Transcription:
An Orthopod Amongst the Cephalopods

Prakash Chandran (Host): As the world slowly starts to open and people begin to start traveling again, it's important for us all to have places to get away to decompress. For a certain orthopedic surgeon, that place is the underwater world. We're going to talk about it today with Dr. Khurram Pervaiz, an Orthopedic Surgeon for Orthopedic Associates of Central Maryland Division and an extremely avid scubadiver.

This is a Bone To Fix orthopedic podcast. I'm Prakash Chandran and I have A Bone To Fix With You. Dr. Pervaiz, great to have you here today. I'd love to start by you telling us a little bit more around how you got so into this diving hobby of yours.

Khurram Pervaiz, M.D. (Guest): So, Prakash, I used to have a huge fear of open water.   I grew up in the era of Jaws, so I was terrified of getting into the ocean. And about 12 years ago I was on vacation and one of my friends suggested trying snorkeling. I decided to get over my fear and get in the water. And to my surprise, I really enjoyed it.

And that led to another trip six months later, where I got my first open-water scuba diving certification. And then it just grew from there. At every step in my diving hobby, I've faced fears and at the same time found my fascination for the animals in the water and the ocean just growing and turning from one of my big fears into one of my biggest obsessions.

Divingis one of the most important things in my life outside of being an orthopedic surgeon.

Prakash Chandran (Host): Yeah, that's absolutely fantastic. And it's so interesting to hear how this went from something that you feared so much to something that you love so much. It's not something that you oftentimes hear. So, talk a little bit about that transition from snorkeling to actually scuba diving. Was it really difficult to get started?

Dr. Pervaiz: Yeah, it was really difficult for me, especially because I've had this fear of open water and the abyss and things you can't see my entire life. And you know, the first time I tried snorkeling I, I was very afraid. I, my heart was beating at a thousand beats a minute. Couldn't focus. It was difficult. But then when I saw the fish and I saw the beauty under the ocean I was fascinated by it and attracted to it. And so when I did my open water certification, the very first dive I did, it's a open water dive close to the beach. It was still very difficult because you're under the water and you're almost be claustrophobic even though the ocean is huge.

You have a mask on your face, you're got a reg in your mouth that you breathe through. But, you know, I just took a deep breath and told myself I wasn't going to quit. And I did my certification and in fact, on my very first scuba trip, which was in Turks and Caicos, where I got certified.

On my very first scuba trip, I saw a shark, my biggest fear in the world, that's the fear that I came from, right? Like I'm going to get the water and some shark is going to eat me. And to my surprise, I had to swim after it to take a photo of it because it had no interest in anybody. It just was passing through. And that's when I realized that creatures in the ocean are not out to get us. And after that I was hooked.

Host: Yeah. You know, it, it it kind of reminds me. I just recently saw this Netflix thing. My Octopus Teacher, have you seen this film?

Dr. Pervaiz: Yep. I've seen it. Yep. I've seen it.

Host: Yeah, for the audience, it's basically about a free diver who forms a relationship with an octopus by visiting it on a daily basis. And it encompasses pretty perfectly what you were articulating in that the ocean is such a big and misunderstood place, even though it covers 70 plus percent of our planet. So many people are just unsure or scared. And you, especially in this first time, open-water experience had the chance to see just a sliver of its beauty. And then you got hooked from there. Wouldn't you say?

Dr. Pervaiz: Oh, absolutely. And you know, it's opened up my world to so many possibilities. I became a diver first, believe it or not, I became a diver first. And then I learned how to really swim. I didn't know how to swim when I started scuba diving. Can you believe that? I didn't know how to swim because there was, I never learned how to swim when I was a kid.

I mean, I knew how to swim, to save myself, but I didn't really learn how to swim until I became a diver, because then I wanted to be proficient in the water. I got all these certifications. I became rescue certified, which means that I'm a rescue diver. So I could, theoretically help in case of an emergency or it makes you a safer diver when you are a rescue diver, because you can recognize emergencies before they happen.

But what I'm getting at is that once I lost my fear of open water, I picked up so many things. I picked up kayaking and paddle boarding and swimming in the ocean and not worrying about what's lurking underneath the surface and waiting for me.

