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Scott Webb (Host): Our immune systems are complex, but there are things we can do and eat to help boost our immune systems to better fight off illnesses and just generally feel better. And joining me today to help us know what we should eat and what things we should avoid and more as Dr. Victoria Othersen, she's a Board Certified Family Physician with additional training in plant-based nutrition with the Franciscan Physician Network.

This is the Franciscan Health Doc Pod. I'm Scott Webb. So, Doctor it's so great to have you on. This is a time of year as we head into winter when even with our masks and all the other things that we're doing, because of COVID, where people start to maybe feel sick and feel like they want to boost their immune system. So it's a great time to have you on. And as we get rolling here, just a little baseline question, give everybody an overview of how our immune systems work.

Victoria Othersen, DO (Guest): Your immune system is your body's way of fighting disease. It can include organs, cells, protein and chemicals in your body that fight infection. Those would be your white blood cells, your antibodies, some of your organs, like your spleen and your thymus, and then your bone marrow, all are part of your immune system. As well as your skin and your gut. And we can talk more about that later. There's kind of three ways that your immune system in general works. You're born with kind of an innate immune system, which is like your skin, the mucus in your nose and your gut and your stomach acid are all things you're born with that help to fight off bacteria and viruses.

There's passive immunity, that's kind of borrowed and you get that from your mom through breast milk and through the placenta. And then there's adaptive immunity. Those are things you develop when you're exposed to microbes, chemicals, vaccines, again, the adaptive immunity changes and grows as you age.

Host: That's perfect. And a great way to jump off here. And I guess I'm wondering upfront, you know, are there certain things or demographics that may be just suffer more frequently from compromised immune systems?

Um

Dr. Othersen: There's three groups that we worry about with immunity, older age, our immunity weakens, as we get older, it becomes imbalanced, both the innate and the adaptive kind of wane as we get older. And that generally starts to happen around 60. It could be a little bit earlier, or a little bit later. So your older age population. And at the opposite end of the spectrum, newborns, they don't have a fully mature immune system till age two to three months. That's why we ask you to keep your babies away from crowds until they're at least two to three months old. They get some antibodies from their mom and breastfeeding also helps with that.

And then people with compromised immune systems, cancer patients, long-term steroid users, people that have things like rheumatoid arthritis and are on medicines called biologic agents. Pregnancy makes you have a compromised immune system. People with maybe HIV, diabetes, and heart disease are also having a compromised immune system.

Host: Sure. And for folks who are either in one of those three compromised groups or just folks in general, I think we all want to know cause think we probably heard that we are what we eat maybe, and that we believe at least and hope that it's true. That what we eat can help us to boost our immune system. So maybe you can go through if that's true. What are some of the foods that we should try to concentrate on to try to boost our immune systems?

Dr. Othersen: So I love this question because I'm a vegan in my part-time life and we're also vegan at home. So the things that you can add to your diet that would boost your immune system easiest is fruits and vegetables. And you're exactly what your mom said. You are, what you eat. So citrus fruit, green vegetables, cruciferous vegetables, like broccoli, peppers, garlic, lean proteins, beans, nuts, seeds, tofu, lean meats and fish, certain dairy products like yogurt with probiotics also help, tumeric has been shown to help immunity. And then green tea are some easy things you could add to your diet. And what I tell my patients is it's not all or nothing.

You don't have to be perfect. Just trying to add more of these things to each meal is a great way to boost your immune system.

Host: That sounds so right. And you know, over the holidays, some of us like pumpkin pie and apple pie. And, you know, we can sort of fall off the wagon if you will, a little bit, but we can always get right back on that next meal, you know, and I always feel like we should all just forgive ourselves a little bit for our transgressions, if you will.

But we can always get right back to it. We can always get back to eating those better foods, the fruits and vegetables and the things that aren't processed at the store. I told once by one of our guests to stay around the outside of the grocery store, all the things on the aisles on the inside are generally the processed things that we want to stay away from. And all the good stuff is kind of around the outside. Has that been your experience?

Dr. Othersen: It's very much my experience. I kind of say a similar thing to my patients. If you know, you're having Thanksgiving, Christmas dinner or going to a party and you know, I want to have that pie or that appetizer. Try and eat really well the rest of the day, to have a healthy breakfast. I'm going to have a very healthy lunch and then go ahead and splurge. It's one time a year. Enjoy it. Just try to be healthy the rest of the time. I don't expect anyone to give up pumpkin pie. I love my pumpkin pie.

Host: Exactly right. One piece, you know, one piece is good. It's just that it's not having that second piece. You know, if you're at family long enough, you have that first piece and then you're there for a few more hours and you think well, maybe one more piece. And I always think, you know, just, just, you know, if you're going to have that second piece, then tomorrow let's get back on.

