Scott Webb (Host): Being a dad is the best job I've ever had, and I'm sure many dads in the audience would agree, but it can be a little scary for first-time dads mentally, physically, and otherwise. I'm pleased to welcome Jason Hojnacki to the podcast today. He's an Employee Assistance Program therapist at Franciscan Health, and he's here to help prepare first-time dads for fatherhood. 

This is the Franciscan Health Doc Pod. I'm Scott Webb. Jason, it's great to have you here today. I was mentioning to you that I've had two kids. And so, I've prepared for fatherhood. So, we're going to talk through that and how to support a partner through postpartum depression. So, a bunch of things to talk about today. And I think maybe the best place to start is just, you know, like what are some of the common challenges that new fathers face during that transition to parenthood.

Jason Hojnacki: Some of it is just an automatic, weird pressure and kind of an adjustment to, "Wow, it's not just about me anymore. It's not just about my wife or my girlfriend anymore." Now, it's about this other new person here. And my goodness, what do I do with this new person? I hope I'm a good dad. I hope I'm a good provider. I think it changes your whole perspective because now it's not just about you anymore. It's about you and this other new person.

Host: Yeah, that's definitely what I experienced. You know, I had been, you know, a person of my own for so long, and then was married. And then it was like preparing for fatherhood was just, "Am I up to this? Am I up to the challenges? Will I be a good dad?" You know, all those things.

Jason Hojnacki: Absolutely.

Host: Yeah. And it just makes me wonder how we can best prepare ourselves, you know, emotionally, mentally for that challenge of being a great father.

Jason Hojnacki: You got a couple different options. I would say, number one, if at all possible, you have a really good relationship with your partner, your wife, your significant other. The two of you kind of talk together about, "Hey, here's some concerns I have," "Hey, do you think I'm going to be a good father?" "Hey, you know, what do you think about all this?"

Another thing sometimes is if you have a role model in your life, whether it be your own father or a minister or a coach or even a really good neighbor, that it's okay to kind of talk to them and say, "Hey, okay, how did you prepare to be a dad? I'm going to be a dad. Any words of wisdom, any kind of guidance for me?" "Hey, you know, what do you think?" And so, I think those kind of things help.

The other thing that I did that I certainly recommend to other impending fathers is I attended a birthing class with my fiancée. And they kind of went over some very basic stuff in there too about, "Okay, this is what labor will be like," or, "Oh, is what it'll be like when you first get home." And so, that was very helpful and very informational.

Host: Yeah. Yeah. I thought I was prepared. I did something similar. And then, my wife ended up having a C-section, and nothing quite prepares you for that.

Jason Hojnacki: Whoo!

Host: Yeah, there was no classes for that. And, yeah, that was an interesting experience. But you're right, there's a lot of things we can do and, you know, leaning on people we know, respect, love, neighbors, friends, you know, parents of our own, all that good stuff. How do we balance, and maybe what are some effective ways to do that? Being a father, but also balancing, you know, work and family after the baby comes.

Jason Hojnacki: One of the things that I recommend, if at all possible, is that you actually take some time off of work. You know, some people have PTO, some people have the Family Medical Leave Act, some people actually have paternity leave. And if at all possible, take the time off of work. That way, you can spend the time with your new child and with your wife and, you know, just really enjoy that time together of being a new family or an expanded family.

Host: Yeah. And it does seem, you know, this is from a lay person's perspective, of course, but it does seem that unlike maybe the old days, I'm 56, I definitely lived through the old days and it does seem to me like more and more fathers, more and more new fathers are able to take that time off. That maybe wasn't the case 20, 30, 40 years ago, you know? Is that your sense of things that it's more acceptable now legally and otherwise, you know, for fathers to take some time off too?

Jason Hojnacki: Definitely, definitely. I think society has, you know, It's changed a little bit and evolved a little bit that, you know, "Hey, yes, it's perfectly okay. We want you both to be home. The child needs both of you." And I do think there's been a cultural shift to where more companies and more workplaces are saying, "Sure, take the time off. Go. Congratulations, dad. Congratulations." So yeah, I think we have seen that shift.

Host: Yeah. It's good stuff. So, how do we support our partners both during pregnancy and during that postpartum period?

Jason Hojnacki: If at all possible, communication, communication, communication, dialogue. An ongoing conversation about, "Okay, how do you feel? Do you need anything? Is everything okay? Do you need me to do anything?" Just having that ongoing conversation and hopefully having that openness. I know when my fiancé was having some morning sickness and things like that, I always offered, "Hey, do you need me to stop and get some ginger ale for you on the way home?" "Are you having any weird cravings? I'll stop and get you chocolate. Whatever you need, I will do it." And I made it clear that I would do that for her.

Host: Yeah. That was my experience. And my wife had some unusual food and drink requests. And I said, "Anything you need, dear. Let me head out to the store and get those things for you." And yeah, I'm sure Jason, you know, we've talked through like the kind of folks we can lean on as we prepare for fatherhood, but what are some of resources or support systems you recommend that are available, especially for those fathers-to-be or new fathers who are really struggling with mental health?

Jason Hojnacki: There are a couple different options. Number one is, there's always the EAP, where I'm from. We've actually have many male employees, obviously, at Franciscan. They're welcome to come see me. And we can certainly talk about, "Hey, what's going on? How you feeling? How's your spouse?" You can always check in with your doctor, just to make sure that everything physically is okay. And if physically something is off, the doctor could certainly help you with that or the doctor could point you in the right direction.

I think another option is a lot of churches actually have men's groups, father's groups, and so I think that could be another option as well.

