Melanie Cole, MS (Host):  What should you do if you suspect someone you know is a victim of domestic violence?

How can you best support that person and when is it appropriate to call the authorities?

We're going to find out this very important information today on It's Your Health Radio with Henry Mayo Newhall Hospital. I'm Melanie Cole.

Joining me today is Tiffany Thomas. She's a certified alcohol and drug counselor, licensed marriage and family therapist, and the program manager at the Santa Clarita Child and Family Center. Tiffany, thank you so much for joining us, and this is not an often talked about topic. I'd like you to start by telling us about how common domestic violence really is.

I'd like you to please define it for us as well, because I think that domestic violence can come in many forms, and it's not always completely well understood.

Tiffany Rogers: Yeah. Hi, Melanie. Good to be here. There's a lot to talk about when it comes to domestic violence.  

I think we all know that when COVID hit, it created a lot of stress and anxiety for all of us. But particularly when it comes to domestic violence, incidence went up because people weren't able to leave their houses or have privacy to seek support. Again, stress and anxiety was up. People were stuck at home with their partners or their children. The good news is that in 2022, that DV-related incidents did drop by 5%, but they're still very high. And we always want to keep in mind that a lot of incidents aren't reported in general.

But one in four women have reported experiencing domestic violence, and also one in nine men. I think a lot of people think of domestic violence typically as physical abuse by a male towards a female, but that's actually not always the case. Men are also victims. It does happen on a spectrum. So, it can be anything from name-calling and isolation all the way up to escalating to stalking, threats and even physical harm.

Melanie Cole, MS : Thank you for that, and for pointing out that it's not always women that are the victims of domestic violence. However, it's more prevalent in women's situation, yes?

Tiffany Rogers: Yes.

Melanie Cole, MS : So, you mentioned that it's not always physical abuse. When we talk about mental or verbal abuse, because we always tell our children, you know, sticks and stones can break our bones, but words can never hurt us. Well, that is a myth and words can be some of the worst types of abuse. Can you tell us a little bit about the other ways that this takes place besides the physical?

Tiffany Rogers: Yeah, absolutely. So, domestic violence can also be spiritual abuse, emotional abuse, financial abuse, sexual abuse, mental abuse, like you said. It can really show up in every aspect. When it comes to the mental or emotional side, it's really hard because sometimes it can be more subtle and sometimes it can be more obvious. So, it could just be interacting with your partner in a way that has them feel bad about themselves, has them feel guilty, name-calling, having them feel insecure or not worthy, I think are some of the more subtle experiences. Or it could be somebody having access to your accounts and tracking you on social media and wanting to know who you're talking to and who you're going out with. And accusations, I think is another one of an abuser potentially accusing their partner of doing something that they're not doing. And the victim then gets frustrated and confused, and how do I respond and navigate and just feeling really helpless.

Melanie Cole, MS : Tiffany, I'm glad you brought up social media because now in these age of cameras, sometimes you'll see a TikTok or something where there's a man being mean to his wife in a parking lot of a grocery store. We see this stuff now when we didn't used to see it. It was kind of behind closed doors. You know, we saw a lot of movies about it and things. Tell us what we're looking for. What are some of the symptoms outside of the obvious, what we might see on a camera, if somebody posts it? What are we looking for in our friends, in our loved ones, our family members? What is it that really kind of like sets off those red flags?

Tiffany Rogers: Yeah. I think also it's a really good point to bring up with social media because I think we're in an age now where we might see something posted online and overidentify with what's out there.

Melanie Cole, MS : True.

Tiffany Rogers: So yeah, it's really important to consider that when you're considering whether you might be in an abusive relationship or a friend or loved one might be, that you really want to keep in mind whether control is the intention of the abuser and also whether the behavior is a pattern. So, you know, if you take a snapshot from a video you see on TikTok, it could be one isolated incident, which may not necessarily be considered domestic violence. But it's really that repeated behavior that plays a role. And so if you've got a friend or family member or somebody that you know, some of the things you might notice are they might become a little bit more withdrawn all of a sudden. They might seem a little bit less like themselves, a little bit more down, saying that they need to ask permission from their partner, you know, if you want to make plans with them, there might be changes in their appearance, and you might notice that they're putting their partner's needs above their own. So, any kind of changes in someone's behavior, I think, should put you on alert to ask kind of what's going on.

Melanie Cole, MS : So, ask what's going on, do we do that? If we suspect that a friend or coworker is a victim of domestic violence, what is our next step? Do we ask them? Do we ever confront the perpetrator? Because, you know, we all think in our heads that we're a badass and that we're going to go at someone and get up in their face. I'm four-foo- nine, Tiffany. And I imagined myself much taller and like I would want to go and take care of the situation. But I mean, that's not really what we're supposed to do, right? What are we supposed to do?

Tiffany Rogers: Yeah. That's a great question. So, it really depends. If somebody that you know has expressed some concern or kind of opened up and given you a little bit of information that something might be going on, you want to approach gently. So, you want to comment on maybe the behaviors that you're noticing or the dynamics in the relationship and ask what it is like for them. You really want to keep the conversation focused on how your friend or loved one is and how they're feeling and let them know that you're there. You can ask them if they've ever felt unsafe in their relationship and let them know that there's resources available. That's one way.

If you've got a friend or loved one that has expressed maybe some concern or some fear about their relationship, you can definitely let them know that there's therapists or even domestic violence advocates that can help them figure out whether their relationship is abusive or not. There are people out there that can help create a plan if they are considering leaving the relationship. I think one of the things that I've heard consistently in my work is a lot of people don't realize the resources that are available to someone that might be experiencing domestic violence. I know when I joined the field and got involved in the domestic violence program, I wasn't even aware, and I've been a therapist for several years. So, there's protections available. So, you could potentially get out of your lease early if you're a victim of domestic violence. There's employment protections available. There's housing and financial support that's available. So, I'm really glad to be here to be able to share that information because that makes it a little bit easier if someone is considering leaving.

