animals and that's like scary for people. I would be scared, you know, as a non-professional in this profession. I totally understand that. So, maybe if you can get some clues, you can help the veterinarians like me who are out there just in general practice seeing that initial limping dog.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah. Actually, we just published recently a method to use ultrasound to visualize the inner shoulder compartment. Some of those ligaments are often torn or diseased in dogs that can cause lameness. So, there are methods that you can, teach potentially in general practice by exploring them here in academia.

Host: That is so awesome. And ultrasound now is pretty readily available for a lot of veterinarians in practice. That's so neat. Okay. I mean, this program sounds like it's going to do great things, and that's a really important goal and a really important mission. And kind of I do want to ask you a couple more things. But just wondering, how did you get to where you are? For someone who didn't even know that Sports Medicine was a thing in Veterinary Medicine, they might know the journey of going to vet school, get good grades, go to college, do some things, volunteer at a vet hospital, but how did you get to be where you are? Did you always want to do rehabilitation? And now you're the section chief, which is awesome. Can you just tell us quickly how you got there?

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah, I mean, a lot of my life is just complete accident.

Host: I love that. We hear that a lot and it's the same. We hear that a ton here.

Christopher Frye, DVM: So, I think, you know, I wanted to be a veterinarian for a long time. And then, I went through a period of uncertainty and I came back to it. So, I taught kids for a while, sciences and things like that. And then, I came back to go to veterinary school eventually. I didn't even know specialist medicine existed in the veterinary community until I became a student. I had no idea that there were veterinary cardiologists or veterinary surgeons. And I went through the program here and I went and practiced in private practice as what people would consider a primary care. I was more of a general practitioner, I suppose, who they do everything, right? So, you know, I mean, you do surgery, you do emergency, you do everything. And so, you're kind of a jack of all trades.

And then, I was given an opportunity to come back to Cornell, I had an interest in nutrition, pretty heavy interest in nutrition. I felt it was something that wasn't explored well and really incredibly important. And I think you can attest to this. I mean, when you're in general practice, you get so many questions about what should I feed my dog. And it's something that we could really be more heavily involved in Veterinary Medicine. So, I thought, "Hey, I'm gonna explore this more." I came back to Cornell to do a residency and the residency was really combined Nutrition with Sports Medicine originally. And Purina actually helped fund that residency, which is interesting, and I'm very grateful for them for that. I sat out there since we're doing this, and I ended up--

Host: You heard that, Purina. You heard that here.

Christopher Frye, DVM: I'm sure, yeah. But it was, I mean, their, interest in improving dog nutrition and dog science and medicine is really incredible. So, I ended up. And now, here's where it's not going to be, so I didn't even pursue the nutrition residency after that.

Host: Hey, what a second.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah, sorry. And then, I found kind of more my interest in Orthopedic Medicine, which is really, you know, sports medicine is mainly orthopedic and neurologic medicine that's non-surgical, and working with those patients and improving their lives. And really, what we do is help identify causes of lameness through diagnostic workups. We either then--

Host: So, lameness, meaning limping of any kind.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah.

Host: Front legs, back legs. Gotcha.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yep, slowing down, limping. It could be sudden and acute or it could be something slow and progressive or chronic. And so, we'll look at anything really without a diagnosis and help gain a diagnosis. And then, based on that, we can decide, "Hey, are there surgical options, medical options, or a combination of things that we can use? And what other holistic approaches can we implement here, whether it's weight loss and nutrition, joint supplementation?" I do a lot of interventional pain control, as opposed to kind of traditional pain control, which might consist of daily pills, anti-inflammatory drugs, which can have some adverse systemic effects.

Host: Meaning like vomiting, upset stomach, not eating, right? Sometimes bloody poop. No one wants bloody poop in their house.

Christopher Frye, DVM: And those medications are great.

Host: Yes, that doesn't take away from the fact that they do work. Not every animal has those issues. People listening, they can really help.

Christopher Frye, DVM: They are, they're actually fantastic medications, but sometimes you need something to either augment it, or if there is adverse effects, to replace it, or decrease how frequently we use it to minimize those adverse effects. And so, you know, finding the exact diagnosis might allow me to do something like a therapeutic joint injection with medications or orthobiologics like platelet-rich plasma or stem cells. Sometimes we'll do injections near nerves that are impinged with corticosteroids or epidurals and things like that. So, there are different methods to implement these interventional pain strategies, and we usually do it with imaging guidance.

