Transcription:
From Marketing To CEO: Lessons Learned

Bill Klaproth (Announcer): When you've been searching for the right insight, advice and information on financial marketing, you know where to go, the Speakeasy. The exclusive source for financial marketing insights, with a shot of human, starring Kelly Hellickson and Hillary Reed from EmpowerFi. Strategy infused data-driven marketing solutions for financial institutions nationwide. And on this episode, Kelly Hellickson welcomes Shalonda Dawkins, CEO of Southern Federal Credit Union, as they talk about moving from marketing to CEO. And the lessons learned. Now here's your host Kelly Hellickson.

Kelly Hellickson (Host): Hello, listeners. Listen, I know that I say this, I think I say this every single time, but it's just because I love what I do, and I love my people. And today we have someone on the show, that is near and dear to my heart. We have known each other and worked alongside of each other, been friends for almost 11 years. So I'm super emotional about it. I'm super excited to welcome Ms. Shalonda Dawkins to the show. Shalonda. Thanks for coming on today.

Shalonda Dawkins (Guest): Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on your show today.

Host: Oh, my gosh. Absolutely. I've been trying to have you on the show for a while, but you are lady so.

Sholanda: It's been a really busy year, but you know, busy is good. So we're happy about it.

Host: Absolutely. Absolutely. Girls women like us tend to get into some trouble when we're not busy when we don't have 17 things on our to do, right?

Sholanda: I know. There's always something yet to be done. Like, you know, there's always something that painting or that I want to do, or a project that I want to start that hasn't started yet. So I don't even think there is a downtime anymore.

Host: Nope. And I totally agree. So let's dive in and again, I'm super excited. Thank you so much for joining. And I want to talk about your background. Talk to us about maybe starting with like your first credit union gig and listeners, just so you know, Shalonda Dawkins is fierce. She is female and she is now CEO and it's been a really cool story. So Shalonda talk to us about your story and tell us how you, came into the CU space.

Sholanda: Absolutely. In my opinion, I wasn't the typical person to run a credit union. Like, I didn't even, I wasn't the girl that like was even balancing her checkbook in college. Like I'm not that I was never that financially responsible to even dream of working in financial institutions. And I was in college and of course looking for my first job and wanted to use my degree. So my senior year, I ended up applying with Smart Financial Credit Union and going into working in their marketing department as a business development rep. And that was really my introduction to credit unions. I don't even know that I really knew what credit unions were about, to be honest. I knew that we had an account when we were younger. My mom always had an account and my grandmother at the Teacher's Credit Union, in our hometown, I'm from a small town. And just, that was my only exposure to it. So.

Host: Well mad props to your mom and to grandmoms because that's amazing. And as you know, my mom, I'm a credit union brat. I and listeners, of course, we use that term. That's a term of endearment. Okay. That is actually a term of respect around these parts. So just so y'all know, so mad props to your mom and grandma. And before we go further, so where is home to you? Where was your hometown and where are you now?

Sholanda: I am from a little bitty town called Bay City, Texas. And not many people go there unless you like work in the chemical refineries or you're fisherman, cause we're a fishing town right off the Gulf of Mexico in Texas. And I just moved, it's not far away. I live in Houston, Texas now. So came to the big city as soon as I could.

Host: Okay. But, what was the name of the first CU?

Sholanda: Bay City, Texas.

Host: Bay City, Texas. But what was the first credit union when you were a senior in college?

Sholanda: Oh, our credit union was Matagorda County Teacher's Credit Union.

Host: Ah, okay. Okay. So your mom was a teacher?

Sholanda: She wasn't. I have no idea how they joined the teacher's credit union and listen, that's a whole other story.

Host: That's a whole other Jenny Jones.

Sholanda: I have to ask her that one day, I've never thought to ask you now, how did we become members of a teacher's credit union. but she was a member of Matagorda County Teachers. And at that time, I really want to say that was one of the only credit unions we had in town. Now there's a couple, we even have CEC, you know, Texas Dow credit union in our town. So now there's probably three or four credit union choices that they have in our small town. So that's really amazing.

Host: Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Cool. So your first gig was with, again, tell, tell our listeners.

Sholanda: Smart Financial Credit Union in Houston, Texas. I worked in as a business development rep in their marketing department.

