Caitlin Whyte (Host): At the end of 2021, RN and Crouse Health employee Caron Grossman experienced a heart attack. She had no symptoms of a stereotypical heart attack, and her only risk factor for heart attack was family history. In fact, just one month prior, she had a completely clear echocardiogram. Her symptoms were subtle, but because she was a nurse, she recognized what was happening and was able to call 911 and get help immediately.

 Welcome to Crouse HealthCast, a podcast brought to you by Crouse Health. I'm Caitlin Whyte.

 Well, Caron, let's dig into some history here to start off your story. Can you tell us about your family's health history with heart issues?

Caron Grossman, RN: Oh, I can. I can. Yeah.  I first became introduced to   heart issues when I was 13 years old.   My mom was 39 and she was, had been going to the doctor,   complaining about a hiatal hernia. They said it was a hiatal hernia. The day before Easter in 1977, she went to bed stating her hiatal hernia was acting up and the next morning she died of a heart attack.

Host: Oh, my goodness.

Caron Grossman, RN: And when they did the autopsy, they had found,   13 infarcts. So it's like she had 13 little heart attacks. So, that's when I first found out that women present different than men in having heart attacks. My father also has a cardiac history as well, although, he lived to 80 and had a very full life.

Host: Well, Caron, thank you so much for telling us a bit about your background. What are some symptoms, then, that are typical of a heart attack, and what did you experience during your episode?

Caron Grossman, RN: So, typically,   you might have, like severe chest pain. Like a tightening of your chest, like an elephant sitting on your chest. You may have pain shooting down your left arm. You may have, shortness of breath.   You may actually like maybe feel an arrhythmia. You might feel a funny feeling in there.

 You might have some jaw pain. You might have some back pain,  but typically from what I've seen,  it's usually, you know, severe chest pain, um, shortness of breath. You get a little sweaty. You get diaphoretic. So you might feel sweaty.  And the pain in the left arm. That's usually what I've seen and what I've heard.

You know, and then you see in movies, you know, where you clutch your chest and you fall to the ground   and that's what I think people have come to know. My experience,   I was just sitting in a chair talking um, to a friend on the phone and we were getting excited talking about some plan we had.

And all of a sudden I had this odd sensation. It started at the base of my chin. And it shot up to my ears. It was like a, an electric current that shot up to my ears symmetrically. And I laughed and I said, Oh my goodness, I'm talking so much. My jaw hurts. And she laughed and then it kind of faded, I mean, I could feel like something had been there, but   the electricity was gone.

And we continued talking and within a minute or so, I had this odd discomfort in my upper back, but I'd say at the base of my neck.  It wasn't even really in my back. It was more the base of my neck. And so we got off the phone and I tried to massage it out because I thought it had to be muscular.

Because what else could it be? And it wasn't.  I, I stretched it. I, I, nothing. I couldn't touch it. And that was it. And so I was kind of like, Hmm, you know, what's going on? And I had had  , an echocardiogram a month before, just based on my family history. I see a cardiologist and it was clean. Like there was like no worries.

  You know, so I'm Googling,   can you have a heart attack after a clean echo? And come to find out you can. So I probably, you know, I sat with it for quite a while and it was a really interesting experience. I became very clear. I am a nurse. I said, Oh, I can do an assessment. And I had no chest pain.

I had no tightness in my chest. I had no pain in my left arm. I thought it was an anxiety attack, maybe. And because sometimes an anxiety attack can present like it's a heart attack and they can get mixed up. And, but I, I wasn't short of breath and I wasn't anxious. I was incredibly calm So eventually, it was about 25, 30 minutes, I,   you know, thought after thought of thinking about my kids, my friends, and like, this, how could this be a heart attack?

I take such good care of myself. Like, I take such good care of myself. I have low cholesterol, low blood pressure. I don't eat meat. I don't eat dairy. I don't drink alcohol. I mean, I don't eat sugar. I don't eat gluten. How could this happen?   It didn't make any sense, and then all of a sudden I had that thought, women present different than men, but they don't say how.

What if this is how? What if it's a simple electric current that goes up the side of your jaw and then fades and this really annoying discomfort in the base of your neck? And then I touched my forehead and I was, I was a little sweaty. And I said, okay. So I called 9-1-1 and I said, I think I'm having a heart attack.