Host: That's so cool. So essentially, you use like ultrasound or something. And you know a joint is painful or you know the pain is coming from the fact that there's something wrong with a nerve and you're doing stuff, I mean, in people, they use a lot of what's called trigger point, right? So, you can inject pain medication, or in this case a steroid is not something that will make the dog look great on stage or at the beach. It will help the dog with inflammation. So, you'll be able to put that in there, and then you get to use other really cool things like platelet-rich plasma. Google. This is very exciting, everyone. This used to be such new technology like 10 years ago. And now, it's something that we hear all the time, which is so neat, because they do a lot of joint injections on the human side. And you get to do that now and help repair potentially, allow for healing in the joint itself.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah. A lot of the platelet-rich plasma, we run a stem cell laboratory here too, with FDA approval, of course. A lot of those we call them orthobiologics, because they're biological products that help treat a disease, usually to encourage healing or reduce pain. Those are the two kind of main purposes. And when we provide them for a joint with osteoarthritis, we don't think we're going to cure or regrow cartilage at this point, but we do know that they have a lot of local effects through cell signaling and immune system modulation that can reduce inflammation and pain.

Host: Wow. So, the injection can help tell the immune system to cut some of that stuff out. I cursed, people. I almost cursed. Like, cut that inflammation out and can help them be more mobile. That's incredible.

Christopher Frye, DVM: And I they're relatively safe, which is nice.

Host: Which is really nice. And, you know, less invasive than some things, right? There are a lot of invasive procedures that I know a lot of people are worried about, especially in older pets. Now, again, when they're warranted, they're warranted. But if this could be something that could be tried, it can really help. And I think sometimes, this is really nice, thank you for mentioning Purina's role in funding a residency. I think sometimes people think that pet food companies are just there to sell pet food. Now, I do understand that. But really, we have a motto, like, "Your Pet, Our Passion." And having worked there even for a short period of time, I really, really have come to understand the love that Purina has for pets.

So of course, we want pets eating like our complete and balanced diets and we're like so thoughtful and like science, yay. But we try to help and collaborate with experts like you to help make things like the CHAMP Program, because we want pets to live longer, healthier lives. And that just makes me so happy. It just makes me so happy to hear it. Because I don't want people to be like, "Oh, it's just pet food." It's not just pet food. And I don't know if you know this about me actually, I graduated from college with a degree in Human Dietetics.

Christopher Frye, DVM: No.

Host: Yeah. So, I studied to be a human dietitian, so I love nutrition. And I talked a lot about nutrition as a primary care provider. And it can be a struggle talking to people about nutrition. And I'm sure no one knows better than you, because there are a lot of things on the market. Sometimes there's like new things every day. I get a sponsored ad for like something I've never even heard of. It's like Anne's new dog food. Anne made it herself. I'm like, "Who's Anne?" Right? Like, who is Anne? So, I'm really glad you brought that up. So, thank you for that.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Oh yeah, you're welcome. Now, I think it's very evident to me after many years of working alongside folks at Purina, that they really, truly are indebted to that mission. They're driven, and I think that company philosophy-- I mean, you could speak more to this, would make for a very positive working environment. And I think people are really passionate about what they do there. And it gives meaning beyond what one would imagine a typical company would have.

Host: Well, thanks for that. And I do want to tell people listening because we have, and I'm sure you've talked to previous students. I think sometimes students graduate as veterinarians and maybe they are not a researcher or maybe they like research, but they don't want to be specifically in a lab, right? Or maybe they find that clinical practice is not for them, but they love veterinary medicine. And so, I didn't know that a position like this was available. So, I'm part of a team of veterinarians. And literally, I get to help talk to students. I train students on nutrition, I get to talk to doctors, and just let them know the innovations that we offer. So, being on the forefront of innovations to help animals, like, is big hearts. Big hearts. Does it? Well, okay. Yeah, big hearts. Oh, hey, big heart.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Wow. Let's see if I can do that.