Host: Okay. And then kind of thread us through weave the story from there. You started and then business development, and then it grew, I know you went our first communications and relationships started at United Community Credit Union.

Sholanda: I was at Smart Financial Credit Union and just kind of wanted to grow in my career and graduated college and was just looking for an opportunity, just someone to give me a chance to go out there and prove myself. And so I, received an offer to go and work at United Community Credit Union as their marketing director. And so that's how you and I met because we met working on marketing projects together. And just amazing you know, I worked in marketing for probably, I don't think I remember how long ago that was probably 15 years ago.

So, worked in marketing for this. It grew into marketing and operations and marketing and operations and lending and just, the good thing is that it was a credit union that allowed me to just really plant my roots and learn whatever it was that I wanted to learn. Like there was never a door closed. So, whatever you want it to know at that credit union, they were really open and availed themselves to teaching you whatever it is that you were willing and interested to learn. So, I learned a bunch there. I loved it.

Host: Yeah, And then you ultimately, I mean, you ended up managing the marketing team, you hired a couple of marketers to work alongside and underneath you. Talk about that.

Sholanda: Yeah. I ended up managing the marketing team. And so, one of the things I was always proud of is by the end of my tenure at United Community, we had one of the youngest management teams in the city. So I stayed there, managed the marketing team, so worked with some amazing young folks. I also ended up volunteering and doing a bunch of mentoring to other young executives from other credit unions, and helping them to find their way and to find their path in credit unions.

So, managed their marketing teams for a while and then went on to manage some of the operations and things towards the end there. By the time I left, our credit union CEO at the time was, I believe he was 29 or 30 years old. I believe he was CEO for his 30th birthday. So to a young executive, just trying to find your way. It's very encouraging to be at an organization that believes in young executives so much that they kind of put us in charge. So, shame to say, I think I was the oldest person on the senior management. On the senior managment team.

Host: That's huge though. I mean, cause you said, you know, you just, you started off, just wanted someone to give you a chance. And honestly that speaks volumes to our landscape and to credit unions on a national level. I mean, if you want somebody to give you a chance and none of us listen, we don't wake up and say, I'm going to go market at a credit union one day. It's in your blood. You either, it's in you or it's not.

Sholanda: Right. I mean, you know, my goal was to help other people. That's all I really wanted coming out of college. To me, I always tease and tell people that this is the closest I could get to working for a nonprofit, but, you know, and actually still earn a decent salary.

Host: Yeah. Be able to buy groceries.

Sholanda: Right. Like, I really just wanted to be able to give back help others and give people a help up, especially coming from a small town because you see a lot of poverty and you see a lot of low to moderate income communities. So I really just wanted do something with my life that allowed me to help others. And I honestly applied at a lot of nonprofits. And when I found the credit union, I was like, wow. So I didn't, I wouldn't have thought of it as a not-for-profit. I just wouldn't have knowing that you think of baking and you think that the first thing you think of it's profits and fees and things like that, but right into the credit industry, the goal really is to help our members and to put them in a better financial situation than what you found them.

And that was exciting to me. It was really exciting. And so then a credit union that believed in young executives enough to say, hey, there's a lot of growth out there for credit unions. And there's a lot of opportunities that we're missing out on. We want the next generation to lead and to show us how to capture those opportunities.

They really put their money where their mouth is. They hired a really young CEO, had a really young senior management team and we had an amazing time. We really, really did. I was there for 16 years before I left and I still go back and visit and sit in the CEO's office and you know.

Host: That's amazing. That's a really good story. So, but you did leave. So why did you leave? Where did you end up? Where are you now?

Sholanda: I know. So now I'm CEO at Southern Federal Credit Union, Houston, Texas. And it's amazing. Having an amazing time, just back to the point of my career where I was like, okay, okay, okay. I have a really great fun job and I can honestly say, I love the people I work with, but you also want to challenge yourself sometimes and you know.

Host: There comes that bored factor again. I think women like us are cut from the same cloth. Like I said, we get into some trouble when we are not running on like full cylinders all the time. Maybe even running a little bit behind because we need to catch up with ourselves. Yes. And you know, we've talked about this before. I think it's one of the things that just bonded us. You know what I mean? Like it is it's, I love it. I love the pressure. I love being the yes, girl. I loved being your yes girl at United Community when you needed something. Kelly, I should have started this two weeks ago. Which we do, we put together, we put together a game plan, and then we execute, like, that's the best part. And at the end of the day, it is all for the members, because I remember distinctly how many times you'd call me and say listen, we gotta do this. We gotta put this loan promotion out there.

