Life can sometimes be overwhelming. A medical diagnosis, family conflict, work stress, or feelings of anxiety or depression can cause you to struggle with daily activities. When this happens, the behavioral health specialists at Summit Medical Group Behavioral Health and Cognitive Therapy Center can provide the support you need for effective behavioral health management.
Depression is not a sign of emotional weakness or failing of masculinity. It is a treatable health condition that affects millions of men of all ages and backgrounds, as well as those who care about them—spouses, partners, friends, and family. Unfortunately, depression in men can often be overlooked as many of them find it difficult to talk about feelings.
Michael Likier, PhD, is here to to explain how men can benefit from Cognitive Behavioral Therapy just as much as women and how important it is to help get their depression and anxiety under control.
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Cognitive Behavior Therapy for Men/Overcoming Barriers To Get Men To Therapy
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Learn more about Michael Likier, PhD
Michael Likier, PhD
Before joining Summit Medical Group, Michael Likier, PhD, was a psychologist for the Seton Hall University Student Counseling Center in South Orange, New Jersey, where he continues to serve as an adjunct professor in the Professional Psychology and Family Therapy Program. His previous positions include Employee Assistance Counselor at Corporate Counseling Associates and Career Counselor at JP Morgan Chase Career Services, both in New York City, and Senior Substance Abuse Therapist for Sobriety Through Out Patient in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. In addition, he has been an adjunct professor and lecturer for Drexel University, Union County College, New York University, and Mercy College.Learn more about Michael Likier, PhD
Transcription:
Cognitive Behavior Therapy for Men/Overcoming Barriers To Get Men To Therapy
Melanie Cole (Host): Men and women may experience some of the same symptoms of depression and anxiety; however, for men the treatment may be slightly different. My guest today is Dr. Michael Likier. He is a Licensed Psychologist with Summit Medical Group. Welcome to the show, Dr. Likier. Tell us a little bit about how men and women differ in their symptoms of depression and anxiety.
Dr. Michael Likier (Guest): That’s a great question. Men and women actually suffer from anxiety and depression at similar rates; however, the expression of depression in particular for men can be different. Men’s symptoms of depression are not always the classic sadness but there can be a retreat from the feelings or stifling of the feelings or it can also be expressed as anger and irritability. That is one of the key differences between the expression of depression amongst men and women.
Melanie: So then, if those kinds of symptoms are different, then how they act on them must be different as well.
Dr. Likier: Unfortunately, men tend to seek therapy less than women do. This could be a real problem, especially with depression, because successful suicide completion of men is much higher than it is of women. Men do have this tendency to internalize their problems, not seek help and even worse, they have a tendency to self-medicate using alcohol or other drugs which can increase their poor judgment and risky behavior.
Melanie: What’s a loved one to do? If they notice some of these symptoms – anger or increased use of alcohol or drugs in their men – how do they as a first step, get them into therapy to see you in the first place?
Dr. Likier: You want to acknowledge what you see in a loving, non-confrontational way. A lot of men really just have difficulty talking about their feelings, being in touch with their feelings. This is something we struggle with from an early age – the way boys and girls are socialized. Girls are really encouraged to express all their feelings and we all know when our boys cry, we don’t know what to do. We want them to stop crying and we really stifle the range of emotional expression in our boys and this continues through manhood. I often give the analogy that when it comes to emotions, girls are given the big crayon box with 64 colors – there’s blue-green and green-blue and a built in sharpener – to get real fine emotional expression. Boys and men are really maybe given 2, 3 emotions. You can be happy. You can be angry. Right? And the rest of it we’re taught to keep quiet. To get back to your initial question, when there is a man in our life who we love and who we care about we see maybe self-medicating or being more angry or more sullen than usual, you want to approach them lovingly and compassionately to connect with them, to let them know we see a change and that we’re concerned about them. Also recognize they might not be ready or willing or able to talk about it in the way that we would ideally like to talk about it. It may take several attempts to do so but we really want to be persistent in making the connection with compassion.
Melanie: It’s interesting you use the analogy of a box of crayons. Sometimes men feel that by talking to somebody that’s failing of their masculinity or it’s emotional weakness of some sort. How do you treat men so that they don’t feel that talking about their feelings and their angers and their anxiety is somehow a weakness?