Prakash Chandran (Host): Yeah. I remember there are two things that were different from me. I don't, I'm not fully certified, but I remember I didn't necessarily have the fear of open water like you did. However, I noticed that the first time I ever tried scuba diving, the oxygen or the air I was breathing was much dryer. And I had this fear that I was going to cough or throw up when I was breathing, when I was diving itself. And I also had this fear that, because you go obviously further down than snorkeling, that you can't get up in time. It's not the same thing if you run out of oxygen. How did you overcome like those dynamics? Like for people that are interested in doing it, did you face those fears as well?

Dr. Pervaiz: Some of them, although, you know, I've never been claustrophobic, so I didn't those fears, or those difficulties come from feeling trapped in an enclosed space. Thankfully I never had those issues before I started diving, but those are concerns, but as you become a proficient diver, these are all things that you learn how to deal with.

You get a lot of training when you get open water certified and when you get, know, there's several levels of certification. And I'm what we call a rescue diver, which is the third level of certification just underneath a master diver. So, you learn what to do if you run out of air or if you have to come up in a hurry, if emergencies happen. What do you do?

There's always a way out. And then you also learn how to do things to keep yourself safe, to keep yourself out of trouble. Because believe it or not the biggest danger to diving is not the animals under the water, it's things that humans do that can go wrong.

Host: Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that I wanted to ask is now that you are a proficient diver, that level three rescue diver, tell us a little bit more about what your dives look like. Tell us where you go and how long you're typically under water for.

Dr. Pervaiz: I've traveled all over the world. Pretty much a few of the places that I haven't been to, places that are like on the other side of the world, some of the places that I want to go to, like Indonesia and the Philippines. I've been to all over the Caribbean. I've been to the Pacific ocean. I've been to Costa Rica to the Atlantic ocean, the Pacific ocean. I've been to the Red Sea, which through Egypt, I've been to the Indian Ocean and the Maldives. So what am I dives look like? I'll do sometimes land-based trips where I go and stay in a resort and then dive a lot of times I do live aboards. Live aboard is a dive boat. So, it's basically a boat geared to divers. So you get on the boat. You're usually out for anywhere from a week to 10 days. And the boat is, it's for divers. It takes you to different locations that you can't get to if you're staying on land, because these are remote places and you just go there and you stay on the boat and you dive.

You can be under the water on a single dive for an hour. You could be in there for 20 minutes, depending on how deep you have to go. And since I've been diving now for 12 years, and I have almost 500 dives under my belt, and I've seen so much of the life in the water, I now do trips to see certain animals because I love seeing new animals and I have a huge fascination with sharks. Going back to my fear turned into a fascination and an absolute addiction for sharks. So, I dove with great white sharks a few years ago. I've dove with whale sharks. Dove with oceanic white tips in the Red Sea. And in November of this year, I'm going to be going to Tiger Beach in The Bahamas, which is famous for tiger sharks.

So you know, the dives, my dives now revolve around animals. I like big animals, all sorts of animals. It could be sharks, it could be whales. But then I also do trips sometimes to focus on macro life. Macro life means small little critters. A little shrimp that might be the size of your fingernail that you just find. And you sit there. Sometimes you have to sit there for 30 minutes with your camera. You have to be very patient. And you've got to wait for this little guy to come out, so you can take a five second video. It's almost meditative. I just am fascinated by it and just absolutely obsessed with it.

Host: So hearing you talk, I can hear this fascination and almost as you mentioned, like a meditative type experience that you get from diving, I'm trying to unpack. For you, what is the core thing that you feel like makes you love it so much? Like what is that one thing that you, if you had to like encompass it in a sentence or a word what does diving bring you that nothing else can in this life?

Dr. Pervaiz: I think it just fulfills this need. It's hard to describe, but for me it just transports me away from my normal life, which on a day to day can be very stressful because I'm a surgeon. So, I take care of patients. That's a lot of responsibility and it transforms me into this minuscule object in this abyss, that is surrounded by all this beauty and in those moments, when I'm in the water, surrounded by beauty and all these animals, I completely forget about all my worries.

I am just alone. I'm there. Nothing else matters. And it's hard to describe. In those moments, I feel more alive than I ever do.

Host: Yeah, that's such an amazing description. I was actually just going to ask you about the relationship that you think diving has on your life or your role as an orthopedic surgeon. You know, I know that everyone, all of us need an outlet to decompress or to basically escape to so we can come back to our professions and be the best that we possibly can be. Do you feel like that's the same for you?

