Melanie Cole, MS (Host): Welcome to FirstHealth and Wellness Podcast from the specialists at FirstHealth of the Carolinas, committed to providing exceptional care to people throughout the Sandhills and to connect you to the people and services who can make your life healthier.

Today, we're talking about managing grief. I'm Melanie Cole. And joining me today is Dr. Meredith Stanton. She's a psychiatrist with FirstHealth Behavioral Services. Dr. Stanton, thank you so much for joining us today. As we get into this topic, which is not always easy for people to discuss. Everybody handles their grief differently, right? We know that. So, when you think about grief broadly, what are some of the first things that come to mind in how the culture today perceives grief?

Meredith Stanton, MD: Well, it is a pleasure to be here, and I am so grateful that you all are willing to talk about a very tough subject. Culturally, I think that there's this expectation that grief is neat and simple and resolved in a certain timeframe, which is absolutely not true. Grief has its own timeline, and everybody grieves in different ways. So, part of my job is to help normalize some of the expectations that we have for ourselves with grief, but also how we can help others who are in the grieving process after you've lost a loved one.

Melanie Cole, MS: That's very important what you just said about helping others go through this as well. And however we internalize our own grief, we also have to realize that other people are grieving as well, maybe for the same person, and we all go through it differently. So, why is it so important, Dr. Stanton, that we understand that grief does look different for everybody?

Meredith Stanton, MD: I think it's important because it helps us to not be alone or to not isolate in our grief. I think that there's this discomfort that we have when we are witnessing other people's grief and pain and cannot fix it. And it's also this situation where we just need to simply be with them and allow them through that grief and knowing that it is a healing process that takes lots of time. Some days are easier, some days are very difficult. And I think just giving yourself grace, but also having compassion and kindness towards the person who is grieving.

The other thing that's fairly tough is that we might feel stuck in our grief while the world is moving on around us. And sometimes we get that initial compassion within the first month. But that's not the hardest time. The hardest time is three, six, 12 months down the road, sometimes decades later.

Melanie Cole, MS: Well, that's certainly true. And the person that is grieving usually has so many people around them at that beginning time, and then a few months down the line is when sometimes that can really sink in. And in your role, how do you help people to understand that there really is no right way to grieve or no length of time that you're allowed to grieve?

Meredith Stanton, MD: Absolutely. I think the thing that I appreciate the most about grief is that it is universal. We will all experience grief at some point in our life. But grief is not uniform. There's no right way, there's no wrong way. There's ways that are more helpful when it comes to healing and ways that are less helpful when it comes to healing with grief.

And I think recognizing when our grief is unresolved or problematic or absolutely interfering with our lives, because it is disruptive, it's messy, it's chaotic, it's raw. But allowing yourself through that process is important. Grief cannot be avoided. You cannot go over it. You cannot go under it. You cannot go around it. You must move through it in order to heal.

Melanie Cole, MS: That's true. And sometimes moving through it is the most painful part. And for family and friends, Dr. Stanton, how can they help support someone going through some intense grief, and especially for friends and family that don't really understand the grief that they're going through?

Meredith Stanton, MD: One thing is that sometimes people are so afraid that they'll say the wrong thing or they'll say too much that they say nothing or they pull away. And this is those moments where sometimes just simply being present when somebody is sad or when somebody is struggling and being okay witnessing their pain without trying to fix it, but just letting them know that they're not alone.

As I had struggled and still struggle with my own grief at times, my mother passed away 10 years ago, and one of the things that I was so grateful for was that my sister and I were grieving at the same time but in different ways. And I was so grateful when I was having a rough day because somebody reminded me of our mother, and I would just send her a message and text and she'd be like, "No problem. Give me five minutes. I'll call you back." And I was so unbelievably lucky to build that connection, because sometimes in grief we lose the connection to the deceased person and then we feel like we lose connection to life in general. And so, the simple thing is that maybe you just let them know that you're still there, that you say, "Hey, I haven't forgotten that you are still in pain and let me just come over. Let's just sit down and watch a movie. Let's go for a walk. Let's have a meal." And you can let them cry and just let them cry. But then, say, "Okay, what else are we going to do during this healing process?"

Melanie Cole, MS: Well, that's certainly true. It does look different for everyone, and I'm sorry about your mother. Having lost my own mother some 25 years ago, and I have a lot of brothers and sisters, I know what you're saying about how each person processes it just a little bit differently.

Now, as the years go on, grief can resurface from a smell, from a look, from an experience in so many different ways, right?

Meredith Stanton, MD: Absolutely.

Melanie Cole, MS: So, what are some signs that that grief? And I'm not talking about just remembering the person because that can happen as well, but signs that the grief is actually resurfacing rather than simply kind of lingering or getting just a little bit duller instead of that sharp ache.

Meredith Stanton, MD: You're absolutely correct that, you know, you have that initial acute grief that is just so disruptive. I mean, I remember feeling like my heart was ripping in two, you know? And I was like, "Oh. This is what this feels like." And as time goes on, that sharp heaviness, that pain lightens over time because our grief can evolve as our healing process, we go through it.

So, you're right. Some things that might cause huge amounts of grief, like the smell of Thanksgiving cooking, right, or holidays. We know that sometimes people have a harder time with their grief on anniversaries, milestones, birthdays, or significant events, or unrecognized reminders or unanticipated reminders.