Host: Yeah. Oh That was a little special effects here on the Cornell Veterinary Podcast. And so, I'm going to keep going, because I can get distracted by, you know, hearts and stuff. But I've heard you created something really interesting. But of course, it's got another acronym because, again, we love acronyms in Veterinary Medicine. You created something called the TUG test, T-U-G, also with Purina's support. Thanks, Purina. But can you tell me what the heck that is? Like, what is that?

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah. I mean, that's a great question. So, one thing we really lack in Veterinary Medicine is what we call functional testing. So, in human medicine, they have an array of different types of validated functional tests to determine--

Host: Validated meaning? Like a bunch of people did it and said, yes, this actually does prove either way if there's an issue?

Christopher Frye, DVM: That's also another very good question, Dr. Moyal. There's different ways to validate a test. So, a test needs to be reliable, mainly, right? So, does a test have value? Does it show you what you want to see? So, that's one question. So, that's called criterion validity.

Host: And this is why I'm not a researcher at all, people. Just so everybody knows.

Christopher Frye, DVM: And then, the other thing is that a test has to be repeatable. So, you know, if you do a test, it can't be all over the board every time you do it or its value is not very meaningful, right? So, when we're validating this Timed Up and Go, that's what the TUG stands for, Timed Up and Go test.

Host: Timed up and Go.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah, it's derived from human medicine, where they time a person getting up out of a chair, walking a short distance, turning around and coming back and sitting back down in the chair. So, a test like that, it looks at gait or walking gait, it looks at your ability to get up, your balance and spatial awareness, and even a bit of your cognitive functions, your ability to understand what the task is at hand and perform it.

So, you can take a test like that, say, in a geriatric population, and it might tell you things like are they more likely to fall or how long should you be hospitalized longer in rehabilitation or what your prognosis is and things like that. And that's been explored on multiple fronts in human medicine and in various populations with such a simple test. So, we took a similar idea and created our own test. Dogs are very challenging, very challenging because you can't say, "All right, Fluffy, I've never seen you before, and I've never trained you for this particular task," no matter how smart the dog is, "And I'm going to put you in an unusual environment. I'm going to ask you to perform some things for me, and we're going to measure them, and assume that you're going to get a consistent result.

Host: So, strangers will touch you. You're going to be in a new place that's not home. You're already older. You might even be in pain because your joints aren't working appropriately or you have some conditions going on. So, Okay. Yep. Yep. Easy. Sounds so easy. Okay.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Very easy. So, we spent a lot of time over the years here trying to figure out what tests are important. So, what are they measuring? So, I think balance is important, the ability to navigate obstacles. I think in an older dog, the ability to get up from a down position is so important, right? You know, some dogs really struggle to get up.

Host: Down meaning laying all the way down or just sitting butt on the ground?

Christopher Frye, DVM: Both are important. But our focus was laying down because dogs will sleep and then they have to get up in the morning.

Host: Yeah.

Christopher Frye, DVM: And geriatrics dogs do a lot of sleeping. We know that. Just like geriatric, just like my father. So, you know, I got to be able get up.

Host: I love me some naps though, people, when I have the chance to take them.

Christopher Frye, DVM: I do too. I'm not going to lie, the kids prevent me from ever sleeping now. So, we took some ideas, navigating obstacles on the floor, getting up from a down position in a repeated fashion and, getting up from a down position and walking 10 body lengths and timing it.

So, we looked at all these tests, scientifically speaking, and we found that the only reliable test that if we had two people independently observing and rating the test was the Timed Up and Go. And that test also demonstrated validity by correlating very nicely to pain and functional scores. So, the slower you are at doing this test, getting up from a laying down position and moving 10 body lengths, the more likely you are to be painful or have lack of mobility based on these prior validated scoring scales.

So, that's how we started to validate it. And we had a large group of dogs to do it. And now, we're looking at repeatability. So, is this test, if I repeated the test three times in one session, or if I repeated the test maybe today and three weeks later, do we get similar results? That would be something that's very reliable, and preliminary data right now is very positive. So, this is looking like a test that is reliable and repeatable for geriatric function.

Host: That's so neat.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah.