Dr. Pervaiz: Absolutely. And I think diving satisfies that for me. It also satisfies, this creative longing that I have, I love coming back and putting all my videos together and sharing those with friends and family, and now even started sharing those with my patients and that satisfies a different need, right?

Like this creative need, the need to create, because I don't, you know, even though, it's so much fun and satisfying taking care of patients, being an orthopedic surgeon; it is at the end of the day, sometimes it does feel like a job and things can get mundane. You know, it brings this other new aspect to my life, which I, you know, I really value that.

Host: Yeah. And I imagine that after a lot of diving, that similarly you feel gratified and happy to return to being a surgeon, re-energized to do work well. Wouldn't you say?

Khurram Pervaiz, M.D. (Guest): Absolutely, and you know, obviously before COVID hit, I would plan my trips. So every three, four months I would go somewhere, you know, for a week and I would dive different part of the world. And I always found that it would be so good for me because it would recharge and I would come back to work and be, feel refreshed and not stressed. And I think that's very important, you know, because we, all of us work so hard in our daily lives. It's important to have an outlet.

Host: Yeah. I also think that we're just like multifaceted beings, you know, there's the profession side of us, what we do to make money. But there's ways that we creatively express ourselves in the world. And for you, it's been interesting to hear how this thing you were afraid of has led to so much. So, it's not only are you a diver, but you are this rescue diver, this level three diver now. And it also sounds like there's another creative outlet that it has sparked in filming and sharing that film with your patients and your friends. And I even hear you have a youTube channel now, is that correct?

Dr. Pervaiz: Yeah. And COVID is something that kind of brought that to the forefront. I turned into one of those photographers or videographers that you know, who takes amazing footage, but never looks at it. I had all this footage from literally from the past eight years.

So, with COVID I had all this time, because practice slowed down, patients weren't coming in and I, all this, I had all this time to myself, it gave me a chance to sit down, look at all my videos from the past nine years and start putting them together and start editing them. And about four months ago, I started posting it online to share it with my friends, my patients, my colleagues, and it's it's amazing.

It's incredible. And it you know, it's sort of a record, even just for me, so that many years from now, I can look back at all the cool things I used to do.

Host: Yeah. totally. You know, just before we close, I wanted to ask for our audience, that's listening, they're probably wondering, look, this is an orthopedic podcast. Why am I listening to the hobby of this orthopedic surgeon? And I was wondering if you could speak to that relationship between what you love so much in diving and what you do for a living which is being an orthopedic surgeon.

Dr. Pervaiz: I think it's important for all of us to have an outlet outside of work. And it's particularly important for people who are going through a tough time, especially my patients. As orthopedic surgeons, we deal every day with pain. We see patients in pain, physical pain. But then there's another aspect of pain that's not really discussed. And it's the mental pain, the emotional pain and people who are better equipped emotionally and mentally are in my opinion, and I strongly feel this, are better equipped to handle physical pain and trauma and having an outlet, really makes you emotionally healthy to handle the difficulties in life. Outlet like scuba diving, or it can be anything outdoors, something outside of work, something that you share a passion in, something outside of your family.

It's important to have this outside identity I feel. And I think for me it's very helpful. It's an incredible stress reliever for me. Anything outside, anything that you identify with for me, in addition to diving. The other thing that I've been doing recently is meditation. And I can, I haven't been able to dive a lot lately because of COVID diving is sort of meditative for me, but it's important to have that. I think it, it really makes you much more emotionally healthy and that translates into more resilience for when you deal with physical pain and adversity and stuff like that, which a lot of orthopedic patients deal with.

Host: Dr. Pervaiz I really think that is a perfect message to end on. Just before we close here, do you want to share your YouTube channel with the audience?

Dr. Pervaiz: It's Khurram Pervaiz Scuba and it's on YouTube.

Host: Okay. Khurram Pervaiz Scuba. And you can search that on YouTube. Thank you so much for your time today, Dr. Pervaiz.

Dr. Pervaiz: Thank you, Prakash.

Host: That's Dr. Khurram Pervaiz, an Orthopedic Surgeon for Orthopedic Associates of Central Maryland Division. For more information, head to MDbonedocs.com. If you found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and be sure to check out the entire podcast library for topics of interest to you.

That's all for today. I'm Prakash Chandran and that was A Bone That's Fixed. Thanks so much. And we'll talk next time.