Transcription:
Back in Action: Patient Journeys to Freedom from Chronic Pain with Dr. Singh and Spinal Solutions: The ReActiv8 Podcast for Pain Management Professionals, with Dr. Singh

 Scott Webb (Host): On today's podcast, I'm joined by Dr. Gurtej Singh again and two of his patients, Beth and Ruby, and they're all here to discuss the REACTIV8 system, which is a life altering chronic lower back pain management system that has changed the lives of Beth and Ruby and countless other patients.

 Welcome to A Bone to Fix from Orthopedic Associates of Central Maryland Division.

I'm Scott Webb and I've got a bone to fix with you. So I want to thank everybody for joining me today. We're going to talk about the REACTIV8 system, and we've done that before, but this is a unique podcast today in that I've got Dr. Singh here and we've got a couple of his patients, both Ruby and Beth. So, let's start here, Dr. Singh, just to kind of make sure that everyone's on the same page.

Tell us about the REACTIV8 system, how it provides relief from chronic back pain and all that good stuff.

Gurtej Singh, MD: Thank you so much for hosting this podcast for us. And really I'm honored that both Beth and Ruby are able to join and share their stories here with all of us today. The REACTIV8 system is the The only system that provides deep muscle stimulation to help patients who have chronic low back pain.

These are individuals whose back pain cuts across both sides of the lower back, sometimes may radiate into the back of the buttocks, but this is something that's different from what a lot of patients have, which is called sciatica. So for patients with chronic low back pain, individuals will experience difficulty leaning over to brush their teeth, difficulty with vacuuming, gardening, you know, just doing very simple day to day chores that used to maybe only bother them once or twice now are bothering them more frequently or even on a daily basis.

They would be great candidates to look at for this REACTIV8 system. What ends up happening is, we're able to diagnose a patient in a very non-invasive way. So, between the history and the physical exam, looking at the MRI, we're able to figure out who is an ideal candidate for this procedure. And of course, folks get worried once I start talking about a procedure or a surgery.

And I think we'll have Beth and Ruby share how easy it was for them. But that is the big thing to reinforce. This is not spine surgery. This is an outpatient procedure. We place two small wires in the deepest layers of the muscles in the lower back and a small battery off to the side that helps to power and run the device.

And so REACTIV8 allows patients to do their sort of own internal physical therapy in two 30 minute sessions. So they'll do one session in the morning, one session in the evening or at bedtime. And as the patient continues to use the device, they continue to see the improvement both in their tone and in their strength, and then therefore the reduction in their chronic back pain.

Host: Yeah, I see what you mean, and I was sort of nodding my head as you were listing the things that folks may have trouble doing now, you know, getting off the couch, standing up straight, walking, you know, all those things that make us human and help us to get around. I think it's a great idea, Doctor, to bring in both of our guests.

I'll start with you, Ruby. Just tell us, generally speaking, from your perspective about the procedure. How did you get there to a point where you were considering the procedure and how has it gone?

Ruby Riddle: Well, I started with back pain, I guess, when I was in my early 40s. I had put a load of clothes in the dryer and stooped over to do this and when I went to get up, oh the pain was just terrible. So, my mother took me to her chiropractor. And I spent a long time going to chiropractors, years actually, and I would have to go a couple times a week sometimes, three times a week to get relief from this.

And then I went to PT, and I went to that for a long time, and it would help for a little while and then the pain would be back. I tried acupuncture, and the same thing. Did not help.

Host: Yeah.

Ruby Riddle: And I was talking to one of the ladies at my church and she was telling me about Dr. Singh. So I made an appointment with Dr. Singh and he helped me. He really did. He put the device in my back, which was not painful at all. I think I was put to sleep when he did it and there was no, no pain. I am just totally pleased with this. I do my routine in the morning.

Sometimes it's 4:30 in the morning if I wake up. And I do them at night before I go to bed, sometimes 5 o'clock the evening. But it does help. I'm 86 years old now, and I have gotten relief from what Dr. Singh did.