Host: I can see where that could tie in. And then, if they get started on some sort of therapy, no matter what the therapy is, if that time decreases from laying down to getting up or they do the walk faster. So, that's really neat because we always love, you know, being able to keep an eye on progression. So, would that be something-- so for people at home, for people at home who have older pets, I used to get a lot in practice and I'm sure you did too. The dog that struggles to get up or moves really slow and they just say, "Well, he's just old."

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yes. So, in connecting this test to that, I think you're right. This test could not only help identify dogs that were struggling from a mobility standpoint and allow veterinarians to have conversations with owners about potential underlying disease that is affecting their pet's mobility. It can also help objectively, hopefully, look at response to therapy or treatment for mobility-related disease. And it might be prognostic. It might tell us things like, what, are the odds that your pet will potentially be hospitalized for various reasons.

So, that's all down the road. We don't know. Those are some of the things they use similar tests for in human medicine. And I think that back to your question now is can this test be deployed in different environments? The idea is that it can be. And how do we educate our families about what the expectations are for their dog as it ages? And the idea is that, if they're finding their pet is slowing down, they should find a reason for it, because it may be treatable. And if not, sometimes you can't completely resolve a disease or cure it, but you can manage it, and that managing improves their quality of life. And it might improve their longevity life, particularly since we know that decreased mobility is often related to euthanasia and last time with us.

Host: Yeah. No, that's absolutely reasonable. So, what I want people, if you're not in the veterinary field, to think about is if your dog is having a tough time and they are older, is just stop in and talk to your vet. Maybe there are options. Maybe there are options that they could talk to you about, like medications. Maybe they get to send you to someone like Dr. Frye who can help you with even more options and do other tests that could help. This is the goal, right? The goal is that, in every aspect of Veterinary Medicine, we can have impact. And it doesn't mean that they have to spend, you know, a ton of money. It was amazing to see that sometimes after I just started an anti-inflammatory medication how people would come back to me, or their dog lost weight, and they would come back to me and be like, "I have a new dog! He's 15, but he's acting like he's 6." And that was so amazing. And are these the questions that you hope the CHAMP Program will continue to kind of build on? What are you really excited? Like, if there's one, you're like, "This, this is the thing I want. I want to conquer." You're like, "I want this, and this is what I want the CHAMP Program to do. I would love to use it to answer this or look at this." What's the first thing that comes to your mind?

Christopher Frye, DVM: We lack foundation, to be honest with you.

Host: So, just that basic info on like what animals do as they age.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah. And we should remember too that some breeds and sizes of dogs live different lengths, right?

Host: Yes.

Christopher Frye, DVM: That makes it a little bit more complicated. Some smaller dogs live in a purse,

Host: Little teacup yorkie who may not walk as much.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Right. It may not need to do a flight of stairs, right? And then, we have families who may not be able to lift a heavy dog. Maybe they're older, have mobility impairments themselves. And so, we often assign physiotherapy. I would like to explore its effects more. I think that's really important to do.

Host: Like swimming?

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah. We have swimming, underwater treadmill exercises for dogs.

Host: Also in my feed on TikTok, I'm in a great place in TikTok.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah, targeted strength training. I mean, all these things, we employ them in human medicine regularly and very importantly, and it's a standard to go see a physiotherapist after surgery. It's often a standard to see a physiotherapist before going to surgery and to attempt that first before going into, say, lower back surgery. So, we need that data in dogs. We need to start accumulating it. And so, when I think of my main mission is making dogs more functional and pain free, or comfortable. I didn't make that word up. Anything that does that is basically fulfilling the mission for CHAMP. And so, I have lots of ideas, I really do.

Host: Yeah.

Christopher Frye, DVM: But I think, you know, one could be dogs recovering from back surgery,

Host: That's a huge one. It's a very expensive surgery and not every dog can walk normally again after back surgery. And so, this is an investment and it is neat. And I want to make sure people understand when they listen. Like you work at an academic institution, but it does not mean you have endless funds to do all of this research so easy. You clearly want to do good things for animals, and we clearly need this foundational information, but it's not always there for you, and that's part of the reason why this collaboration is so neat.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah. We have to procure monies to perform research, whether it's writing grants or partnering in this particular case for the CHAMP Program. It's a beautiful partnership to help fund, you know, within our goals, how to improve pet life. So for me, it's wonderful. I am able to do so much more than I ever could with these resources. And I think that's a really wonderful thing for me and other veterinarians who are driven to do that, and then for these pet owners who hopefully will benefit from these endeavors.