And I went to bat for these folks and I want a lower rate. So you got a lower rate. And then you said, and you know what? Let's offer an incentive. Maybe we should do a drawing. Maybe we should do a raffle. Maybe we should give away. And that was just the coolest part is because it all for the greater good, it was a collaborative effort for the greater good for the people.

So talk us through a little bit about when you left the United Community, what the asset size was there, number of members and then your segue to Southern Federal.

Sholanda: Yeah, we were actually similar in asset size when I left United Community. I want to say we were around 96 million in assets when I left and we had roughly 12,000 members and then heading over to Southern Federal, we have about 4,100 members and we're right at 90 million in assets as well. So not far from the United Community life, except, You know Southern Federal are a SEG based credit union. And so we have a client, we have one particular client that we work for, that we opened members for their employee. We opened accounts for their employees and their employees, families, whereas United Community was a community credit union. It was open to the public.

Host: Okay. So open charter to closed charter. I mean, that's, that's a little bit of a change.

Sholanda: Open charter to closed charter is definitely a change because you have a very targeted audience that you open memberships for. So your focus is a little bit different, but the point is still the same. You still go in there and you try to help them the best that you can and offer products and services that they really need that kind of meets them where they are.

The difficulty is just making sure that the credit union grows at the same pace as a public credit union would, but I'm really enjoying tailoring products to a different demographic. Honestly, most of our members at Southern Federal it's so neat because they are not in the office. We don't get a lot of foot traffic. We see 10 people in a week. Most of our transactions are done electronically. So what that did is, is shift my focus to electronic banking and making sure that people can do things remotely from home as opposed to coming to the branch, because the employees that we serve are remote.

They're off shore. They're out of state. We didn't expect the systemic, but we were more prepared for it because that's how we serve our members, anyway. We serve our members from a distance anyway. And so that really helped us to weather that, the storm that we're still in, but it really helped us to weather the first couple of years of that.

Host: But it just, it showed us that we can pivot, we can navigate landmines and we can just do the best that we can. And at least come out on the other side together. You know what I mean? I always tell our team, listen, we've been remote since inception. We're all in the same boat so we just can't let each other capsize. And I think that's just the philosophy that I've heard from all of our clients, all of our friends and my colleagues in the, in the space that we are in this together. And it, it does really resonate with our entire landscape philosophy of peoplF helping people. So I'd love to hear, more about some of the struggles at Southern federal during the pandemic, but, you know, moreso how you saw your team, whether it be management or frontline, step up and stand out.

Sholanda: I always tell my team no matter where I'm at, you know, Southern Federal, United Community, my entire career, I've always understood that people's families come first and you can't come to work and serve anyone when you have needs that are unmet at home, or when you have worries and stresses about your family. So, we've been working since the pandemic began and I don't have the problem with that. Now, we're back up. You know, a lot of people have been fully back in their office for months now. Our team is, we're still working in teams. We're still working remotely. They only go into the office two days a week at this point, to get paperwork done and things mailed out. Their families come first, their health and safety come first. And when you treat people with respect, they give you respect in return. And so they work amazingly hard for our members. I feel like they go above and beyond because they appreciate the situation that they have and that no one's rushing them back before they're prepared or before they feel comfortable with it and they have given it their all, they, they really do. We wake up early in the morning. We have a team meeting on Zoom, first thing every morning, to kind of get everybody started. Let's just see a face. Let's make sure we all get out of bed, you know? Cause they're working from home. I've been knocking it out. Like we haven't missed a shot since COVID started.

Host: Good Shalonda. That's so great to hear. And it, I love to key in, on some of those mental health aspects of, you know, being female leader, being a leader at all, and keeping all of your little ducks and your, your kids, like, cause you'd have. I have children at home and I have, I'm mama bear at work too. So I make sure that all of my little chicks and ducks are, hey, how are you doing today? I mean, are you feeling this? Or it sounds like maybe you got something that is you need to settle a score at home. And if that's where your energy needs to be placed today, that's where you need to go because you can't pour from an empty cup. And I know that is something that philosophy wise really kind of resonates with women, but it resonates with all of us, all of our team members. Right. You have to have a full cup in order to be able to pour from it.

