Michelle Moyal, DVM (Host): Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Cornell Veterinary Podcast, where we deep dive into the discovery, care and, learning that happens at Cornell University's College of Veterinary Medicine. I'm your fabulous host, Dr. Michelle Moyal, visiting Assistant Clinical Professor, and favorite Purina veterinarian, and by the way, Women's World Rugby fan. If you're not watching the World Cup, you should be. I digress. With me today is Dr. Steve Osofsky, the Jay Hyman Professor of Wildlife and Health Policy at Cornell University's College of Veterinary Medicine, and the Director-- there's a lot of words people, but he's really important-- of the Cornell K. Lisa Yang Center for Wild Life Health. Welcome to the Veterinary Podcast. Thank you for joining me today.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Thanks so much for having me, Michelle.

Host: I love it. I'm very excited to talk to you. And I'm going to read like a short bio. I'm barely scratching the surface at some of the things you've done, but I'm going to read it to the audience because I want them to get just a little taste of what you've done and what you do.

Before joining us at Cornell, he has worked as a wildlife veterinarian in Africa, a zoo veterinarian, a Biodiversity Program Advisor at the US Agency for International Development. He was an overseer of Rhino, Elephant and Tiger-- you heard that right-- Conservation Programs at the World Wildlife Fund. And he was the Executive Director of the Wildlife Conservation Society's Wildlife Health Programs around the world. He's one of the pioneers of both the One Health and Planetary Health Movements. Don't worry, people, we will get to it. Very much a huge welcome and thank you for joining us, Dr. Osofsky.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: No, thanks. And when students hear that, I just tell them all that happened because I couldn't keep a job. Just had to keep moving.

Host: Great. You know what? I love here, and we're going to get into that story because I often tell students, "So what if you end up leaving a job or going in a different direction?" Like, it ends up being a great story. You end up on a podcast. I'm very excited about that.

So, first of all, obviously, I've read what I think is an impressive career journey relating to wildlife health. And what I really want to know and what I always ask our guests, because I think our listeners, what they're really excited to hear is what got you interested in this field? Like, did you know from a young age like wildlife was where you wanted to be? Or did it kind of develop over time?

Steve Osofsky, DVM: No, I'm one of those who always wanted to be a wildlife vet. And I think I can kind of trace it back to two things. When I was six or seven-- and I'm going to age myself-- but I used to watch on Sunday nights Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom. Marlin Perkins was this sort of statesmanlike elderly gentleman who would sit in a tent, I think sipping martinis while his younger assistant, Jim Fowler, would go jump out of helicopters and grab bears and wrestle crocodiles.

Host: I mean, that sounds like an okay arrangement. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Yeah, no. And I decided to try and be the Jim Fowler, although I'm getting closer to the martini-holding Marlin Perkins at this stage.

Host: We love that here. A good mix. By the way, for people listening back in the what I'd like to refer to as the olden days, we also used to get up and change the channel physically on the TV. I would just like to remind people that he probably had to actively participate in finding this show.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: And adjusting the rabbit ears on the TV to get the signal.

Host: Yes. We had antennas on the TV. Oh, my goodness. Taking it back. I love it. So, you always knew. Was there a moment? Like, was it that show? Was there a pivotal moment that you can recall?

Steve Osofsky, DVM: This is going to sound trite. But also, I mean, at that same age, I remember going to what I now recognize was a probably not so high quality roadside zoo, the Catskill Game Farm. And I remember being eye level with a white rhino.

Host: If you're still around Catskill, we're not saying anything bad, just a comment on back then.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: They're not around. They actually were closed down.

Host: Great. Okay. Oh, oh no. Oh my gosh. Another story for another day.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: I talked to my lawyer before doing this interview. Yeah.

Host: Got it. Okay.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: So, I'm just looking at this rhino eye to eye, and this is in, you know, upstate New York.

Host: There was a rhino in upstate New York? Oh my gosh.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: In this zoo. And I said to my dad, "How is this animal here?" And he told me a little bit about it. I started reading that this animal was brought from South Africa. Anyway, there was something about looking a white rhino in the eye at that age that certainly just continued to, you know, foster that interest. And I mean, I never wanted to be anything else really.

Host: Yeah. Oh, that's so neat. You found your passion at a young age. And for everyone listening, different paths, if you found a passion for it now, let's say listening to your favorite podcast, that's okay too. The rhino's there for everyone to help.