But if you want to support a friend, always be nonjudgmental. Keep in mind, it's never as easy as the person just leaving a bad situation. There's often a lot of fear about what will happen if the person leaves. Will the abuser get worse and retaliate or escalate and things actually might become more unsafe? Unfortunately, there's not a black and white answer, but there is help out there, which is really great.

Melanie Cole, MS : Does how we react and what we do change if there are children involved? And generally, have you seen when children are involved, if somebody is abusing their spouse, does it follow that the children are also being abused and/or neglected, and does that change our reaction?

Tiffany Rogers: Yeah, that's a great question. So, not necessarily. When it comes to control, and again, that being one of the biggest factors with domestic violence, a lot of times or more often times, I would say, it is between the adults in the relationship. Children are already more powerless because of their relationship and their age. But there are times, of course, when the abuser could be also abusing and neglecting the children. But we also want to think about the emotional impact of a child that may not have any kind of direct abuse, but they're hearing through the walls in the home what's going on with the parents or even witnessing it and keeping in mind that, you know, the child safety also is important. And also, on the other side, it's also still their parent, right? So, it's really complicated. And there really isn't a one-size-fits-all approach to helping somebody. There's so many different factors and that's why it's important to seek out help and guidance on how to best support somebody.

Melanie Cole, MS : And I think that's the message here for this podcast today is how to support somebody. And hopefully if we reach people that know someone, but even more if we reach someone that's in this situation and they reach out for help, that would be the best situation. But mostly, we're reaching out to people who may know somebody. And what if we want to be involved, but we're afraid of the supposed perpetrator. What if we're afraid of getting involved? Because, Tiffany, isn't that the crux of the problem in this country when it comes to things like domestic violence? People just rather look the other way. They don't want to be involved. They got their own mishigas. They got stuff they're dealing with and they don't want to be involved. What if we're afraid to be involved?

Tiffany Rogers: That's very much a reality. I think it's unfortunate because that's part of what perpetuates the problem, right? Is that people are afraid to speak up. And so, I would say in those cases, being able to let the person know that there is something available. So for example, if I were to see somebody that might be in a situation where they might need support, I might write on a piece of paper a phone number and hand it to them and walk away, right? So, we don't always have to get involved in such a big way. But I think there's smaller things that we can do and let people know that you're there and that whenever the time is right and they are ready, they know where to turn.

Melanie Cole, MS : What if you do get somebody to talk about it, and we're excited that they're willing to talk to us, we're feeling that hopefully we can help them. But what if then they make us promise not to call the authorities? What are we supposed to do then?

Tiffany Rogers: That's a good question. So when it comes to the authorities, I think, again, not a black and white answer. But the best way to handle that would be to work with the person that is involved and find out what their comfort level is. So a lot of times, even if the victim is in crisis, it's not always best to call law enforcement. It's going to depend on does the person already have a plan in place for if law enforcement is called? Can they flee? Do they have a backpack? Do they have somewhere to go? The abuser could escalate if law enforcement shows up. It's unfortunate and it's not always the case, but sometimes when law enforcement does show up, they don't believe the victim. So, it's a really tough situation that needs to be thought of very carefully. And whenever possible include the person that is being abused, find out what their wishes are. They might want some other kind of intervention and want law enforcement to show up, but sometimes that makes things worse and they might not be ready yet. And so when in doubt, always try to work with the person and figure out what they want because that's the way they'll feel supported, and they won't feel judged. And they won't feel like they're being blamed for being in that situation.

Melanie Cole, MS : And I think they could even feel that people are, as you say, judging them or that it's kind of being heaped on when they didn't want that. It's so important what you're saying, Tiffany, but I'd like you to summarize for us now. You see this every single day. What do you want the listeners of this podcast to take away and to know about helping someone, supporting them if you suspect that they're a victim of domestic violence, what we can do? What would you like all of us to know?

Tiffany Rogers: Yeah, I would definitely say there's resources out there. Again, domestic violence is very much on a spectrum. But think about your relationships. Think about the relationships that your friends and family members are in or that your clients are in, you know, no matter what field you work in. And keep your eyes wide open. You know, see what's going on, see if you notice anything and reach out. There's a lot of resources out there. Child and Family Center is available. And there's so much information on the internet. We hope that there's accurate information as well as we know there's inaccurate information. But do your research and try to not overreact to what's happening. The more informed you can be, the better off, the more collaborative you can be, the best chance you have to help somebody.

Melanie Cole, MS : Thank you so much for this very important information today, Tiffany. And, thank you for all the great work that you're doing on behalf of domestic violence victims, but maybe they don't want to be called a victim, but people who are subject to domestic violence, I think may be a better way to say it, yes? How do you say it?

Tiffany Rogers: It's really however the person that's involved wants to be identified. Some people consider themselves a victim. Some people consider themselves a survivor. So, I always like to kind of put that option back on the person and say, "How do you want to refer to yourself?" Because, you know, going back to the beginning, a lot of the dynamic is about control. So if you can involve that person in the language, I think that's really powerful.

Melanie Cole, MS : It certainly is, and thank you again. And if you or someone you know is a victim of domestic violence, to get help, you can call the Santa Clarita Child and Family Center at 661-259-4357, or you can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE. That's 800-799-7233, or visit thehotline.org. We hope that this helps someone today. Thank you so much for listening.

That concludes this episode of It's Your Health Radio with Henry Mayo Newhall Hospital. You can always visit the free health information library at library.henrymayo.com for so much great information. I'm Melanie Cole. Thanks so much for joining us today.