Scott Webb (Host): Navigating loss anytime, but especially during the holiday seasons, can make all the festivities difficult to navigate. It's okay to acknowledge the pain and loneliness you might be experiencing. Remember, you're not alone, and it's okay to prioritize your well-being. Be gentle with yourself, and find moments of joy, no matter how small.

And joining me today to help us understand grief and loss and share some suggestions to help us manage our feelings, time, and happiness is DeAnn Collins. She's the Behavioral Services Clinical Manager with Health First.

This is Putting Your Health First, the podcast from Health First. I'm Scott Webb. DeAnn, it's so nice to have you here today. We're going to talk about grief, essentially, and the stages of grief and managing grief and helping folks who are grieving. So, let's just foundationally here, as we get rolling, talk about the different stages of grief. What are the stages?

DeAnn Collins: As I was looking through the history of grief, Kubler Ross, who created the foundational theory on grief and loss, identified that there are five basic principles following grief and loss that involved denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and then finally, for those who are able to navigate through their, grief, emotions, there's acceptance.

Now, as she was describing denial, you know, for some people you can notice that there seems to be in avoidance mode, experiencing some increased confusion or fears, while they're trying to navigate the loss in manageable bites. They're also trying to figure out, "How do I process this?" And with anger, people who are experiencing feelings of anger, they might be feeling increasingly frustrated by things that didn't previously bother them, increased anxiety and irritation. Not everyone goes through that anger experience. But for those who do, they might have trouble navigating through that.

Host: Yeah. So, there are, obviously, the stages of grief, but it makes me wonder, do they always go in order? Is it convenient like that, where we just sort of progress through the different stages, or can folks sort of jump ahead and jump around in terms of dealing with grief?

DeAnn Collins: Yeah. They definitely do not follow a hard line. It is going to be something that is different for each person. It seems very fluid in my experience working with individuals with grief, as well as my personal experiences with it, is that they may start out in denial, or they might jump right to anger or bargaining. And so, it is different and some might not happen at all, depending on that situation with the loss. It's different for each person.

Host: Yeah. I see what you mean, that it's situational, it depends on the person. They may experience, you know, some of the stages, they may be in order, but it really depends on the person and the situation. So then, how do we help friends and loved ones who are grieving?

DeAnn Collins: One of the things that I have found to be helpful in supporting those who are grieving is really just allowing them the space and the ability to take things at their own pace and allowing them to move through their grief in their own way. Because there really is no rule book on how everyone is supposed to navigate through loss. They might experience moments of intense sadness, but there also might be moments where they're able to reflect on if it's a person that they lost, being grateful and happy, that they had the opportunity to have a relationship with that person and have them in their life. So, just allowing them that safe space and taking the time as they need it and as they see fit, because it's really about them navigating their emotions.

Host: Yeah, that's a perfect way to put that. It really is about them and trying to meet them where they are and be the best person you can be for them to help them through their stages of grief. And, you know, when it comes to holidays, there are many holidays, generally speaking, the holidays, folks either maybe suffer more loss than other times. But even if that's not the case, it makes them think about that loss. It makes them think about lost loved ones and friends and things like that. So, what can we do to help them sort of stay distracted from their grief during the holidays?

DeAnn Collins: You know, sometimes I kind of wonder though do we want to stay distracted or should we allow ourselves to feel those feelings? Because when we tell ourselves not to think about something or try to redirect ourselves, we might find ourselves drawn back to that more often. So for a lot of people really figuring out what are the regular routines that I usually engage in, whether it's through the holidays or on a day-to-day basis. Routine brings comfort for many of us. And then, really thinking about what are the things that I actually enjoy doing? And you might have to consciously put effort into figuring those things out when you're in a sad place or you're going through loss and then trying to get yourself engaged, whether it's by yourself or with family members or a primary support.

Host: Yeah, I see what you mean. It is a tough question, right? Should we sort of deal with the grief head on or should we distract ourselves? Again, maybe as with a lot of this stuff, maybe it is sort of situational and unique to the person and the type of loss that they experienced. And it makes me wonder, you know, just speaking about the memory of lost loved ones, be they friends, family, whomever, how can we do that? How can we keep their memories alive without it always causing us a level of pain that's hard to deal with.

DeAnn Collins: I think one of the things that can really help us as we're navigating those feelings is recognizing that while there is pain in this moment, it's going to ease up as time moves forward. And as you learn how to move forward and navigate those feelings, you know, recognizing that sometimes the best thing we can do for that person is to allow ourselves to move forward.

And I think, in general, really being able to show ourselves self-compassion and being kind to ourselves, knowing that, you know, the loss is there and that it did happen and that you experienced it, but maybe thinking about ways to honor that person. For example, some people will set a place at the table. So, that they can remember them and feel like they're including them in their family traditions. And are there little things that were meaningful to that person that they could include? And then, they often reflect on that fondly rather than the pain being associated with the loss.

Host: Talking about support, right? Whether it's counseling for ourselves or for others, or maybe if group therapy would be beneficial, what should someone do for support?

DeAnn Collins: I think when someone finds that they're continuing to struggle and for themselves, they're not getting back to whatever their mental health and wellness baseline is, that they would benefit from additional support. With all the technology we have, there are a lot of terrific online resources that are available. But even exploring beyond the technology side of it and looking at local resources, hospice centers typically would have grief support groups. There's also individual therapy. Sometimes there are some just family support groups that are specific to the type of loss that was experienced. You know, for those who their spirituality is important to them, reaching out to their church and touching base with another spiritual organization if that's something that might bring them comfort.