Host: Yeah, it's really amazing this REACTIV8 system. I'm sure Beth, you can probably echo what Ruby's saying, probably tried a bunch of different things, perhaps acupuncture, whatever, and then you finally find yourself in the office with Dr. Singh, right?

Beth Hughes: Yeah, I, tried many things, PT for many, many years, back injections, and what they call burning of the nerves and different modalities; things that were considered palliative care, and none of them, you know, despite going long term, none of them worked, and even though they had worked in the beginning, they lost their efficacy and really dropped off and you know got to the point where they were working at all. When I was referred to Dr. Singh, and he discussed the REACTIV8 with me, I was very interested. The recuperation time was very short, and has given me significant, significant relief from the pain that I had been feeling for over 30 years.

Host: That's great to hear. My family always knows when dad's back is hurting because dad gets grumpy . And I'm sure that you both, when you finally got there with Dr. Singh, you were like, why didn't I do this sooner? Why didn't I know about REACTIV8 sooner? I just get a sense, Beth, that any prep on your part, like what was the day prior to REACTIV8 like for you?

Beth Hughes: I would say a little nervous, you know, it was a procedure, an in and out procedure. But, I have to say I was definitely very excited, you know, again, I had been experiencing significant, significant back pain for over 30 years, and nothing had been brought up as a life changing modality to help my back and when Dr. Singh mentioned this, I was just excited. So to have it come to fulfillment was just, I looked forward to it. It was exciting.

Host: Yeah, and I'm sure Ruby, much the same for you, the daily pain, the agony, the affecting your quality of life. And then there was that day before, like before you went in there, where did you have any sense this was going to change your life? Were you hoping at least?

Ruby Riddle: I was hoping it would. The lady that I had spoken with at church, spoke highly after talking to Dr. Singh about it. So I thought, maybe this is for me. I'm going to try it. And I did, and I am not sorry that I did. I just do feel a lot, lot better than I did for 40 years.

Host: Right and you think about that 40 years of you trying this and trying that and agony and misery. And I want to bring Dr. Singh back in. Doctor, you know, folks are going to hear this and their ears are going to perk up and they're going to think, okay. Yeah, I've been suffering for decades. Maybe this is the thing for me. How would you sort of sell them on this? What would you say if they're just on the fence? What would be your words of wisdom?

Gurtej Singh, MD: The difficulty in managing and helping to manage patients with their pain is that these are feelings that only they experience. So because I'm unable to feel what they feel, I actually have the benefit of using, you know, examples like Beth's example, like Ruby's example, in helping patients understand they're not alone.

 There's no reason, in today's day and age, with a device like REACTIV8, that a patient should ever go more than two years of having chronic pain. And so from that perspective, you know, having patients and their success stories helps to show other patients that they can too, experience the relief, experience the freedom, that I think both Beth and Ruby have been experiencing now since they were both implanted.

One of the things, sometimes patients do ask, they'll say, you know, is it better to do this earlier than later? And I think the simplest answer is yes. And that's not just an answer because of how well Beth and Ruby and even many of my other patients have done. But even the scientific literature, the data that was collected when, you know, REACTIV8 was getting their FDA approval, it clearly showed that individuals who started this treatment sooner got relief faster, and the ones who delayed their treatment, took longer to get this success that they were looking for.

So, do feel if a patient's had, say, four, five, or six months of back pain, that's maybe appropriate for the therapy and the medications, the injections. Beth talked about the nerve ablation and burning the nerve, and I think those patients are phenomenal candidates because instead of burning the nerve, deadening the muscle, and then causing more muscle weakness and atrophy into the future, we're going to stimulate that nerve to make the muscle contract. Almost, instead of deadening, we're going to wake it up.

And having, and waking up that nerve, making that muscle contract, leads patients like Ruby and like Beth, to the success that they've had and the only downside is I never see them in the office again.