We're going to jump around a little bit because I like to talk about kind of our commonalities. So, I'm a graduate of the vet school at Cornell, and I understand that you're an alum as well, class of 1989, which is-- okay, not to state the date for a point, but veterinary medicine has significantly changed since the late '80s. It's significantly changed since I graduated in 2007. So, could you tell us a little bit about what it was like to be a vet student then? Notice, people, I'm not saying back then, because the '80s were awesome. So, I'm just saying at that time.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Well, I remember doing the brontosaurus physical exam labs. Those were very challenging. I think, they've dropped those since then.

Host: If you're watching this, you should have just seen my face, everyone.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: No, I'm feeling like this is the senior hour of your podcast. Let's not age me too much. No, honestly, I love that school. In the '80s, our class size was 80. It's obviously larger now. And I think one of the things that I really remember, we didn't have a hugely diverse curriculum in terms of wildlife medicine. We had a little bit. But even then, we had a very active student group. And now it's called ZAWS, the Zoo and Wildlife Society. And the group used to bring in outside speakers. And I remember that being really important to my professional growth, because it was like you were craving sort of-- I mean, we had to learn the dog, cats, horses, chickens, and cows and pigs. But to get a taste of the wildlife side was always very important. So, one of the things I do now is try and bring in as many really cool guest speakers so our students get that as well. And the student group is very active these days, so that's been great.

Host: That's awesome. I talk a lot on this podcast about something called diversity of thought. Sometimes it's just nice to bring in speakers. One, because they're experts in their respective fields, but two, they're just from another place. They have different years of experience so they can share their experience and then that can be impactful to different students. And sometimes it's nice to hear from people from different countries or just different facilities. So, I really love that Cornell, and you are doing this for our student body. So, that's really great. Was there a favorite restaurant at the time? I always talk about this.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Oof.

Host: Favorite food when you're studying, people, right?

Steve Osofsky, DVM: You know, this place near East Hill Plaza has changed hands so many times.

Host: I know what you're talking about.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: It was like The Caboose or something. I don't even remember what it was called. But now, should I give them free advertising? I don't know.

Host: You can. We support it wholeheartedly here.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Well, now, it's BG Budas, a relatively new Italian restaurant. But back in the '80s, it was some sort of more like a tavern, and that's one of the places we used to hang out.

Host: I know exactly what you're talking about. was a different type of restaurant when I was a student. And so, great, I think a lot of memories can be linked to food and school and that's why I bring it up. So, I think that that's really fun.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Let me ask you, Michelle, just as a slight aside, I found whenever we'd go out to dinner, as vet students, we would inevitably start talking about things that were important to us, but were actually disgusting to the table next to us. And so, we really got in trouble a lot with, "Can you people quiet down?" Because we'd talk about a surgery we saw or an abscess we drained. And that doesn't go off well in public restaurants.

Host: By the way, everyone, that holds true, even to this day, we can't help it. We have to share. And have I eaten lunch after, you know, I just dealt with a bunch of like parasites and things? I sure have. We kind of get past it quickly at vet school

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Well, we wash our hands before we eat.

Host: Now, as I mentioned in the intro, you're considered a pioneer of the One Health Movement, and we've touched upon that during the podcast in general. But I would love for you to explain what One Health is, and if you don't mind also adding, why is One Health really important? Because it is.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Sure. For me, One Health is an approach. It's a way of recognizing that our own health, the health of wildlife, the health of our domestic animals are all inextricably linked and, very importantly, all underpinned by how we steward the environment. So, what it really brings to bear is the need for a holistic approach to health and environmental challenges. In other words, if you only approach a disease issue in wildlife or in domestic animals or in ourselves, just with that one species or that one patient and ignore all the factors that are actually leading to that state of illness, you're likely not going to solve the problem for the long term.

So, One Health really makes you take a step back. It's what I described as systems thinking so that you think about these linkages so that you can actually find the real root cause of the malady or problem that you're trying to solve, rather than just deal with a particular symptom, if that makes sense.

Host: It does make sense because thinking about it, especially as someone who is in clinical practice, if you're treating symptoms or signs of a disease, then essentially they will return if you don't identify and treat the root cause, right? And so, I love that. And now, and you're also looking at other factors, right? So, we could say, "Hey, this disease just developed," but it could be genetic, it could be environmental, it could be all of those things together. And when we look at it in the animal population, it can also benefit the human population and vice versa.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: I mean, it's really about trying to find that way to optimize the health of all of us, all of who share the planet, you know, rather than just pick and choose. And I think if we're wise about it, we can do that.