Dr. Likier: That’s a great question, too. The good thing about this is most of the time, when I have a man in my office, he’s in my office, so I can explain what I’m going to do and how I’m going to do it. What’s very helpful about being a cognitive behavioral therapist and doing cognitive behavioral therapy with a man is that it’s rational, it’s logical, the kind of work that I do. I explain to them how the depression is manifesting and I explain what they’re doing without realizing it to exacerbate the depression. Then, I teach them techniques that have an empirical basis to them to be able to modify their thoughts, to be able to modify their behaviors to reduce the depression. Men tend to respond very well to cognitive behavioral therapy – CBT – because it has this clear cut approach that connects well with the typical male mind.
Melanie: So, it can often bring a swifter sense of relief, as it were, yes? Even if the male was skeptical to begin with.
Dr. Likier: Yes, because I think for most men--maybe for most people who are not therapists or haven’t been in therapy--there is a mystique about it. Oftentimes, people that have gone to therapy, you sit in the therapist’s chair and you don’t even really know what you’re supposed to be talking about. There is a skepticism, “How is just talking about it going to get me better?” What’s very good about CBT is, up front we explain the role of your thinking in impacting your behavior, impacting your feelings. We demonstrate how this process works. I can really start to show you, even in the first session. I’ll give you a little example of how this thing works and then a man can say, or anyone can say “Hey, that makes sense to me. I can do this.” I can give you an approximation of how long it will take. There will be a beginning, a middle and an end. It’s not this ongoing process where I’m going to stay deep in your early childhood because a lot of times people can’t make the connection to their early childhood to today. It’s a more present-focused therapy, a more solution-focused therapy. Men tend to respond well to that level of concreteness.
Melanie: What about lifestyle changes, Dr. Likier, to treat the depression and anxiety in men? What do you recommend that they do in terms of exercise and diet to really help with that cognitive behavioral therapy?
Dr. Likier: Yes, you want to have this all of this well-rounded. Everyone who comes to me for almost anything, I’m assessing their exercise level; I’m assessing their sleep; I’m assessing their diet; I’m wondering if there are meditation or religious practices are involved at all. You want someone taking care of themselves because there is a strong relationship between all these aspects of health and mental health. Interesting enough, what we find with all of the fancy treatments we have for depression, the first thing we want to get people doing is physical exercise. We get a lot of bang for our buck when we get people moving who are depressed – get them exercising, get them socializing, get them accomplishing things. Things that will give them a sense of pleasure, mastery and purpose in their life. Changing those behaviors to ones that are just general good health practices tend to have a tremendous impact on one’s mental health.
Melanie: In terms of social support and getting the family involved with that man while he goes through this type of therapy, what do you recommend to the family to help a male relative or a loved one with their depression and anxiety?
Dr. Likier: That’s crucial and you want to get whoever’s close enough to the person to do – what I was saying before – is really be persistent in approaching them with compassion. A real take away that the listeners can get from this today is, one of the key aspects of treatment of depression is to understand the importance of people doing things that will likely give them a sense of pleasure. When you’re feeling depressed, you’re not going to feel like doing these things. Say you used to love to run, go jogging, or if you loved to play football or if you loved to take your car for a ride but now you’re feeling depressed and you don’t feel like doing these things. One of the key things I tell anyone who comes to therapy or someone who is supporting someone who is struggling with depression is to encourage them to do the things that they used to like to do even when they don’t feel like doing it and watch what happens.
Melanie: How fascinating and what an interesting topic that we’ve got going here today. Dr. Likier, in just the last few minutes, give your best advice for men suffering from anxiety and depression, how cognitive behavioral therapy and other lifestyle interventions can help them and why they should come to Summit Medical Group for their care.
