Nolan Alexander (Host): This is Careers in Care, a Mount Carmel College of Nursing podcast. I'm Nolan Alexander. And I'm here with Dr. Bethany McCauley from Mount Carmel College of Nursing as we talk about Mount Carmel College of Nursing's Doctor of Nursing Practice, the DNP program, what it is, who it's for, and how it can shape the future of nursing leadership and patient care. So an exciting topic today. Dr. McCauley, how are you?

Bethany McCauley, DNP: I'm good this morning. How are you?

Host: I'm doing well. And I want to know for listeners like myself who may be unfamiliar with advanced nursing education, what exactly is a Doctor of Nursing Practice, a DNP degree, and how is it different from a PhD in nursing?

Bethany McCauley, DNP: So, that's a really good question, and we hear that question a lot. So, I'm going to just give you a few different differences between the DNP and the PhD. And so, both of them are what we call terminal degrees. That means you can't get any degree higher than the DNP or the PhD, so it's your highest level of education. And it allows you to practice at the most advanced level of nursing. So, this oftentimes is confused by people whether or not that means you're a nurse practitioner, and it does not necessarily mean that, although you could be. It just means that you will be at the highest level of what you can practice in your scope of practice.

So, the big thing that people always get confused is the difference between research and evidence-based practice. So, a PhD develops research. They find new information, new science that doesn't exist or isn't already known. That's what a PhD does. But if you look at all of the research and the evidence, it takes about an average of 17 years to get that into practice.

So if you think about that, you know, there needs to be a way for us to start using that research sooner. That's how the DNP came about. So, that role's really evolved over the past several years. So, it is a terminal degree. It's the highest level, but it's more taking what we find in research and putting into practice, and how do you do that in a way that is workable for your patients and for your organization where you work.

Host: That is extremely helpful. I haven't heard it explained like that. So, why should a nurse consider earning a DNP, and what benefits does it provide both professionally and personally?

Bethany McCauley, DNP: This is also another question I hear quite frequently. So, if I wanted to give you an, a short answer, I would say its greatest benefit is that it gives nurses a seat at the table. So, if you think about it, we're the ones that take care of patients. We know what they need and when it needs to be done and how it needs to be done. We get so busy taking care of patients that we don't jump into that discussion that often.

So, this degree helps you find a seat at that table where those decisions are made by executive leaders who are not directly involved in patient care. So, it gives us a common ground with other healthcare professions and even people who are in finance or some type of business that are helping us run our organizations.

It also helps us to be able to voice those decisions that need to be made so that we can take the best care of our patients. So, in a nutshell, that's how it benefits us professionally and personally.

Host: So, I want to talk about that seat at the table. How do nursing roles and responsibilities change after earning a DNP? And what kinds of opportunities become available to graduates?

Bethany McCauley, DNP: So, I'm really glad that you asked this because I think that when you become a nurse, then you're trained and you walk out into your first job and you start working as a nurse. And I think the same thing oftentimes goes if you get a master's in nursing education or you get a nurse practitioner degree.

The difference with your doctorate, your DNP, is that it's an investment that you're making. So, what happens is that when you get out of your program, you're highly skilled at finding these best evidences and these best practices. You can locate that information quickly and you've got all the skills you need to start using it right away. How do you train the people to do it? How do you set up your organization so it can do that?

So, the other thing that it does is you'll start leading projects maybe where you are right then, and then you come to the notice of other leaders who are saying, "My goodness, you know, Bethany has a DNP and she's highly skilled at this. I think we're going to put her in this area," which is what happens. So then, it gives you the opportunity to move up into leadership where you get higher and higher leadership levels so that you can make these decisions so that instead of affecting your one patient, you're going to affect nursing regulation, you're going to affect patient care decisions, you're going to affect how nurses are educated.

So, that's how your role's going to change, is you're going to move into a more leadership advisory role. And once you get that DNP degree, it tells people that you have the skills, the ability and, frankly, the confidence to be that leader. So then, you'll get this notice from all of your executive leadership who want to put you in these positions where you actually get that seat at the table we're looking for.

Host: That sounds so impactful. And Dr. McCauley, you've done a great job telling us about the benefits of a DNP. But with anything, I'm sure there are concerns out there. And one is that many prospective students have a concern there about balancing work and school and life. Can you tell us about the different pathways available in Mount Carmel's DNP program?

Bethany McCauley, DNP: Yeah. We're pretty lucky at Mount Carmel to have a couple of different opportunities. So, there is a full-time pathway, so that is a good option for, you know, some people that are able to take a pause in working and maybe not work for the few semesters that they're in the program. Or maybe they can work part-time or they could work even just what we call casual, where they jump in here or there and pick up some time in their job. That's not a reality for most people.

So, we most recently have developed a part-time option where they might take one, sometimes two classes at a time, and we spread that out from 18 months to two years. So, you're still getting done in two years, but it gives you the time to manage all of the competing priorities that we have, our children, our significant others, all of the things that go on in our families, trying to keep our home up. Most people end up working full time through this program. So, that part-time option gives us a fantastic way to be able to have the best of both worlds.