Host: And for everyone listening, when veterinarians take their oath, right? So, we take an oath when we become doctors. And essentially, we know that we're here to help animals, but that oath includes the betterment of humans as well. Now, whether or not that's the betterment through health or research or through the human animal bond, right, the connection that humans have with animals, we all do it in a different way. But it is linked from our very beginning that we will, you know, participate in this One Health approach, but some more than others. So, how did you become involved in this One Health movement essentially?

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Yeah. I mean, being in conservation it, the idea of One Health was somewhat just baked in. It seemed very obvious to me, but it certainly wasn't something that people were thinking about at the time. And when I started at WCS, I worked with Dr. Billy Karesh, and he was very much a One Health thinker, a systems thinker. All of our projects, all of our programs really were taking this approach. And we thought it was really important to start promulgating this and sharing the concept.

So, the first sort of, for me, public airing of this concept was in 2003 when I launched the Animal and Human Health for the Environment and Development Program, which the acronym is AHEAD. And that was focused on these interfaced One Health--

Host: We love acronyms.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: These One Health issues in Southern Africa, and I know we're going to get to that. But then, that was a very successful launch and that program still exists. That was, you know, more than 20 years ago. But in 2004, we decided to do a launch really of the One Health concept in New York City. And we held what we called, you know, the One World One Health Symposium. And we held it at Rockefeller University and we had colleagues from FAO and WHO and other multilateral

organizations and academia and NGOs. And we really outlined the reasons that this was important, along with lots of examples of how we could do better as stewards of Planet Earth and stewards of health among species and among humanity.

At that 2004 conference, we launched what we call the Manhattan Principles on one World, One Health. And those are still referenced today. It's a series of principles that outline why this is important and how it can, again, make us more efficient and successful. That's really when the term One Health started. If you Googled it, we've had no Google then. But if you did, if we had had Google, there would have been--

Host: We looked it up in books.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: There would've been zero hits the day before that conference, I think. But now, you know, that obviously has become more common parlance, certainly among veterinarians, but also more broadly among health and conservation practitioners.

Host: That's so neat. Here's what I hope listeners hear from that, I mean, acronyms aside, what I love about this is you had a passion, you sought to make something better, you worked with others because collaboration is very important. Yes, even in clinical practice, you are not a lone wolf. But you now have a longstanding legacy that is still taking care of this very important group, right? Group of animals, and again, people as well. So, legacy is, I think, an interesting concept. We've talked about it on the podcast before, but what a beautiful legacy. And I just wanted to highlight that, because I think that that's really important. Has anything changed since you started? Because you said, again, we weren't googling things. So, what do you think is the most significant thing that has changed from when you started in One Health and now?

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Well, the most obvious change is how relatively well understood this concept is among a much wider audience than initially. And honestly, it was sort of almost a secret among the veterinary community for quite a number of years. It really didn't take off right away. And part of that, part of the utility of it really became clear in the mid-2000s when we were having, you know, really obvious problems with things like Avian influenza. And, you know, it was being detected in places in Asia in people, but not in poultry. And that really spoke to the disconnect between public health practitioners and the veterinary community. And so, again, some of the big multilaterals who were involved in our initial launch started to capitalize on the concept and bring different sectors of health practitioners together, the public health community, the veterinary community, other members of the biomedical community to solve particularly these emerging infectious disease issues. You know, we were dealing with Avian influenza. We were dealing with things like Ebola.

So, the good news is the One Health concept helped break breakdown silos among the human and animal health disciplines. The sort of bad news is that One Health sort of almost became synonymous with emerging zoonotic diseases, zoonosis being the types of diseases that move from animals to people. But if you look back at the Manhattan principles, for example, our intent was always for it to include that, but be much broader than that, not to be confined to just those types of diseases, but I think we've progressed. I think that is more of the case now, people are using One Health to solve a broader array of problems. But there was a long period of years where you could have looked at everyone who was using One Health was basically using it as synonymous with dealing with zoonotic diseases and that was a little bit constraining.

Host: Could you tell me what do you mean when you say multilaterals?

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Multilateral organizations are organizations that bring different countries together, like in the UN system, so the World Health Organization, the Food and Agricultural Organization, things like that.