Sholanda: I can admit that when I was younger as a manager, I didn't understand. Before I had children, I didn't understand what it meant to be managing a household and coming into work and managing the team. So when people would call in and say like, oh my God, you know, my kid is sick and yada, yada, yada, I really couldn't sympathize as a younger manager because I hadn't experienced that for myself. So I think that as a woman and now, as a mother, to my belt, that really helped me to be a better manager at work, that really helped me to be a better team member and to understand what people need in order to be successful. If you're stressed out because your kid is at home sick, you're really not going to be productive in the office. So if you need that time to take care of it then that time and take care of it. You know, if you're stressed out because you're afraid to come to work because there's a pandemic and you know, everyone in the office is getting sick. You're really not going to be that productive. You're going to focus on that all day. So let's, work in an environment that makes us the most productive and, and that's really the goal for my team. I try to make sure that they have everything they need to be productive. Anything that I can give to help you to be productive, that's what I'm going to do.

Host: That's awesome. So, what does your team, paint a picture your team mosaic at, Southern Federal Credit Union? How many strong and how many, really have just been kind of lighting the fire, the bringing the torch the whole way this last couple years.

Sholanda: Yeah. And we have a really small team at the credit union. There are 10 of us total, eight employees, and then two contract employees that I have, and they have all been just running. The good thing about the team is that they will take care of the members. No one feels like, oh, well that's not my job, that's lending. So, you know, I'm just going to hand it off to lending. Everyone has really picked up the torch and said, taking care of the members is my job, no matter what that means. So, they will make sure that the member gets exactly what it is that they need. It's not about, oh, we don't do it that way. If anything, they're going to tell the member, hold on, let me find a way for us to do that for you. Let me find a way. Let me find a solution for you and help you with whatever your need is.

Host: Good and it is like to paint a picture. I know audience and our listeners, I would say 99% of them are in the financial space. You know, whether they work at a small community bank, or a credit union, it's when you have a human standing in front of you that needs help, whether it be a loan or they lost their debit card, everything's tied to that debit card. You all know that. And it's just like, they're standing in front of you. Anyone and everyone that is a true credit union brat and believer literally looks at that human and says, all right, well, I don't care. I have to stop everything I'm doing. I'm going to help this person. I'm going to help us human, get whatever it is they need because financial security and wellness is everything.

Sholanda: Absolutely. We all know how it feels to be inconvenienced, especially financially, or need something financially and need that help. And you reach out to your financial institution. You want someone that cares enough to stop what they're doing and help you. If I see a call come across, I could be doing anything, you know, especially a debit card call; I know that it's likely someone who's having issues with their debit card. And when they're trying to make a purchase. So then that's going to be a priority. Let me stop and answer the, let me answer that call and help that member let's get them an answer back immediately. And, you know, that's one of the things that credit unions are known for is that personalized service and making sure that we take care of every single member, no one is a number. So our team does a really good job of that. Our members, we, a lot of them, we can't call them because they are offshore or overseas, so we can only receive calls. So we try to make sure that we catch every call that comes through our line. Every call was for a reason they're typically calling internationally.

Host: Yeah. That is very unique. Okay.

Sholanda: Yeah, you don't make international calls for no reason. So we try to make sure that we catch those calls and we help with whatever it is they need immediately, one phone call solutions. We want to, to fix your problem the first go round. And it's really amazing. It's a great environment to be in.

Host: Good. So what, let's segue a little bit to the new year. I mean the new year brings new beginnings. Hope is on the horizon. There's fresh starts for everybody. What are your main focuses for 22?

Sholanda: Our main focus for 2022 is to help encourage our members to get back out there and live life a little bit again. I know things were pretty much at a halt for a while there in 2020 and 2021. So, we're hoping that people get an opportunity now to get back out of the house, do the things that they love, a lot of people were holding out on home purchases and, you know, the automobile industry had a shortage last year. So we're hoping that we see the normalcy again in 2022. It seems as though things are trickling and then, the economy will take kind of a dip back a little bit. So we're just hoping that we could have continued improvement. People are out traveling again and things like that. So, so our hope is that our members really are able to pick back up and get some normalcy to their lives.