Host: And then, financing your graduate education can feel overwhelming. What resources are available to help students make a DNP education affordable?

Bethany McCauley, DNP: There are several different types of benefits that can be used. If you work for Trinity Health, so not just Mount Carmel Health System, but Trinity Health, you have tuition reimbursement that's anywhere from $4,000 to over $5,000 a year that you can use. And there are lots of other healthcare organizations outside of Trinity Health, if you work for a different healthcare organization where you qualify for that benefit. So, that is a big way that students get through, which also plug for the part-time option. It helps spread that reimbursement out over a longer period of time and helps you really maximize those benefits.

At Mount Carmel College of Nursing, we're really lucky because we have a big generous donor base, and they provide significant scholarships. So once you're accepted to the program, you're eligible to write for these scholarships, which is what I did to help finance mine. So, the interesting thing is, one of the skills that you get very good at in your doctorate program is writing. And so, you write essays for these scholarships, and not many people do it, oddly enough.

And so, it's typical that you'll go ahead and get awarded a scholarship because a lot of people don't even know they're out there. There are a lot of other avenues, too. There's a big regulatory body called the American Association of Colleges of Nursing, or we abbreviate it AACN, and they have a scholarship opportunity through the Graduate Nursing Student Academy where you can log on to their website and write for several scholarships. There is a publisher of medical textbooks called FA Davis. They also have a website where you can apply for scholarships. We have an open education database that lists scholarship opportunities.

And then, if you are a veteran, there are many veteran scholarships, whether you're the veteran or you're related to a veteran or the family member of one. So, there are many scholarships that help finance your education as well as the tuition reimbursement if you're at a qualifying organization.

Host: So, how does the investment in Mount Carmel's DNP program compare to other programs? And what should prospective students consider when evaluating value and cost?

Bethany McCauley, DNP: So, this is a really good point because people have a tendency to think dollars and cents when they look applying for school, which obviously is something we have to consider. So when we're looking strictly financial, aside from all of these scholarship opportunities and the tuition reimbursement that I mentioned, we also are pretty equitable. Our tuition is about the same. I just did a market comparison not very long ago, and we're pretty equitable with the other organizations that are local. But we are about half the cost of some of the bigger colleges and universities that are across the country, and I'm not mentioning any names. But there are several of the bigger universities that have popular programs, and we're about half what they cost.

The other thing is when you look at our tuition, it includes any fees, any costs, any supplies, any textbooks. Almost no one else does that. It's strictly how much you would pay per credit hour. And then, you get in the program and find there's a lab fee and there's a technology fee and all these different fees. Ours is all listed in our tuition cost, so you know exactly what you're going to pay out of your pocket.

If you're not looking at the financial aspect, then the other thing I hear from students a lot is how much they appreciate our smaller cohort sizes. So, we are a smaller college. So, not only are we as affordable as the bigger universities, but we have the small cohort size, which means that we know each other by name, we communicate on a regular basis. And so, they get that small cohort size where they get a lot of individual attention, but also they get so much support throughout the program. So, they get a committee of three that supports them throughout their journey. And so, they also have references going forward. This is my favorite part of the program. I have so many other things that I could tell you about this, but a lot of it has to do with our small cohort size and how available our faculty are that truly care about our students.

Host: Dr. McCauley, I can tell that you believe in this program. But if someone's on the fence about pursuing a DNP, what would you want them to know about the impact this degree can have on their future and on the patients and communities that they serve?

Bethany McCauley, DNP: I had to pick out a few of my thoughts because when I started thinking about this, I felt like the options are pretty much limitless. So when I walk in, and I call them elevator speeches, I have my elevator pitch down because I might get two minutes walking down the hall with somebody at the hospital to say, "Hey, you should really think about this degree."

So, what I will always tell people is that it is an investment that opens doors for you, where you get a place where you can tell the people who make the decisions what is needed for your patients. You have the language to say what needs to be said, and you have the ability to demonstrate how what you do, what you suggest for your patients, is going to play out in dollars and cents.

So quickly, if you look at this country, we spend more in healthcare than any other nation in the world. But our outcomes for our patients or how well they do are no better and in some cases worse. So, that tells us that there's a lot of opportunity for improvement, and that's where we as DNP nurses come into play.

It also opens doors where you can speak at conferences. You can join boards that do the governing for nursing education or decide what needs to go on the testing that all nurses take when they get their license. And I could go on and on from there. But if I wanted to sum it up, I would say that we are able to lead the way in providing the best care that gives us those patient outcomes that we're looking for and also decreasing costs. And it's a win-win for everyone.

Host: Very well said. Dr. Bethany McCauley, thank you so much for joining us today.

Bethany McCauley, DNP: Thanks so much for the opportunity. Have a great day.

Host: For more information, go to www.mccn.edu. If you enjoy this podcast, please share it on your social channels and check out the entire podcast library for topics of interest to you. I'm Nolan Alexander. And this is Careers in Care, a Mount Carmel College of Nursing podcast. Thanks for listening.