And he said, do you have chest pain? And I said, yes. And he goes, are you short of breath? And I said, yes. He said, do you have pain in your left arm? And I said, yes, because I just couldn't take the chance that they wouldn't take me seriously.   And, you know, I, he said, okay, someone's on the way. And in four minutes they arrived.

Host: Oh my gosh, wow.

Caron Grossman, RN: And I had considered taking an aspirin because I know if you could possibly be having a heart attack, taking an aspirin is good, but I knew I didn't have any. So I kind of erased that idea.

Host: So, without having those big three symptoms, the, you know, shortness of breath, chest pain, the left arm, how did you know it was a heart attack? Was it just that neck pain and the jaw pain you mentioned, or just break that down for us.

Caron Grossman, RN: All I can explain is I knew something was happening. And I didn't have anything in my way to distract me. I didn't have to take kids to school. I didn't have to get to work. I didn't have to be somewhere. I just was present in what was happening. And even though I didn't know what it was, I knew something was. And as each thought and question went through my head, I couldn't rule it out. I couldn't believe it, but I couldn't rule it out. Yeah, I, I, I don't know. I, I'd say intuition, but there was just, I, like I said, I had no distractions keeping me from being present in what my body was going through.

Host: Gosh, that is fascinating. So how long from the time you first experienced those symptoms on the phone with your friend until you got into treatment? I know the call to 9-1-1 and the ambulance came pretty soon after, but you know, how long do you think total from house to hospital?

Caron Grossman, RN:   Well, I, I could tell you, it started about 8:30 in the morning, the first symptom.

Host: Okay.

Caron Grossman, RN: I called around nine o'clock. They got there in four minutes. They immediately started treating.  So I live two miles from the hospital.

Host: Okay.

Caron Grossman, RN: I'm going to Crouse.   I had my ID sitting right there. And it became very clear that what was going on. I could hear them. And when they called in to the hospital to say we were coming, I heard what they were saying about the EKG. So I, as a nurse, I knew what they were saying. And then they said, we're coming in with one of your own. So I got there. So I'll tell you, 8:30 first symptom, I was sitting in the hallway waiting to go to my room, after, the cardiac catheterization, after  going through, well, flying through the emergency room, going to the cardiac catheterization, I ended up getting four stents. I was sitting in the hall waiting to go to my room. It was a quarter after 11.

Host: Wow, what a whirlwind morning.

Caron Grossman, RN: Yeah, it really was. And,   I was making phone calls. I was calling my daughter. I was calling my son, and it was quarter after 11.

Host: Goodness. Well, you mentioned, Caron, that heart attack does present differently in women and often gets misdiagnosed. You mentioned, you know, kind of saying the symptoms that EMTs want to hear just to make sure you got in and got into that ambulance. What is your advice for other women out there who may be experiencing even the easy presentable symptoms or maybe these other not so common symptoms?

Caron Grossman, RN: Well, a lot of times for women, what happens is they're more subtle. They're almost like flu like symptoms, nausea, vomiting. Like, there's an unusual fatigue,   maybe some heartburn. Shortness of breath,   which shortness of breath can go either way, but um just lightheaded, dizzy. You're just off. And unfortunately, women tend to have, like I was saying, take the kids to school, have to get to work, have to do something, and I'll be honest, I didn't want to call 9-1-1. What if I got to the hospital that people know me and I'm having an anxiety attack? There's life happening and this is just going to be. You know, I wouldn't, didn't believe myself. But I think the greatest thing is to pause and listen to your body.

Stop, listen, act, but take that time. If something is off and putting it, I'm a little, God, I'm more tired than I usually am. And I'm really, my stomach's really upset. I don't have the flu, but I feel like I'm like achy and ugh.

Host: Yeah.

Caron Grossman, RN: Take a second. And just listen, and even just knowing that it can be different can be helpful and save you. Because you can pause that second and say, Oh, I heard once women present different than men. Maybe this is it.

Host: Oh, that kind of gave me chills. Thank you so much, Caron, for joining us and for sharing your story and really helping other women just be more in tune with themselves and their bodies.

Caron Grossman, RN: Yeah, I think that's key. Just trust, just trust your instincts. Trust that you know your body better than anybody.

Host: Absolutely. Well, for more information, you can visit us online at crouse.org/heartcare. And if you found this podcast helpful, please do share it on your social media.

This has been Crouse HealthCast. A podcast brought to you by Crouse Health. I'm Caitlin Whyte. Thank you for listening.