Dr. Likier: Sure. When you’re not feeling well, you tend to do things that tend to get you feeling worse. I think men, in general, nowadays while there still is this stigma with counseling while there still is this cultural norm of rugged individualism in the sense that ‘I can do this on my own’ and, in spite of this, we are seeing more men doing yoga, more men in the kitchen, more men involved in child care – stay at home dads and so on. We are getting more flexible with our gender norms. We don’t want to get rid of gender norms because that’s part of our society as well but what we do want to take a look at how these rigid conceptualizations of what we should be doing can be harming us. That’s the box, so to speak. We want to start to poke the box. We want to go outside that box a little bit and start to take on these healthy lifestyle changes that will most likely get us feeling better. At Summit Medical Group, I’m proud to say, we have some great practitioners, board certified in cognitive behavioral therapy. You’ll get some good care from some good specialists here who know what we’re doing and have a good track record of helping men and women with depression and anxiety.
Melanie: Thank you so much for being with us. You’re so well spoken and I applaud all the great work that you do. You’re listening to SMG Radio and for more information you can go to SummitMedicalGroup.com. That’s SummitMedicalGroup.com. This is Melanie Cole. Thanks so much for listening.
Cognitive Behavior Therapy for Men/Overcoming Barriers To Get Men To Therapy
Melanie Cole (Host): Men and women may experience some of the same symptoms of depression and anxiety; however, for men the treatment may be slightly different. My guest today is Dr. Michael Likier. He is a Licensed Psychologist with Summit Medical Group. Welcome to the show, Dr. Likier. Tell us a little bit about how men and women differ in their symptoms of depression and anxiety.
Dr. Michael Likier (Guest): That’s a great question. Men and women actually suffer from anxiety and depression at similar rates; however, the expression of depression in particular for men can be different. Men’s symptoms of depression are not always the classic sadness but there can be a retreat from the feelings or stifling of the feelings or it can also be expressed as anger and irritability. That is one of the key differences between the expression of depression amongst men and women.
Melanie: So then, if those kinds of symptoms are different, then how they act on them must be different as well.
Dr. Likier: Unfortunately, men tend to seek therapy less than women do. This could be a real problem, especially with depression, because successful suicide completion of men is much higher than it is of women. Men do have this tendency to internalize their problems, not seek help and even worse, they have a tendency to self-medicate using alcohol or other drugs which can increase their poor judgment and risky behavior.
Melanie: What’s a loved one to do? If they notice some of these symptoms – anger or increased use of alcohol or drugs in their men – how do they as a first step, get them into therapy to see you in the first place?
Dr. Likier: You want to acknowledge what you see in a loving, non-confrontational way. A lot of men really just have difficulty talking about their feelings, being in touch with their feelings. This is something we struggle with from an early age – the way boys and girls are socialized. Girls are really encouraged to express all their feelings and we all know when our boys cry, we don’t know what to do. We want them to stop crying and we really stifle the range of emotional expression in our boys and this continues through manhood. I often give the analogy that when it comes to emotions, girls are given the big crayon box with 64 colors – there’s blue-green and green-blue and a built in sharpener – to get real fine emotional expression. Boys and men are really maybe given 2, 3 emotions. You can be happy. You can be angry. Right? And the rest of it we’re taught to keep quiet. To get back to your initial question, when there is a man in our life who we love and who we care about we see maybe self-medicating or being more angry or more sullen than usual, you want to approach them lovingly and compassionately to connect with them, to let them know we see a change and that we’re concerned about them. Also recognize they might not be ready or willing or able to talk about it in the way that we would ideally like to talk about it. It may take several attempts to do so but we really want to be persistent in making the connection with compassion.
Melanie: It’s interesting you use the analogy of a box of crayons. Sometimes men feel that by talking to somebody that’s failing of their masculinity or it’s emotional weakness of some sort. How do you treat men so that they don’t feel that talking about their feelings and their angers and their anxiety is somehow a weakness?
Dr. Likier: That’s a great question, too. The good thing about this is most of the time, when I have a man in my office, he’s in my office, so I can explain what I’m going to do and how I’m going to do it. What’s very helpful about being a cognitive behavioral therapist and doing cognitive behavioral therapy with a man is that it’s rational, it’s logical, the kind of work that I do. I explain to them how the depression is manifesting and I explain what they’re doing without realizing it to exacerbate the depression. Then, I teach them techniques that have an empirical basis to them to be able to modify their thoughts, to be able to modify their behaviors to reduce the depression. Men tend to respond very well to cognitive behavioral therapy – CBT – because it has this clear cut approach that connects well with the typical male mind.
