Prakash Chandran (Host): Nobody likes waking up cranky after tossing and turning all night. But for children, a lack of sleep can negatively impact crucial physical and mental development. As over-the-counter sleep aids continue to rise in popularity, more caregivers want to know which supplements are safest for kids and if there are any other ways to prepare their children for a full night's rest.

Host: We're going to talk about it today with Tuesday Glenn, a sleep technologist with Le Bonheur's Sleep Center. Welcome to the Peds Pod by Le Bonheur Children's Hospital. I'm your host, Prakash Chandran. So Tuesday, thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate your time. Welcome.

Tuesday Glenn: Thank you. Absolutely. I am glad to be here.

Host: So, you know, we as adults know how it feels not to get enough sleep, but what are some ways the lack of sleep affects children in the short term and in the long term?

Tuesday Glenn: Well, lack of sleep in the short term in our kids is going to come out in pretty obvious, but simple ways. Like you'll notice them being more tired during the day. They may want to take a nap when they normally don't. They may want to take a longer nap if they normally do or an extra nap. You'll see irritability, low motivation, that kind of thing. In the long term though, it's really going to start to show and lack of sleep can have some really negative effects. It can lead to serious health issues, such as obesity and type 2 diabetes. It contributes to poor mental health, depression, anxiety, more accidents, attention issues, behavior problems, academic performance, falling asleep in class. I mean, it can have so many things. Also, our growth hormone is released during sleep. So, lack of sleep can affect just their general growth, not only their brain, but their height, their bodies.

Host: So, needless to say, sleep is extremely important for children. I'm curious, how many hours of sleep should children get?

Tuesday Glenn: Well, yes it is, and that varies. Of course, we all know newborns sleep almost all the time, that is exactly what they need. They need 16 to 18 hours of sleep. From there, it ranges from 14 down to eight hours. Really, the older they get a little bit less sleep they need. So for toddlers, 10 to 13; once you start getting into school age, 10 to 12; for preteens, we recommend 9 to 11; teenagers, 8 to 10. So, it varies a little bit with their age, but at least eight hours, and some of them need a good bit more of that while they're in those important growing stages.

Host: Yeah, I find it funny because, early in a child's life, you just want them to sleep, right? So, you as a parent can get the sleep. But in the teenage years, it's funny you're saying 8 to 10 hours. And one of my friends was just complaining, like, "All my teenager does is sleep." It is amazing how long they can sleep in. Are you seeing that as well?

Tuesday Glenn: Yes. It's actually rather interesting. I was going to add that after the teen years, that young adult phase, like those later teens, maybe late high school, early college, studies are showing us now that they do need a little bit more sleep in there. And yeah, it's really interesting. There's a movement-- I'm sorry, I don't remember all the details, but about an issue to start school a little bit later because kids need more sleep and they're just not getting it. People say go to bed earlier, but I think we all know that's near impossible.

Host: Now, there's obviously benefits of getting a good night's sleep. Up at the top, you talked about some of the issues with not getting sleep. What are some of the benefits that you get when you sleep?

Tuesday Glenn: Well, there are tons. First of all, you're going to feel better.

Host: Right.

Tuesday Glenn: And then also, your brain is going to function better, if you will. You know, when you're rested, your brain, you can think better. You're going to have better problem-solving skills. It's easier to concentrate, take in more information. You can be more creative. For kids, an increased ability to learn and retain. They're going to be in a better mood; have more energy, which then is going to lead to more activity. And as they have more energy, they'll have a better appetite. And it's like a big snowball effect. Then, they'll do more and then they'll be more tired and then they can get more good sleep.

Host: Yeah. It's like this great chain reaction of positive things.

Tuesday Glenn: It really is.

Host: So, obviously, we joked about this earlier, but it's just hard to get our kids to go to sleep at an appropriate time. So, I'm curious like if you have any recommendations or steps that parents can take to help prepare their child for bedtime.

Tuesday Glenn: Absolutely. One of the things that I think is the biggest deal is for whatever reason, somehow or another, our society has decided that going to bed when they're little is a negative thing. Like, "Go to bed now and it's time to go to bed." Parents can be harsh about it. And I think that if we could maybe put a little bit more of a positive spin on it, first of all, like, "It's time to go to bed," you know, "You need to get your rest." Like make it sound like more of a good, positive thing, that's going to be a big contributor, because, you know, our kids are going to feel or mirror how we feel. So if we're sounding like it's a stressful, negative thing to go to bed, then they're going to feel that, you know?