Host: Awesome. See, people, we figured that out. We didn't figure it out. We had to ask. That's okay. So, you have this One Health program that you are putting all of your heart and soul into. Why did you feel a need to develop the Planetary Health concept, which I would like you to describe to our listeners as well?

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Yeah, no, that's an important question, because the answer isn't intuitively obvious. But the One Health concept took a long time to really gain traction and certainly outside of the biomedical community. Basically, outside the veterinary community, it remained poorly understood for many, many years. And as a conservationist, which is what I am and what drives my passion, you know, I worked mostly in my career in lesser developed countries. And I was looking for ways to build constituencies for conservation. You know, if you're a poor country, conservation's often a luxury, and I get that. Biodiversity may not be your number one priority, but health is often a priority for countries.

So, I should probably explain what Planetary Health is when I described One Health as an approach, thinking about those inner relationships, Planetary Health is much more goal-directed. It's actually a field. It's a field of study it's a field of applied science. I define it as improving our understanding and our ability to measure the human health impacts of anthropogenic environmental change, anthropogenic meaning change that we as people cause. So, we are looking at what is the changing environment, the changes we're driving: deforestation and loss of coral reefs and pollution. What is that doing to our own health? And how can that inform better public health policy, environmental policy, land use policy, and ocean use policy. So, as a conservationist, it was my way of trying to look for the biggest lever arm I could pull. If I could convince countries that conservation could deliver public health outcomes cost effectively, then I'd be creating a much broader constituency, a bigger tent for both conservation and health.

And the One Health concept, maybe I was impatient, it wasn't moving that along fast enough. You know, I spent a lot of my early career talking to Departments of Wildlife or Ministers of Environment, which was great, but they're often the least powerful parts of a government. But I wanted to be talking to the Minister of Public Health or the Minister of Finance to influence their thinking. And Planetary Health, I think, did create that lever arm in a number of ways, because we started to document the science where environmental conservation of grasslands, of forests, of coral reefs, et cetera, could be really cost-effective ways to improve the health of a country's population. That's a compelling argument, and that's why Planetary Health became important to me.

Host: Yeah, I love that. And it sounds just like what we were talking about earlier, we don't want these countries actually to treat a sick population because then they're just treating the symptoms or the disease. We would like to use what we know about what we're doing to the planet, what's happening to our resources in our environment to help them in turn also hopefully lessen people with those diseases and then better treat them. So, it all ties in together. I love that. I really love that.

So, on your bio, because I always stalk, I love to stalk people. It's not in a creepy way, I promise. I won't do it after this. It says you focus on the conservation of free-ranging wildlife. Could you just tell our community what that means?

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Right. So, I'm trying to work to ensure that wildlife around the world is still there for future generations. You know, we're in a bit of a biodiversity crisis. We're losing a lot of species. And so, the way I think of my training as a veterinarian, I look for problems that really do have health at the center of them, because that's the skillset that I help bring to the toolbox. Like as you said, we all work collaboratively. We try and develop, you know, sensible teams. And I'm trying to think what's the most important thing I can bring to the table?

And so, a lot of my personal work has been in Southern Africa trying to solve one of the most intractable problems that I experienced, you know, early in my career. So when I first graduated, I sort of learned how to be a wildlife vet. I did, you know, a number of different training experiences. But my first real job in the field was as Botswana's First Department of Wildlife and National Parks veterinarian. And I went there in 1991, and one of the things that kind of hit me in the face was this real tension between wildlife conservation and livestock, the livestock industry. And that was manifested in these vast fences, thousands of kilometers of fences that were put in place to separate wildlife from cattle. Because wildlife, particularly buffalo in this case, carry some diseases that are quite important economically. And this fencing policy started in the 1950s when most of the countries that I'm talking about, including Botswana, were European protectorates or colonies. So, this is a really a policy put in place by the British and the Germans, because nobody cared about wildlife really in the 1950s. They were focused on livestock as particularly the colonialists because they were trying to make money.

Meaning they didn't want wildlife to get into the livestock and harm the livestock cause disease decimate the population, then they would lose money, right? Because this is how a lot of their communities are surviving, whether or not it's meat or milk or whatever. Okay, perfect.

Well, I wish it was as benevolent as concerns about local communities. It was really more about creating export markets, and those didn't always benefit the poorest of the poor. So fast forward to today, today, wildlife really matters to countries in Southern Africa like Botswana and Namibia, Zimbabwe and Zambia, et cetera. I'll use Botswana as an example because that's where I work the most. Livestock contributes about 3% to the gross domestic product of that country. And it's been sort of stagnant there. It's not very much. But wildlife has been contributing right now and pre-COVID and now coming back out of COVID, about 11% of the gross domestic product. And it had been growing pre-COVID at about 5% a year. So anyway, my point is--

Host: Due to tourism?