Let's get back with the program. Let's get back to eating healthy. And I mentioned before we got rolling that I felt like I was getting just a little bit of a cold yesterday. So I loaded up on vitamin C and I wondered aloud to you. If that's something we should do. So great to have you on and ask you, should we load up on those extra nutrients, like vitamin C or zinc or other things if we feel like a cold is coming on?

Dr. Othersen: So first before I would say a disclaimer, before you take any vitamins in high doses, I'd have you talk to your own personal provider, physician. I find it's much safer to get vitamins from the food we eat, not supplements. In general, I don't recommend vitamins to my patients except if you have a specific deficiency, certain eye diseases. If you take too much zinc, it can actually inhibit your immune function and too much vitamin C if you megadose can give you nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, heartburn, insomnia, and headache. So certainly a little is okay. A lot, definitely talk to your physician and make sure that things are appropriate for you.

Host: Are the things that we eat, even if it was pumpkin pie, we're still going to eat that we've established that right doctor, but

Dr. Othersen: Of course I'm eating it.

Host: Exactly right, but are there some things that we eat that kind of work against us, work are against our immune systems?

Dr. Othersen: There's a lot of things that work against our immune systems, especially with the amount of fast food and processed food we eat. So the salty foods, fried foods and processed foods, so McDonald's and frozen dinners. They actually suppress the anti-inflammatory processes in the body. So they actually promote inflammation, especially in the gut. The stomach is a huge part of our immunity and our good gut bacteria help to protect us. When you eat all those processed foods, it actually kills all the good bacteria and some of the bad bacteria starts to grow. So things like processed meat, charred meats, fast food, my son's favorite ding-dongs and hohos, they may taste good, but they're probably really not good for your immune system.

They just harm the gut lining and that really is your first kind of way to stop the bacteria. So again, none of these things are bad if you have them in moderation, but if you're eating them on a daily basis, it's probably not really good for your immunity.

Host: Yeah, that's such a key word there, moderation and that's I think we are all fighting for is when we're off the wagon a little bit and we're, you know, indulging ourselves. And maybe a lot of us have been doing that during COVID, you know, it's important that we just try to do things in moderation. And is it possible to eat too much of something that is, you know, billed as an immune booster, or we think is an immune booster that actually is working against us, actually has sort of an adverse effect.

Dr. Othersen: So kind of the easiest one is kind of, we talked about before the vitamins, mega dosing and vitamins and certain vitamins can actually be toxic. So again, before any vitamins, you definitely want to talk to your provider. Not a funny one, but this happened to me too many orange vegetables, like butternut squash, carrots can actually make your skin turn orange, which happened to me during residency.

So you look a little bit tan, which is not terrible, but still orange and if you start to increase your fiber or vegetables or beans too frequently, we all get a little bit of gas. So again, if we're making changes in our diet, I always say small steps, big rewards, go small work, these things slowly into your diet. So it's not such a big change to your body.

Host: Yeah. I made a broccoli casserole for Thanksgiving and I felt sorry for the folks around me. And as you say, there are just certain foods that have an adverse effect and I apologize, but everybody loves the broccoli casserole, Doc, what am I going to do? Right. I have to, they demanded Doctor. This has been so educational and fun as we wrap up here, what are your takeaways for folks as we head cold and flu season besides probably get your flu shots, get your COVID shots and all of that. What are your takeaways? When it comes to, you know, foods, things we should eat things we should avoid, ways to stay healthy and boost our immune systems?

Dr. Othersen: So um, I have six things that I try to do every day that I'm trying to build my immune system. I have a husband that's recovering from cancer. So it's pretty important in my family that we all stay well. As much water as you can drink within reason, again, don't go crazy. We all tend to not drink enough water. Try to eat multiple servings of a variety of fruits and vegetables every day. High fiber foods. Beans. Things like that are very good for immunity, lean protein, whatever your choice of lean protein is chicken, fish, beans, tofu, or nuts and seeds, probiotic foods like kefir and yogurt also help the gut health. And then I personally like to add green tea every day. So those are six easy things you can slowly add in that are inexpensive and will help your immune system.

Host: That's perfect. My wife loves green tea loves the matcha tea. Of course she gets the Starbucks version often, you know, that has all the things probably that aren't good for us, but it always smells so good. And I always think, you know, if I wasn't a coffee drinker, I'd be drinking green tea. So, Doctor, this has been great, really educational, fun, and we're all just trying to stay healthy, eat the right things, do the right things. And you've definitely helped us do that today. So thanks so much and you stay well.

Dr. Othersen: All right. You stay well too. Thank you.

Host: And to schedule an appointment with a nutrition counselor, go to Franciscanhealth.org and search nutritional counselors. And to learn more about boosting your immune system, go to Franciscanhealth.org and search immunity boost.

And if you found this podcast to be helpful, please share it on your social channels and be sure to check out the full podcast library for additional topics of interest. This is the Franciscan Health Doc Pod. I'm Scott Webb. Stay well, and we'll talk again next time.