Melanie: So, it can often bring a swifter sense of relief, as it were, yes? Even if the male was skeptical to begin with.
Dr. Likier: Yes, because I think for most men--maybe for most people who are not therapists or haven’t been in therapy--there is a mystique about it. Oftentimes, people that have gone to therapy, you sit in the therapist’s chair and you don’t even really know what you’re supposed to be talking about. There is a skepticism, “How is just talking about it going to get me better?” What’s very good about CBT is, up front we explain the role of your thinking in impacting your behavior, impacting your feelings. We demonstrate how this process works. I can really start to show you, even in the first session. I’ll give you a little example of how this thing works and then a man can say, or anyone can say “Hey, that makes sense to me. I can do this.” I can give you an approximation of how long it will take. There will be a beginning, a middle and an end. It’s not this ongoing process where I’m going to stay deep in your early childhood because a lot of times people can’t make the connection to their early childhood to today. It’s a more present-focused therapy, a more solution-focused therapy. Men tend to respond well to that level of concreteness.
Melanie: What about lifestyle changes, Dr. Likier, to treat the depression and anxiety in men? What do you recommend that they do in terms of exercise and diet to really help with that cognitive behavioral therapy?
Dr. Likier: Yes, you want to have this all of this well-rounded. Everyone who comes to me for almost anything, I’m assessing their exercise level; I’m assessing their sleep; I’m assessing their diet; I’m wondering if there are meditation or religious practices are involved at all. You want someone taking care of themselves because there is a strong relationship between all these aspects of health and mental health. Interesting enough, what we find with all of the fancy treatments we have for depression, the first thing we want to get people doing is physical exercise. We get a lot of bang for our buck when we get people moving who are depressed – get them exercising, get them socializing, get them accomplishing things. Things that will give them a sense of pleasure, mastery and purpose in their life. Changing those behaviors to ones that are just general good health practices tend to have a tremendous impact on one’s mental health.
Melanie: In terms of social support and getting the family involved with that man while he goes through this type of therapy, what do you recommend to the family to help a male relative or a loved one with their depression and anxiety?
Dr. Likier: That’s crucial and you want to get whoever’s close enough to the person to do – what I was saying before – is really be persistent in approaching them with compassion. A real take away that the listeners can get from this today is, one of the key aspects of treatment of depression is to understand the importance of people doing things that will likely give them a sense of pleasure. When you’re feeling depressed, you’re not going to feel like doing these things. Say you used to love to run, go jogging, or if you loved to play football or if you loved to take your car for a ride but now you’re feeling depressed and you don’t feel like doing these things. One of the key things I tell anyone who comes to therapy or someone who is supporting someone who is struggling with depression is to encourage them to do the things that they used to like to do even when they don’t feel like doing it and watch what happens.
Melanie: How fascinating and what an interesting topic that we’ve got going here today. Dr. Likier, in just the last few minutes, give your best advice for men suffering from anxiety and depression, how cognitive behavioral therapy and other lifestyle interventions can help them and why they should come to Summit Medical Group for their care.
Dr. Likier: Sure. When you’re not feeling well, you tend to do things that tend to get you feeling worse. I think men, in general, nowadays while there still is this stigma with counseling while there still is this cultural norm of rugged individualism in the sense that ‘I can do this on my own’ and, in spite of this, we are seeing more men doing yoga, more men in the kitchen, more men involved in child care – stay at home dads and so on. We are getting more flexible with our gender norms. We don’t want to get rid of gender norms because that’s part of our society as well but what we do want to take a look at how these rigid conceptualizations of what we should be doing can be harming us. That’s the box, so to speak. We want to start to poke the box. We want to go outside that box a little bit and start to take on these healthy lifestyle changes that will most likely get us feeling better. At Summit Medical Group, I’m proud to say, we have some great practitioners, board certified in cognitive behavioral therapy. You’ll get some good care from some good specialists here who know what we’re doing and have a good track record of helping men and women with depression and anxiety.
Melanie: Thank you so much for being with us. You’re so well spoken and I applaud all the great work that you do. You’re listening to SMG Radio and for more information you can go to SummitMedicalGroup.com. That’s SummitMedicalGroup.com. This is Melanie Cole. Thanks so much for listening.