Host: Yeah, that's fantastic. So, I know that you've just had a great, amazing career and that you've had support along the way and you know, Shalonda, not all of us have had support along the way. So, I love to, to kind of highlight and talk a little bit about, you know, some of your mentors, but most notably, you know, your board and your leadership at United Community, as well as Southern Federal. I mean, they've got to be some really amazing humans that have just helped you and helped your team every step of the way. Talk a little bit about the, the importance of support from leadership.

Sholanda: It's really important to have support from your board I mean even, you know, from your staff and your employees. I tell my board all the time, I literally have one of the most active boards I have ever seen in credit union land or period, you know, and I've been on over 15 nonprofit boards myself, you know, in my life. This board is extremely active. My board treasurer, reruns financials himself. Like he recalculates our key ratios himself to do his financial report. I've never seen that happen ever in my career before. They're really invested in the credit union and making sure that we do well, and they're really invested in the members and making sure that we're providing them with everything that we need. And I just think that's amazing, but I've always had really great boards in credit union land. This one is just extremely active. They're willing to really get in there and get their hands dirty and they will do whatever it takes to make sure that I have what I need. And that the staff has the resources that they need. They're extremely understanding, you know?

Host: Man, that's that's, everything right there.

Sholanda: Yeah, it really is. It's helped a lot. And to even select a woman leader. You know, I have a board that is, I have a male board, they're all men, but that are open enough to say, hey, we want the best person for the job. And to, to choose a woman leader to run the organization, I think that speaks highly of them.

Host: Just imagine, yourself and your tenured career, imagine not having that support. If you were to be able to give women in your position, you know, previous, past, right now that don't have support; if you were to give them any advice, what do you think it would be if you know, they're not in that situation, that Shalonda Dawkins is in and has all the support in the world, where do you go? What do you do? What sort of, how do you navigate that?

Sholanda: The credit union industry is really unique in that we are all friends really it's, it's an organ, it's an industry of friends. So, you can reach out to any other credit union vendor or partner. You can reach out to any other credit union and people will help you. And I think that's amazing. People will help you. A lot of my biggest advocates in the industry or in the people that I call on the most are actually other CEOs at other credit unions that could easily be considered my competitors but they're friends and they will help me. They will, anything that I need or any question that I have, or something I may not have experienced yet, but they've experienced that they will help me with that.

So I think surrounding yourself with people that can help you, people that have either been in your position before, or done the things that you're setting out to do in your career, will definitely help. Learning to speak the language of your board. If you don't have a board that's truly supportive of you, figuring out where is that disconnect and learn how to speak their language. Learn how to explain things in a way that they can understand so that you can get them on board because that kind of support is truly critical. It's truly important for you to make movement.

Host: Yeah, it's a, that's exactly it. I was just going to say, in order for you as a leader, on any level, I mean, you could be leader of the front line, and to move that needle the way you need to move the needle in today's day and age, to survive the mail sort, so to speak, to, to survive all of, you know, cause it's pretty, it's pretty cut throat in the financial industry and you know, again, we're all in, we're all in competition with one another, but we are, we do have that Rolodex of friends and colleagues to call on and anyone will help. But at the end of the day, you have to figure out how to communicate and then over-communicate. So I think that's fabulous advice.

Sholanda: Yeah. Internal support is critical. You need the support of your staff. You need the support of your board, but that means being able to explain things in a way that you can get them on board and, not shifting the narrative, but learning how to explain things in a way that they can understand it and explaining the things that are most important to them. One of the things that has helped me the most in my career is learning financials. As a marketer coming up, you are, we're creative minds. We know how we need to say things. We know the triggers that emotionally make people move, or, you know, make people want to make a purchase or select us as a credit union. We're not always the experts at the analysis, or the ratios. How's that going to affect our bottom line. How is that gonna affect our key ratios. So, I had to learn to speak that language if I wanted respect in the boardroom and I wanted to respect with the other executives, then I can't just go in there as a marketer. I have to go in there as a member of their team who also knows their area and how to speak their language has really helped tremendously.

Host: Yeah. That's amazing. Well, and I think like you, we were talking about earlier, you said it yourself, you know, it's kind of like if you have time to lean, you have time to clean mentality in credit union land. Because if you want to learn something, how to count down a drawer or how to read a balance sheet, how to navigate an audit, an auditor NCUA coming in. There's nobody that's going to stop you. You just have to kind of be your own advocate and you kind of have to be self-taught along some of these lines. Right?