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Tourism. Nature-based tourism.

Host: Okay. Because people are coming to see the wildlife. Okay, gotcha. We're on board, people.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: What my work is about is trying to balance those two baskets. We want resilient livelihoods. We want people to be able to make a living from a diversity of things. And if the livestock and wildlife are in conflict over disease, that's a real problem. So, I'll try and compress 30 years of work into the few minutes we have remaining. But basically, these fences were decimating the migrations that are the lifeblood of wildlife being able to survive into the future. And then, elephants break these fences. And because the Europeans left a long time ago, which is a good thing, a lot of this fencing, our infrastructure and a lot of the other disease control tools were subsidized. And they're very expensive. And so, today, a lot of the Southern African countries are struggling with the resources to maintain thousands of miles of fences as elephants knocked them down. And so, they're not really always doing what they were intended to do decades ago.

Meanwhile, I spent, when I launched the AHEAD Program that I mentioned back in 2003, the whole idea behind AHEAD was to find an alternative way of solving this conflict. And over the years, we didn't know what the answer was going to be, but we found it. And to make a long story short, we came up with a way that involves a very simple approach to processing beef that can definitely make it free of a virus, like foot and mouth if the cow had it, safe for export. That was based on existing science, we didn't invent. It's about making sure the cattle are vaccinated and quarantining them and how you slaughter the cow and what temperature the beef is processed at and taking out the bones at a certain stage. It's actually very simple meat processing, but what took us more than 10 years was convincing the international regulatory authorities that this focus on how the beef is processed would yield a product that was safe, and it was just as good as fences.

Host: Right.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: And that took almost 10 years.

Host: And for everyone listening, I know we say it sounds rather simple, and he manages to say it simple because he's done this, but there are so many steps that go into food safety. I want everybody to understand there's a lot that needs to go into it. And so, it's really revolutionary to say, "Hey, listen, it's not just a fence. We can do these other things and you will make the money you need to, you can export what you need to, plus it'll be safe for the population. So, these are very, very meaningful advancements. And so, as we talk about the places you've been to, one of your biggest projects has been in Southern Africa, specifically in the Kavango Zambezi Transfrontier Conservation Area. I hope I did not butcher that.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: You got it right.

Host: Okay. Just working to restore wildlife roots as kind of we had touched upon. So, can you tell our listeners how has this effort helped over the past few decades? Is that part of this, at the heart of that?

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Right. Absolutely. It's at the hub of the Kavango Zambezi.

Host: Love it.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: So, we will call it KAZA for short, then easier. So, KAZA is what we call a transfrontier conservation area. That's when one or more countries agrees to try and reconnect between a national park, say, in Botswana and a national park or game reserve in Namibia, so that these wildlife migrations can be restored.

Host: That's awesome.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: And really, the driver among these countries is largely economic. So, KAZA is five countries: Angola, Botswana, Namibia, Zambia, and Zimbabwe, who've come together, they signed a heads of state level treaty in 2011 to do this. This is a vast area. It's basically the size of the Northeastern US. It's about 500,000 square kilometers. And these five countries want to restore wildlife migrations, because that can help alleviate poverty. Tourism and associated industries can make a big difference. It doesn't replace cattle. a supplement so that, again, you have that resilience opportunities for people to make a living. But those fences that I told you about are blocking this vision for connectivity.

And so, our solution to focus on how the beef is processed so you don't need as many fences has been officially adopted now by these countries and it's moving forward. So, we are now actively working with communities in KAZA to help them better manage their livestock, to improve vaccination, to improve their herding, which is actually a great way to make them healthier and safer from disease. Because beef wasn't yielding good prices, people weren't really investing and even herding their animals in places like Northern Botswana. And so if you're not herding, your cattle can wander off. They can come into contact with a buffalo and contract foot and mouth disease. Herding helps you keep your livestock away from lions. Some communities were losing 20% of their cows to lions. You can't be successful if you're losing that many cattle every year. But if you herd them and you put them in a pen at night, which is something we're working on with these communities, their incomes go up, the cattle are more productive. And at the same time, the governments are now saying, "All right. If this is all coming together, we can take down the fences that are most important to wildlife migrations." And so, I'm hoping in the next five years, after 30 years of really trying to wrap our heads around this conflict, we're on the verge of solving it, and that's because of the partnerships we bring.