They're, they're out living their lives. And, and, and, you know, the funny part is, that's great. And, you know, I hope the next time I run into them is at the grocery store or somewhere else. But that's what I think it is. You know, you have folks who've had these nerve ablations, they've exhausted therapy for one, two, three years. Let's wake up the nerve. Let's re-fire this muscle and get them the long term benefit that they're after.

Host: Yeah. Well, as you said earlier that, you know, this isn't spinal surgery. So those of us who suffer from whatever it is, osteoarthritis, back pain, sciatica, whatever it is, whatever we're suffering from that's affecting our lives, it's, this isn't back surgery, which I think sounds really scary to a lot of folks. Maybe you can just explain just in a little more detail, Doctor, like exactly how does this system work? Like, how does it provide such relief?

Gurtej Singh, MD: So there are small nerves that sit in the deepest layer of the muscle adjacent or next to the bone of the spine. And so I'm able to place, you know, a wire down to where that nerve is located. One of the nice parts, as you mentioned, this is not spinal surgery, so I'm not inside the spinal canal, I'm nowhere near the spinal cord, I'm not even near the nerves that go down the leg.

This is very focused and targeted to the deepest nerve of the deepest muscle in our back. So as both, you know, Beth and Ruby mentioned, the surgical procedure, the time that it takes me to do the procedure is about 35 or so minutes. And patients are under a twilight sedation, kind of something like a colonoscopy.

 And then about an hour or so after the procedure, once they've been in the recovery room, then they get to go home. So there's no hospitalization. And the entire time from beginning to end is maybe two to three hours at most. And because it is minimally invasive, because we are staying outside the spine, it's exceptionally safe.

And one of the best pieces of data that REACTIV8 has from all their research is that they haven't harmed anybody because of the device.

Host: Right. Yeah, safe, effective, life changing, it all seems like good stuff. Is there anybody Doctor who isn't the right or good candidate for REACTIV8?

Gurtej Singh, MD: So, when we see patients in the office, one of the things I try to figure out is, does this patient have what's called musculoskeletal or mechanical pain? So, it occurs with certain movements, with certain activities, and I think we've touched on those. Getting out of bed in the morning, leaning over to shave, you know, running the vacuum, loading and unloading the dishwasher, taking the groceries in and out of the car.

All these different things that folks suffer from just on a day to day basis. And that individual is different from a patient that has what's called neuropathic back pain. So maybe somebody had spine surgery with rods and screws in the past. And their story is their pain is 24/7. So, it doesn't matter.

It's not that when they are loading and unloading the dishwasher it hurts. No, it is hurting at that, you know, 6, 7, 8 out of 10, 24/7. They lie down, it doesn't change. They get up, it doesn't change. And so that patient and their experience, Is very what we call neuropathic. And so there are other devices and stimulators for them, but this patient is the one where it's very mechanical.

It's with the action of doing something. And that's how I get to tease out, you know, who becomes a good candidate and who's not.

Host: Right. It hurts when we do stuff. Like for me, sometimes I can't bend over to brush my teeth, and then I end up dribbling all down my shirt because my back just won't let me bend over. Uh, I'm sure that, I'm sure Beth and Ruby, you know, have been through those same experiences. Something so simple in our lives can be so, so traumatic.

 Beth wanted to ask you tell us about recovery, right? So Dr. Singh was giving us an idea of the actual time in the office and, you know, where you're back on your feet, literally and figuratively, but for you, what was the recovery like?

Beth Hughes: I was back to walking around and standing and, you know, active within the house, within just a couple of days. I took it easy just to be on the safe side. I was back to work full time, driving, in and out of cars, sitting at a desk, going to see clients, after less than a week.

Host: Wow. That's amazing.

Beth Hughes: Yeah, yeah, it was, pretty easy recovery.

Gurtej Singh, MD: Ruby, if I remember correctly, when we were talking about, you know, putting the device in, was there some issue about you not being able to manage things at home and that possibly, you know, you were looking at maybe assisted living if you couldn't get your back pain under better control?