And the people who struggle the most are the ones who avoid allowing themselves to feel the pain, or they have unresolved anger or guilt, or they're blaming themselves, or they're isolating and pushing everybody away, or they avoid any type of reminder about the person, the deceased person that they have lost.

We know that it can surface decades, you know, down the road. I am, I'm lucky enough to be able to take care of a large population here in the Sandhills, including people who are older, who talk to me about the grief that they experienced as a child, and they're in their 80s. It sticks with you. But sometimes it's not as heavy. And the grief is always there, but it doesn't have to be a burden. It can be part of the love and the growth that you have in your life.

Melanie Cole, MS: That's very true. I love the way that you said that. Now, one of the things that I have learned in my many years, Dr. Stanton, is that when I see someone grieving or even myself when I'm grieving about something, and then something gives me joy, something makes me happy, I look at my son who was born on my mother's birthday. And I smile, and it's really sweet and then we feel that guilt. Not the guilt of maybe we weren't as close to the person or we didn't get to say goodbye, but the guilt of feeling happy in this time of grieving. So, how do we give ourselves that permission to find the little joys wherever we can? Because that's so important for our mental health as we navigate that grief.

Meredith Stanton, MD: One-hundred percent. I absolutely believe in the bittersweet, right? That you can feel two things at once, and they're both equally true and both equally important. So, you can laugh because something reminds you of your mom or your brother or your sister and, at the same time, be sad because they're not here and they're missing.

And feeling moments of joy does is not a betrayal to your grief. It doesn't mean you're not honoring them or you are neglecting them. It just means that your grief is growing and changing. And I tell people, you know, your grief is as big as the love, but also the love can help us keep living. So, you can stay connected to that person by remembering them and what their favorite things were, like humor or food or TV shows or traditions, that's how you carry them forward and they're never gone too far from you.

Melanie Cole, MS: I think that movie Ghost really says it well, you know, at the end, and he says, "The love, you take that with you." And that is really what stays with you when you think of that person. I could get choked up talking about this. Now, when we think of the difficult days, like you said, the holidays, the anniversaries, give us some of your best advice as a psychiatrist that does this every day on dealing with that grief during those difficult days.

Meredith Stanton, MD: I think it's a tough balance between allowing yourself to feel what's there inside of you, but also engaging in the world around you. So if you need to pause and cry, let yourself cry. If you need to have a moment where you go for a walk and be with nature, or you need to just be sad, allow that sadness with the balance of saying, "Okay, I'm going to be sad, but I'm also going to do things." And those tough days are when sometimes you just go back to the basics. Get up, take a shower, get dressed, eat, move your body.

So, the real things that I, you know, strive to help people pick up is being in nature, movement, and then also connection to others. Sometimes in our grief, we feel so alone, and grief is not meant to be alone.

And I think that sometimes when we connect to people, and you don't have to tell them that you're having a rough day. You don't have to disclose that your heart is ripping in half again. You just say, "Hey, I'm having a tough day. What are you doing?" Or you can check in and be like, "Hey, I was watching some Netflix or a TV show, and I was thinking about you." Reaching out to others is important.

Melanie Cole, MS: That's great advice. When we think of all the advice you've just given us, and you've given us so much to think about today, there comes a point when maybe we're not dealing with the grief in the healthiest ways. When do we know, Dr. Stanton, that it really is time to seek professional support?

Meredith Stanton, MD: When to seek professional support is definitely when the grief is so disruptive that it is interfering with your work, attending schools, your relationship with others, leaving the house. If it is interfering and is so disruptive that you're not able to maintain the responsibilities and the tasks that you have in everyday life is when you should absolutely get some help with grief.

But also, recognizing that you don't have to grieve alone. There are wonderful grief counselors and therapists in our community and throughout the United States that are so great with helping you to understand and work through the grief process

Melanie Cole, MS: That's true. You know, the help is out there, and people don't have to suffer or grieve alone. And I can hear the passion in your voice and the compassion, Dr. Stanton, for what you do for your patients, and I'm sure they realize that as well.

As a final thought, what is one message that you would like to leave listeners with about managing their grief, and what would you like the key takeaways from this conversation to be?

Meredith Stanton, MD: So, we all grieve differently and in different time, in different timelines as well. But grief is a process of healing, and you must allow yourself to heal. And that means that sometimes it is painful and sometimes it is confusing. But also, you do not have to be alone with your grief. Seeking help does not mean that you're grieving wrong or incorrectly or that you're weak. It just means that you need another person to help you along this journey.

Melanie Cole, MS: Thank you so much, Dr. Stanton, for joining us and really giving us great information on, as we said before, a topic that is sometimes difficult to broach or to talk about, and especially with a loved one. So, thank you for all the great information that you gave us today. And for more information or to learn more about this and other healthcare topics, please visit our website at firsthealth.org/behavioral.

I'm Melanie Cole. And that concludes today's episode of FirstHealth and Wellness Podcast from the specialists at FirstHealth of the Carolinas. We'd like to invite our audience to download, subscribe, rate, and review FirstHealth and Wellness Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart, and Pandora. Thanks so much for joining us today.