Host: Yeah. I want to shift a little bit here and talk and focus more on postpartum depression and supporting a partner who may be experiencing that, whether it's, you know, baby blues or even, you know, more severe. What are some signs and symptoms of postpartum depression that we can be on the lookout for?

Jason Hojnacki: I think one of the biggest things that I look for to keep in mind is just like a personality change. Like, you look at your partner, you look at your spouse and go, "Okay, something's not quite right here. Usually, she's jumping right up to play with the baby, but instead she's staying in bed a little bit." Normally, she's excited to watch her favorite show. And suddenly, she's not doing that as much. So, I think kind of a personality change is a big thing to watch out for.

Besides that, I think the most obvious one is the crying and the tearfulness. That if your partner's never really a crier, and then all of a sudden there's a lot of tears, and a lot of sadness, and just something seems off, I think it's certainly okay to ask and say, "Hey, what's going on here?"

Host: Yeah. And along those lines, I wanted to get some-- you know, tap into your expertise here. You know, how do we approach that, you know, the subject of mental health in general with our partners without causing, you know, perhaps additional stress?

Jason Hojnacki: One, it goes back to what I said earlier about just the ongoing dialogue, the ongoing conversation. Hopefully, the two of you, if you have a good relationship and you have good communications, your wife or partner would say to you, "Hey, I'm not doing so good here. I think maybe something needs to change."

On the other hand, if it's the husband or the dad who notices it and says, you know, "Hmm, something's not quite right here, you could gently say, "Are you okay? How you doing today? Are you feeling okay? How's the baby?" And just very gentle questions, not an interrogation, but just gentle questions of, "How are you doing? Are you okay?" And then, if it goes into more of a concern or something's not right, I also think it's okay to say, "Hey, when is your follow up with the doctor? When are you going to go see him next? Hey, maybe I can come with if you need the extra support."

Host: Yeah, right. I see what you mean. Like, just kind of subtle and gentle. And I'm assuming, Jason, there's maybe some steps that we can take that you recommend, you know, while we're trying to support our partners who are experiencing postpartum depression. Like, take us through that a little bit.

Jason Hojnacki: A lot of times, number one, I said I'm going to sound like a broken record, communication. "Honey, are you okay? Is everything okay?" Two is if they've been diagnosed with postpartum depression, or they seem to be struggling a little bit, I turn it into, "Hey, what can I do to help? What do you need from me? Do you need me to give you a hug? Do you need me to spend time with the baby while you go take a walk? Do you need to go visit your mom while I take the baby? Or do you want to go visit your mom with the baby and leave me out of it because you're tired of looking at me," you know? That stuff happens too.

Host: Yeah. On occasion, we may be the problem, right?

Jason Hojnacki: Yeah, sometimes, sometimes. I also think, if they see the doctor and the doctor recommends medication, like an antidepressant, I think it's okay to kind of touch base and say, "Honey, okay, have you picked up your medication from the pharmacy? Are you feeling any different? Do you need me to pick it up? How are you feeling?"

Host: Yeah. I see what you mean. You just sort of like, "Hey, I happen to be headed to the pharmacy. Did you need me to pick up anything for you?"

Jason Hojnacki: Right, right, exactly.

Host: Yeah, and it does sound, Jason, and it was definitely my experience that it was important to be a part of all of this, new fathers-to-be a part of this with their partner's treatment plan for postpartum depression, that yes, of course we can take care of the baby more, sure, do the best we can. It was definitely more challenging with my first one than the second one. But just in general, it sounds like you recommend that we are really involved.

Jason Hojnacki: Absolutely. Absolutely. A child has two parents. So if at all possible, both parents should be heavily involved and kind of function as a family unit and say, "Hey, okay, do you need a break?" Or take a step back and say, "Oh, maybe I need a break," and just trying to be on the same page and make sure that, "Hey, we're both in this together. We're all a little family. We're all a little unit. It's okay. We'll help each other out."

Host: Yeah. And there were definitely times, you know, my wife would say, "Hey, your baby's crying." I say, "Wait, my baby?" "Yeah. She's your baby today at 3:00 a.m. Go spend some time, some quality time with your baby." It's been good to just sort of reminisce a little bit and talk through some of this and, you know, help listeners to prepare for being new fathers and how to support their partners, all good stuff. Just wondering what advice you have for those fathers, those dads who are feeling overwhelmed themselves or a little helpless while they're trying to support a partner with postpartum.

Jason Hojnacki: Well, a couple things. I would say that it's okay to feel overwhelmed. It's okay to go, "Man, my life is totally different. Our life is totally different. Wow." This is wow." It is okay to feel that. That part of that is very normal. The other thing to keep in mind is that, "Hey, people have been having children for thousands of years here. Lots of people go through this. It's all going to be okay."

Host: Yeah.

Jason Hojnacki: I'd also say, in terms of the child getting older, that a lot of that gets easier as well, too. Eventually, they're able to actually tell you what they want. You know, hungry, thirsty, and I think that makes it easier, too. So, I think it's okay to keep in mind that, "Hey, this is going to get easier." This is part of the process, this is hard, but this is actually going to get easier.

Host: Yeah. It definitely gets easier. And then, eventually, they become teenagers and that's a whole other thing. You know, is my 16-year-old really driving on the highway right now? And I can't see them and I can't help them. That's a separate podcast, but really good stuff today. Helpful information today, Jason. Thank you so much.

Jason Hojnacki: Oh, you're very welcome.

Host: And to learn more, visit franciscanhealth.org and search parenting. And if you found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels, and be sure to check out the full podcast library for additional topics of interest. This is the Franciscan Health Doc Pod. I'm Scott Webb. Stay well, and we'll talk again next time.