My role as running the AHEAD Program for the past 30 years, I call myself a biodiplomat, because I've had to shuttle between departments of veterinary services, wildlife departments, livestock keepers. Because in some of these countries, historically, there hasn't been a lot of dialogue across, you know, government departments, that's not unique Africa. We see that here too, of course. To get USDA and the Department of Interior here to work together is not always a given. So, part of the AHEAD program is really about breaking down barriers and, honestly, although we have a lot of important meetings and official conferences on managing these diseases, the secret sauce for the progress we've made is sometimes just the breaking of bread, bringing people together so that they can see, you know, the face with the phone number, the face with the email. So, there's a bit more trust. A lot of this is about trust.

Host: Yeah, agreed. And again, remember, everyone, I know it almost sounds counterintuitive. You'd be like, "Of course, everybody wants to support animals and wildlife. Like, why would we not want to support?" But it unfortunately involves a lot of factors, and there could be countries that don't get along diplomatically or get along but they're struggling in other ways. And they don't feel like they have the time or the resources to talk about this. And we have this biodiplomat-- I really like that term-- coming in and saying, "No, we can all work together. Let's meet first--" because it's very easy to say no, we know this. When someone calls you, you're like, "I'm just going to send that to voicemail." But when you see them in person, they show up, you're like, "Ugh, I can't send them to voicemail. I have to talk to them." But in a way, that's really, really good, right? She tries to make an analogy where she feels like it would make the point come across.

So, you have worked around the world in the field, is there like one story that if someone's like, "Do you have a story that you like to tell?" I typically say at a cocktail party, if you're a drinker-- I'm not a drinker-- but if I'm eating dessert, I would love to hear a memorable story. Is there one story you have where you're like, "This is the story I tell everybody about being a wildlife veterinarian, about doing conservation"? What is that story?

Steve Osofsky, DVM: There are a number of them.

Host: He would be great a party. Send the invites now.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: I'll just throw one out there. One of the projects I had in Botswana, I was helping a biologist radio collar zebras, to get a handle on their migrations. So, he had a MicroLite that he would use find the zebras and to track them. You know, they had a radio collar so you could track them with an antenna. this MicroLite, basically, it was a glorified lawnmower with wings. It was not an impressive-- it was sort of almost the Wright brothers might've been nervous to get in it. But anyway, when I was young before I had a family and was more risk-tolerant--

Host: Less risk-averse.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Less risk-averse. Anyway, so we went up in this MicroLite. We were circling looking for zebras because we had to plan our operation. And he came down too low and the wing hit a tree. And we spun around and we crashed. And luckily, we were going slow enough that we weren't injured. But the MicroLite was trashed. And so, we're in the middle of nowhere. This is in Northern Botswana. There was just nothing that we could see. And so, I looked at this glorified lawnmower and I said, "Where's your toolkit?" And he had a little toolkit, because you couldn't carry much in a MicroLite. The wings were all smashed up. We couldn't fly again. I said, "We got to get the wings off and try and drive this thing out of here." We get these monkey wrenches out and we're frantically working, trying to get the wings And these two huge male lions just saunter by, just like as close as, know, six--

Host: Just strolling.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: I have pictures of this. They're like 10, 15 feet away. And all I can say is the reason we're doing this interview is because these lions weren't hungry. They must just eaten. And they just looked at us and they just walked by, looked around. And I was like, we didn't get the wings, we just stood there, and the lions just walked away. And then, a few hours later, a military truck came by and we flagged them down, and we spent another few hours with 10 guys loading this MicroLite into this truck. But I've not been in a MicroLite since.

Host: That sounds very reasonable. I would say that that's a solid story. That is solid, a good story. So briefly, let's talk about the K. Lisa Yang Center for Wildlife Health. So, it launched in 2024 and it seems that we're making some impacts through this, which is incredible. Can you just tell us more about the center, what you feel it's about. because we've had other people talk about it, but I really like to hear from individuals and how they see it's making impact.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: And I'm very grateful to Lisa Yang, who's been an incredible partner in this. She provided us with an incredible gift to launch the center. We had started a wildlife health center at Cornell, and it's a virtual center, but it's an umbrella for all the amazing things that are happening at the veterinary college, but also at other parts of the university in this wildlife health One Health conservation space.