Ruby Riddle: Well, I think when I, I saw you the first time and we had talked about it, I was upset, I remember, and I, I just couldn't get over how kind you were. I think that might have been when I found out that I had a heart problem and we weren't sure that we could do it. Does that sound right?

Gurtej Singh, MD: That's right. You had to first go through all the heart testing to get

Ruby Riddle: Right. I had to do all that and I was very upset and you were so wonderful. But I made it, I went through it and it's just been great.

Host: Yeah. Beth, just give you one more opportunity to share with listeners just how much REACTIV8 and Dr. Singh, we've established here, Dr. Singh is amazing, we're all in agreement on that, for sure, so kind, compassionate, knowledgeable, but just your final thoughts about the experience with Dr. Singh, the REACTIV8 system, and just how much it's improved your life.

Beth Hughes: I would say, it's been very life changing for me. I very much appreciate the opportunity to have met and have Dr. Singh complete the procedure on my back. The sessions, you know, that I do in the morning and at night, they feel great, , it's like a deep tissue massage kind of, you know, situation.

It just, it's very relaxing. I look forward to it. I would recommend anyone who feels that they may be a candidate to, you know, to reach out and at least, take the opportunity to discuss it with Dr. Singh because it is life changing and, you know, I had back pain for so long, and it has just been a life changer.

Again, I had surgery just about a year ago as well and, I've just been so happy since. It's, I just reflect on it just about every day, and I just am so grateful to Dr. Singh and the REACTIV8 system to allow me to have this life changing situation.

Host: Yeah. Yeah. Some podcasts bring just a giant smile to my face. Like my face hurts when I'm done because I'm just smiling the whole time, Dr. Singh. And this is definitely one of those podcasts. I just want to give you an opportunity here at the end. Final thoughts, takeaways. If folks have been suffering, perhaps for decades, even the most mundane of tasks, like brushing their teeth, right? It's worth a conversation with you, certainly in the office.

Gurtej Singh, MD: Exactly that's the way to put it, right? If anyone is out there who's been having any form of back pain that's ongoing now, certainly more than six months, but definitely more than two years, we should at least have a conversation. We should talk, let me ask each patient the questions that I do to figure out where pain's coming from.

And we can look at the MRIs together. I can show them where, you know, the muscle is atrophied and weak, and then naturally have the full conversation if they are interested, you know, in the device. I think one of the pieces that our whole entire community should understand, is individuals can have a life changing trajectory with this device.

So, even the individual who says, you know, I have chronic pain, but every six months I have to go get an ablation. Oh, every four months I have to go get an injection. I have not seen either patient in the last one year. And so, their life trajectory has completely changed, obviously for the positive, but the time spent in my office is now their own.

The time spent getting these injections is now their own. The time where they may have had to cancel an appointment or skip a birthday party. That's an appointment they get to go to, and a birthday party they now get to go to. So, I can't undersell the change in the trajectory of life. And I think both Beth and Ruby have been so eloquent in sharing those with us.

 It makes me smile on the inside more than any other procedure I do.

Host: Well, I have loved hearing from both Ruby and Beth today, your stories, very similar to my own, those of us who suffer from this type of back pain anyway, we tend to make decisions about what we're going to do or not do, or if I'm at the amusement park with my kids, oh, I can't go on that roller coaster because I won't be able to walk afterwards because you know, my back already hurts, so I definitely can't get on that ride.

So, the quality of life, the REACTIV8 system, you know, reactivates, if you will, pun intended. So great to have you all on. Thank you so much, and you all stay well.

Gurtej Singh, MD: Thank you Scott.

Ruby Riddle: You so much for having us.

 

Host: And don't let chronic back pain control your life. Break the chains of back pain with Dr. Singh. Make an appointment today at mdbonedocs.com. Find out more about us online at mdbonedocs.com. And please remember to share and subscribe to this podcast. And that's all for today. I'm Scott Webb and that was a bone that's fixed.