Host: No, absolutely.

Tuesday Glenn: But also, getting them into a routine. Kids need structure, of course. And so, trying to get a regular bedtime and then some sort of bedtime routine. Like when they're really young, let's brush your teeth and get into jammies and maybe a bedtime story. And then, as they get a little older, as teens or even school age when they think they're older than they are, you know, maybe chat with them about their day or just give them some one-on-one relaxing time, but some sort of routine and regimen, something that makes it regular.

Also, parents can contribute by trying to promote or create a good sleep environment for them. We keep the beds clean and all of that, we do that naturally as parents, but also making sure the room is cool and there's not any crazy outside noise going on. And again, like I said, really alleviate any stress or negativity that we can when they're real little, any fears or anything like that, and just help make it a relaxing, calm, positive event so that children want to get better sleep.

Host: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. Now, another thing I wanted to ask you is more parents are turning to sleep aids like melatonin or other types of gummies to help their kids sleep. Are these safe to use and are they safe to use often?

Tuesday Glenn: Well, actually, I would refer you to a doctor for that. I am a sleep technologist, but anything about meds is really going to need to come from a physician, a sleep physician, or even just their regular primary care physician can guide parents on that a little better.

Host: Got it.

Tuesday Glenn: I can tell you though that melatonin is our sleep hormone that your brain produces to help you sleep better. Our brains produce serotonin to help us stay awake and melatonin to help us sleep. And one of the biggest Issues for somebody maybe needing melatonin is that their brains aren't creating enough of that hormone. And what kills that hormone or suppresses that hormone is too much screen time.

Host: There you go. Okay. Well, that is something that is very interesting that I think all parents are trying to not only get their kids to do less, but trying to get themselves to do less as well. I guess then the question becomes, when should a parent be concerned, right? Like, when should they talk to their child's pediatrician if they are concerned that their child isn't getting enough sleep?

Tuesday Glenn: Well, anytime. Anytime. I'm a huge advocate for sleep, obviously. But anytime they think something might be wrong or just as part of their just daily checkup, health information. How's your sleep? Are they getting enough sleep? Just be a little bit more aware of sleep. Unfortunately, as a society we take sleep for granted. And so, this is wonderful. Anything we can do to make parents be a little more aware. But then, also of course, whenever they start having any concerns. If they're seeing excessive daytime sleepiness, teachers tell them they're falling asleep in class, excessive irritability; needing the naps, like I said, any of these. But then also, if they notice any snoring or pauses in breathing, those are definitely things that you need to bring to your pediatrician's attention right away.

Host: So, Tuesday, this has been a great conversation. Is there any other advice that you want to share before we close today?

Tuesday Glenn: Yes, absolutely. There are a few tips that we as parents can be more aware of to help our kids get better sleep. First of all, cutting out caffeine in the afternoon. When they get home from school, if they want to have a soda or something, that would be fine, but then stop it there. You know, have them drink water or juice or Gatorade or whatever else it is that they like, just cut out the caffeine. That's going to include chocolate. So, don't let them have any chocolate in the afternoons, which also leads to sugars. We don't want to have too many sugars in the afternoon and evenings. We all know that can lead to hyperactivity.

Then also, their screen time, we really need to cut back on the screen time. I know this is really popular back in the day, we used to just say, "Turn off the TV 30 minutes before bed." But wow, we have a lot more screens now, right? So, we need to try to limit the time that they spend on them in the afternoons. And then, definitely go ahead and cut out the screen time 30 minutes to two hours is ideal before bedtime, but sometimes there's just not enough time in the day for that. But again, it suppresses their sleep hormone melatonin and we really need for them to generate that so that they can get better sleep.

Host: Well, Tuesday, I think that is the perfect place to end. Thank you so much for your time today.

Tuesday Glenn: You're welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. And I hope this can help some people.

Host: It certainly will. That was Tuesday Glenn, a sleep technologist with Le Bonheur's Sleep Center. If you found this podcast to be helpful, please consider sharing it on your socials and check out www.lebonheur.org/podcast to learn more about children's health. This has been the Peds Pod by Le Bonheur Children's Hospital. Thank you again for listening and be well.