And the whole idea was to create more of a community of practice, more opportunities for collaboration. And obviously, that takes resources. So now, we have funding for some of these programs that we've been talking about as well as programs, you know, basically around the world. And we've also been able to do a lot more for our students in terms of getting them anywhere they want to go in their summers to get mentored experience, experiential learning. We have a new postdoctoral fellowship program where we're bringing in young scientists to train with us in the wildlife health space. We're supporting some PhD students. But a lot of what we do is work with our country partners around the world, NGOs, governments, communities. The whole vision for this is a healthier future for wildlife people and planet. And really, I like to tell people that we do this because we need nature, and now nature needs us. That's sort of our slogan. And a lot of people don't know what that means. People say, "We don't need nature. We can do whatever we want." And we really do need nature for everything we survive on. We need nature for clean water and nutritious foods and

clean air.

Host: Yep, absolutely.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: And when I say nature needs us, people sometimes really say, "Well, nature's fine. They don't need us." But what I mean by nature needs us, nature needs us to be better stewards. Nature needs us to be mindful, less destructive, thinking about taking, you know, advantage of all the bounty that the earth still provides, but in a way that we don't over harvest it and use it all up so that it's still there for generations to come. And that really the way we're trying to think about this as a center. So, it's about actual outcomes and impacts in the world for wildlife and the communities that often depend on that wildlife. And it's also about training the next generation, because we're obviously at a great universe like Cornell, and training's a big part of our mission.

Host: Absolutely. It's very easy, I'm sure, in this modern world to just focus on what you're doing and forget that the impact of even the smallest thing can really affect nature and our wildlife. So to be conscious of it is something I try to do daily, but it's not easy. We have to have it top of mind. So everyone listening, there are things that we can do. Are there-- and I'm going to kind of go down this rabbit hole-- when you talk to people and they're like, "What can I do? Is there anything I can easily do to be a good steward?" What do you tell them?

Steve Osofsky, DVM: That's probably the most common question anyone gets, I mean, people forget that individual choices add up, right?

Host: It sure do.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: I mean, everyone thinks, "Well, it's kind of like voting." People say, "I'm not going to vote. What does my vote matter?" But that's just not the way it works. And I would start with that. I would start with being engaged politically. At least the most minimal thing is vote as a citizen. Wherever you live in the world, if you have the privilege of voting, and I hope everyone listening does, but they may not, the first thing is pick good leadership. Because the governance everywhere I work in the world, without good governance, you can't usually achieve meaningful conservation or public health outcomes. Our food choices matter in terms of eating closer to the plant-based foods as much as you can. In terms of environmental impacts, our consumer choices matter. In terms of products that are, you know, less environmentally, negatively impactful, your transportation choices, you know, the individual choices we make really do add up. And then, obviously, supporting conservation organizations, whether it's something you do as a profession or whether you're a donor, I think all of us can make a contribution in the choices that we make. So, there's a whole range of things that we can do.

Host: I think a lot of us, when we think about voting, we might think of there are a lot of good reasons to vote, everyone. Please exercise your right to vote, as he mentioned. But what again we're forgetting about is that there are policies that are voted upon or decided upon by the leaders we choose that really do affect wildlife and nature and our communities and subsequently our health. And so, we can have big impact at the polls should we choose to exercise that right. So, I know that sometimes people are like, "What is my vote going to do?" But if everyone votes and then the population's voice is heard as a whole, we can make a really big impact. I really appreciate that you mentioned that.

Out of all the things you've done and you have done a lot, which is really fantastic, is there something that you're the most proud of? Is there something that sticks out to you and you're like, "I am so glad as a Cornell veterinarian, as a wildlife veterinarian, as a person who has focused on One Health, is there something that you're like, "This--"?

Steve Osofsky, DVM: You want me to pick my favorite child? Is that what you're asking me to do?

Host: As an aside, maybe you should tell us who your favorite kid is. We'll hide it from them as well.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: I would say proud and humbled is the combination. I think the two things come to mind. I mean, the Southern Africa work, we're not done, but I'm very pleased with, you know, the decades of investment we've made to help the people of the region, you know, of KAZA and the wildlife of KAZA. And because the people in the wildlife are inextricably linked together with their lives, with people's livestock. So if we can see that through and get some of the major migrations restored by taking down some of the most damaging fence sanctions, at the same time help the poorest of the poor get out of poverty because they have better access to beef markets, benefiting more from ecotourism, you know, that would be worth all the years of investment. And honestly, I'm just honored to be at Cornell and to be trying to develop this center and make sure that the projects that we invest in really are focused on not nice-to-do academic questions, but on questions that matter to wildlife and wild places. That's really what we're all about, making a difference so that these wild places are there for future generations.