I would also say, too, one of the things that many people find, comforting and supporting of themselves is really doing more self-care, looking into self-soothing techniques, things that bring comfort, self-soothing strategies, they're really a quick and effective way to reduce the intensity of negative emotions. So if someone's feeling overwhelmed or stressed or any of the other emotions that might come along with grief and loss, engaging in some self-soothing strategies can really be helpful to ease that discomfort.

Host: Yeah. And kind of as you were saying before, just allowing ourselves some grace, right?

DeAnn Collins: Absolutely.

Host: Yeah. Being good to ourselves, allowing ourselves some grace. I have a tough time with the next question I have for you. I have a tough time saying no, I find myself over the holidays and these sort of marathon stretches of going here and going there and hosting. Is it okay to say no to invitations? It feels like it's not, but I'm guessing you're going to say, "Yeah, you can say no."

DeAnn Collins: Well, there's that internal struggle, right? Because we feel guilty and yet we feel like internally, you know," I really need this for myself." And I think really that those people who genuinely care about us and know us, they will show us grace and they will understand that saying no is something that you need to do for yourselves. And sometimes, a good way to look at it is saying no is part of your self-care, and it is okay to say no. Guilt is self-imposed and we need to remind ourselves that this is one way I'm going to take care of myself and one way that I'm going to be able to allow myself the time that I need to heal.

Host: Yeah. And I also feel like so many of us rely on text messaging. So when you text people, they invite you via text and you respond via text, I feel like people read between the lines and they don't really understand. And so, I've kind of switched to, you know, when I need to say no to something, or I want to explain myself to someone, actually, I do it old school, like, kind of like we are. You know, I speak to the person. Do you recommend that, that we maybe just talk to each other more?

DeAnn Collins: Oh, I think for sure. You're right on the money as far as people reading things in between the lines, and they can't pick up on the emotion. And sometimes during the holidays, people that we haven't even talked to in months are reaching out and wanting to get together. So, they may or may not even know what's going on. And it's not like you would need to disclose that, but even just saying, you know, I appreciate the invitation, but I really just need this time for myself right now. There's just a lot going on and people understand that and they appreciate that transparency and that direct communication as well.

Host: Yeah, I think when people can really hear you and hear the emotions in your voice and know that you're being sincere and not read into things, I think that helps for sure. And you've been talking a little bit here today about what we can do for ourselves, relaxation, reading, meditation, whatever it might be. What are some of the tips you have to nourish our bodies and minds?

DeAnn Collins: Yeah. One of the things that's at the top of my list for myself and that I recommend to clients that I work with is really allowing ourselves to practice that self-compassion and actively engaging in mindfulness strategies and mindfulness techniques. Those are things that help us to remain present so that we're not regretting the past and we're not worrying about the future. And when we're focused on right now, it tends to help to put things into perspective.

Another key component or things that we can do to nourish our body and mind, really maintain a regular sleep schedule. It sounds basic, but sleep is like a foundation. You have to be able to get that sleep. Sleep is a core and key to wellness.

Host: Yeah, it really is. And I think that, you know, we were sort of framing this about the holidays, but really anytime, the more exhausted we are, the less chance we have of being our best selves and managing a lot of the complexities that we're talking about today. Really good stuff, really helpful. We think about giving back, right? Whatever that means for folks, whether that's donating time, resources, money, whatever it might be, does it help to do that? Does it help to help others, I guess?

DeAnn Collins: Oh, absolutely. Altruism is such a powerful tool for healing. And as you just shared, many examples of how you can do that. You can donate your time. People often talk about cleaning house. And doing their spring cleaning and there is something to be said for that.

You clean up your house. The things you're not using, you donate to those who could use them, it cleans up your space. Often times, it also clears up our mental clutter when we're cleaning our house. There's definitely a relationship between being organized in your home and the way your mind is and whether or not you're at peace. So, giving back can be super helpful to our mental health. It also helps out the community as well.

Host: Yeah, that's how I feel about it. That it makes us feel good and feel involved and feel helpful, and it helps others in the process. So, all beneficial, I think. Just want to wrap up here today. We talked earlier about some of the options for support, counseling, that kind of thing, but let's talk about really like professional help. What's the best way to seek professional help if it's needed?

DeAnn Collins: Yeah. If someone finds that they're not getting back to their mental health baseline, and they're just finding that their sleep is really broken or they're more irritable or just overall not having that quality of life that they want, it would be really strongly recommended that they start with reaching out to their primary care provider and sharing some of those symptoms and the feelings that they're having with that provider. The provider can make recommendations, whether it's counseling or maybe he might look at medication. You could also contact your insurance company, and they can go through providers that are mental health providers in your network. So, we want to keep the costs as low as possible and they can provide some direction with that as well. But the primary care provider is probably a good starting place.

You know, for those of you who maybe are in a crisis or finding that you're absolutely overwhelmed with the current situation, 988 is also an option. It's a National Crisis and Suicide Hotline. They have trained crisis counselors that are available 24/7. There's also text to talk, and that's another resource that's available as well for those of you who would be more comfortable with texting. But don't be afraid to reach out if you find that you're needing additional help.

Host: Yeah, that sounds right. You know, all of us, we have primary doctors, primary providers. When in doubt, reach out to them. We can always branch off from there. As you say, insurance may be a concern. But when we think about physical and mental wellness, we have resources. Hopefully, most people have resources they can lean on and turn to, and hopefully they do. So, thank you so much for your time today. You stay well.

DeAnn Collins: Yep. You're welcome. Thank you.

Host: And for more information and resources, go to hf.org/behavioralwellness. And if you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to tell a friend, share on social media, and check out our entire podcast library. We look forward to you joining us again.