Host: I love that. So, as the representative with my Purina hat on today, thanks for doing that for pets, and we're really excited to be a part of it. You know, I asked you a lot of interesting questions, little science-y questions. And now, I like to jump into what I call a little bit of a lightning round, just like a get-to-know-you. So that way, when people email you and they're like, "I heard you on the podcast, you sound pretty interesting," they've got some info.

Christopher Frye, DVM: I've got two kids. I do nothing.

Host: You do not? Okay. So then, we'll take it to sweet or salty?

Christopher Frye, DVM: Salty.

Host: Okay. I like both, but here we are.

Christopher Frye, DVM: I don't have much of sweet tooth. Yeah.

Host: Wow. Okay. Okay. Well, I understand you salty chip eaters. I'm just both. Okay. So, I always try to ask a little bit of a question about when you're doing work, like on your own: music, yay or nay?

Christopher Frye, DVM: No, I like to hyperfocus with a very quiet environment.

Host: Just quiet. So, like, nothing in the background. That's the way I was actually as a student. And sometimes people were like, "Dr. Moyal, there's nothing on. How could you do this?" Okay. But when you do listen to a music, what do you put on?

Christopher Frye, DVM: Oh, I listen to like almost everything, except maybe heavy metal. I don't do a lot of heavy metal. But, you know, I do country.

Host: Sure. Is there a go-to group?

Christopher Frye, DVM: No, not right now. I do everything. Alternative rock, country, I'll even do some rap. Yeah, I do it all.

Host: I love the exposure to all the different genres of music. Okay. Oh, well, we talked about this. Star Trek or Star Wars?

Christopher Frye, DVM: This is a great-- you know, I love--

Host: Disclaimer! Disclaimer!

Christopher Frye, DVM: I love both these franchises. I'm going to go Trek though. There's something very science-y about Trek compared to Star Wars. Star Wars is more mythical in a way, and Star Trek is a little bit more science-y, which I like.

Host: There's a lot of science in Star Wars. There's a lot of-- I'm not going to get into it. I to like go X-Wing and yeah, so...

Christopher Frye, DVM: Yeah. I feel like if the science was good, they would have resolved the hyperdrive difficulties, but they haven't. So, I'm just throwing that out there.

Host: You heard it here, folks. That was actually a very valid argument. One last question before I let you go because this has been so great, is there one memory that you have where you're like, "Today was the day I really loved being a veterinarian. Today was the day." Like, I love being a veterinarian every day, but everybody knows there's challenges. There's challenges. There's challenges to any job. But there was like one, and you don't have to use the patient's name, but if there was like a patient and you were like, " This is where I saw where rehabilitation or sports medicine and nutrition, this made the difference and this is why we're changing lives."

Christopher Frye, DVM: I've had a few of those situations where families will contact me. And it could be years down the road to tell me what a difference that me or my team has made. And that's something that really helps in this profession, I think. And I'm sure it would in any profession. Sometimes I get photographs to hang. And actually, right now, we are currently hanging photographs of long-term patients of ours up in our working area. And it's wonderful to see them every day. And I think, for me, what I love the most is just going and talking to people. Now, normally, my residents get to do that now, but I really like just getting to know the people that are coming in and feel value in bringing their pets to me. So, it's almost not a particular circumstance, but just kind of a general theme of what kind of keeps me ticking, I suppose.

Host: Yeah. Sounds like veterinary medicine. You know, yeah, kind of awesome.

Christopher Frye, DVM: Kind of different. You know, it's like you were saying earlier. It's got all these different parts to it that I think we can appreciate as people. And I like the different parts to my job.

Host: I love that. Thank you so much for being here. For everyone listening, Dr. Frye is the Section Chief of our Sports Medicine and Rehabilitation Service at Cornell University Hospital for Animals. Take a gander, Google the CHAMP Program. Remember, it's the Cornell Canine Healthy Aging and Mobility Program. Yes, she had to read that off the paper because it's a lot of letters. I'm so excited you were with us for another episode. Please subscribe on any platform you choose. Like and rate us, like us a lot. And we will talk to you soon. Thanks for joining us on the Cornell Veterinary Podcast.