And Cornell and Lisa's generosity have given me a tremendous platform. And I'm just overwhelmed by the great colleagues that the university. We have colleagues there, but now we have partnerships around the world, as I said. So, it's really motivating when everyone's sort of pulling in the same direction and seeing how important this is, again, in that One Health sort of way for biodiversity, for wildlife, but also for the future of humanity. I mean, these things are not separable.

Host: I always talk about Cornell's motto in doing the greatest good. And I think you have a beautiful platform to do this. And again, collaboration and diversity of thought can help potentially answer those questions and hopefully really help populations that are in great need. And so I really appreciate you mentioning that because I think it's so important.

On a lighter note, because I know things, these are heavy topics, but they need to be addressed and they need to be spoken about. So, I'm so thankful we got to talk about some of it here. The listeners as a whole might know that I'm a little bit obsessed with food, so I usually talk about-- as demonstrated by the restaurant question I asked you earlier, in all of your travels-- is there a favorite meal you have? When you go to Botswana, you're like, "I must have this," or you go somewhere and you're like, "This is my 20th trip here and I always get this"?

Steve Osofsky, DVM: I'm going to flip the question because the thing that comes to mind is my least favorite thing.

Host: Oh no.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Because when you're visiting another country, you are a guest. You need to be very culturally mindful. And I was working in Mongolia and one of the Mongolian traditions, if you get welcome to someone's house, is they offer you fermented mare's milk, which I totally appreciated. I was honored to be offered fermented mare's milk, but it's an acquired taste. Let's just leave it at that. That was a tough one.

Host: You know what? That is understandable. And we're not here to insult any type of meal or food, but sometimes we are just used to different tastes having grown up in a certain place and they love it elsewhere. And I've had, you know, similar experiences with certain food. So, I completely understand. And so, kind of as we wrap up, is there something that people don't know about you? Like, how about a hobby? Something that maybe might surprise them. I'm an open book.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: The first time I went to Africa was between college and vet school. And as I went to Kenya in 1984, '85 for a year-long fellowship, which we can talk about in another podcast. But while I was there for a year in Kenya, Tanzania, and Rwanda doing sort of a study, they were making Out of Africa in Kenya.

Host: Oh, the movie?

Steve Osofsky, DVM: The movie. And they put out a call for extras because they needed a bunch of soldiers for a camp scene where Meryl Streep is in this tented camp and they needed more soldiers. And I volunteered and they gave us costumes from that era. And then they said, "We need some soldiers to ride across in front of Meryl Streep on horses. Anybody good at horseback riding?" Now, I wasn't that good at horseback riding, but I thought that sounds really cool. So, I put my hand up for that one too. And I was part of a group about six guys who were supposed to ride, you know, across this setting on these horses. And it was very clear that I was not the horseman I had hoped to be. And this is true, Sidney Pollock, the director who has since passed, but he threw me off the set. So, that's something nobody knows. Maybe I'm on the cutting room floor somewhere, the Out of Africa splicing when it happened, but I didn't make the final cut, so...

Host: Everyone, Out of Africa is like a super famous movie. I know those listening might not have heard it, but very famous and he got tossed off the set. Okay. This was fabulous. I needed that. That was that tidbit we needed. Dr. Osofsky, thank you so much for joining me today.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: Thank you, Michelle.

Host: Thank you for doing what you do. Thank you for doing the greatest good for helping the people and the animals that you help across the world. We very much appreciate it. And I hope someone listening understands that they can be a part of this, small or large, but they can find their path to help with conservation to help do some of the things you do. And some of it are things that I never thought a veterinarian would do, right? Like, we're thinking about fences, we're affecting policy, we're doing really neat things. And I'm just so glad you got to share with our audience. So, thank you so much for joining me.

Steve Osofsky, DVM: No, my pleasure and thank you for the opportunity. It's been great.

Host: Yes, absolutely. Thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the Cornell Veterinary Podcast. Remember, Women's Rugby is happening. Hockey is coming back soon. So if you're a Cornell Hockey fan, we're excited. Listen and subscribe on your favorite platform. And I will talk to you all soon.