Sholanda: Absolutely. You have to be willing to get out there and learn. You know, it's not really going to be handed to you. It's something that you're going to have to get out there and say, hey, you know what, I really want to learn accounting, so I'm going to ask the questions that I need to ask to make sure that I understand it, or I'm going to volunteer to help them out. You know, when they are swamped with something to make sure that I understand that concept and how that works and you know, why do we do things the way that we do things? And when people see you putting forth that energy and the effort, they will reach a hand out and help you to learn the things that you're looking to learn.

Host: And it's inspiring too, though, for your team, right? For other, you know, up and comers that, again, we didn't wake up, none of us, I can't remember anyone that said, I went to college to be a credit union marketer. Like you, that just doesn't happen. So, you know, and it's kind of cool though. I don't know any other landscape that you could be entry-level marketing specialist and one day, literally lead that team, lead that entire organization as CEO. Like that's, that's a beautiful thing. That is something that I don't think any other space has. And I'm, I'm super proud of that.

Sholanda: Thank you. Yeah, and it took for me to see another marketer do it actually, cause I would've never thought that could be the path. Actually a good friend of mine, Andy Reed was working at American Airlines Credit Union some years ago. As I believe he was like business development, vice president, and then he ended up becoming CEO of a credit union in Dallas. And I was like, wait a minute. But he was the marketing guy, like how does that happen? And I started reaching out to him and asking like, Oh, my God, what did you do? How does it feel to go from marketing to the CEO space? And he would answer me, he would talk to me. He took the time and invested in me and said, hey, you can do it. If I can do this, you can do it.

When I meet other younger executives, I'm like, listen, I was a marketing girl straight out of college and I was in marketing forever. If I can do this, you can do this. Most of this stuff is going to be either concepts you've already learned working in a credit union. So reach out and ask the questions that you need to ask now and build that confidence so that you can take the leadership role that you really want to have. But yeah, I, it took for me to see another leader come out of the marketing end and be promoted to CEO for me to even know that that was a possibility.

Host: Oh man, Andy Reed. We got to give him a shout out because he is not only one of just the best and brightest that our industry has ever seen, but I have so many stories. I, Andy Reed is a legend and first of all, he and Hillary Reed, my CEO are conference husband and wife, right. Hillary Reed Andy Reed. So they've known each other for forever.

You and I have known each other for forever. And I remember you talking about Andy Reed and I was like, I have heard so much about him. Like, he's kind of an enigma. Like I've never met him. I'm kind of nervous. So there was one CUNA I think it was CUNA 2015 and it had to have been in San Antonio, I think, on the Riverwalk. And we finally met up and he was like, I heard that you were just intimidated. You just didn't want to come up say was like I say hi to everybody Kelly. And from then on, I literally, literally just absolutely started such a great friendship with that guy. And he's the best. So, yes, let's give a shout out please, to Sir Andy Reed.

Sholanda: Credit unions invest in their people and the people in the credit union industry invest in each other. Like we really do help each other out. It, you, we get calls all the time from people saying, hey, you know, I have an employee that's looking to move up and we don't have anything from here, but do you have something for them over there? We're really trying to help them get into it a. Veep, like they want. It's a friendly industry and it shows in how we treat our members. So.

Host: It is. And it does. And so, I mean, that's just, that's, that's a fantastic way to kind of leave our listeners with wanting a little bit more because I have a couple cool things that we can talk about, but I want to tease these folks a little bit. I know you're busy, but you're going to have to come back on in January or February. Cause I want to talk a little bit more on a personal level. I know you got some really cool things, cooking up. You have your own podcast. I'd love to talk with you more and see how that's going in the new year. So let's, let's just end on a really great note. And I just want to thank you again. It's been so great to even just hear your voice and we gotta, we gotta do this again soon, Shalonda.

Sholanda: Thank you for having me.

Bill Klaproth (Announcer): And thank you for joining us and to connect with Hillary or Kelly to simplify your credit union marketing needs with EmpowerFi's full service marketing, and design support, please visit and empowerfi.org. You can also email us info@empowerfi.org for more information. And if you found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and be sure to check out the full podcast library for topics of interest to you. This is the Speakeasy financial marketing podcast. Thanks for listening.