Melanie Cole (Host): Welcome to Conversations with MIT Health. I’m Melanie Cole and I invite you to listen in as we discuss mindfulness and self-care which is so important right now for all of us. Joining me is Erik Marks. He’s a Clinical Social Worker at MIT Student Mental Health and Counseling Services. Erik, it's a pleasure to have you with us today. We’ve done one of these before, but we are updating it now because the stress that we are all under right now is almost intolerable. And it’s very hard to describe whether we’re talking to a counselor or a social worker, it is very hard to describe our feelings of anxiety and pins and needles and everything that we’re all going through and especially the students and the MIT community. So, before we begin about some really usable tips from you, tell us what mindfulness really is and why it’s different than meditation or even conscious stress reduction or relaxation techniques.

Erik Marks, LICSW (Guest): I think I often end up lumping the three into one category. And when we start the conversation, it’s useful just to call it all mindfulness. Because in some ways, it is. We practice sitting still with ourselves and in the long term service of being more at ease, focused and effective. Which is something that I hear students and other people at MIT part of the community working on and with every day. So, I think it is important to I like this word, disambiguate and to separate out what the practices that sometimes get lumped under mindfulness, what those three categories are.

And so we could call one of them meditation which is a concentration practice of really trying to get your mind with very little content to just stay in one place and that whenever it wanders, we ask it to come back. Mindfulness has a little bit more content. Now these are for my purposes. You can ask ten different people and get ten different definitions, I think. But mindfulness is bringing your mind back to something. I’m being mindful of. And it could be the breath. For many of us, when there’s a lot going on, when you’ve got P-sets due, when there are family things, issues, worries about and for family, sitting and just focusing on your breathing, there’s not enough to work with. So, being mindful of something like eating, like walking, P-sets not really the same thing. Because it’s the thing that’s producing the stress so finding something else. Taking time. A lot of students don’t currently like the idea of going out for a walk but it’s a really good mindful practice and part of the reason why it’s useful and especially in New England, in the fall or winter; is that we have this additional focal point which is the cold. And so when we go outside, we pay attention to our breathing and we try to fill our minds, be mindful of everything around us and that grounds and centers us in the moment. The present moment. Our mind wants to wander too what the outcome of the test or the P-set will be and our job while we’re practicing is just to come back and be present with ourselves in the moment. So, we take a deep breath in as we’re walking. We feel the ground underneath us. We can feel the cold air rushing past our face, touch our skin. We hear the sounds of people, dogs, cars, and we just try to pay attention to all of it and while we’re doing that, our mind gets just a little bit of a break from the meaning making, that’s part of what causes the stress responses, the meaning making around the P-set or the exam or end of semester, COVID, the election.

And so, for a moment, our mind is just filled with the experience of walking. And we get a break.

Host: Wow, my mind was just filled with hearing your voice. You have such a lovely voice Erik and I shut my eyes while you were doing that because everything you were saying is something that we can take, internalize, use, do. We’ve all been doing some pretty extreme things right now to protect ourselves during the pandemic and as you said, the election and finals and many situations seem to be black and white or out of our control. I’d like for you to give us some more, really usable tips, things that we can do while we’re doing the things that we know we have to do. We still have to work. We still have to do our homework or study for a test or finish our research. We still have to do things. How can we practice mindfulness and try not to multitask and try not to let worry, those intrusive thoughts keep coming in the way of the things that we know we need to do.

Erik: That’s a good question. I realize as you asked it that I left out one of the three things I said I would talk about. Which is conscious stress reduction. You mentioned it in the beginning. So, we can do a mindful walk like I was talking about before or anything mindful cleaning, eating, it doesn’t matter. But practicing training our minds and our bodies to relax on command takes time, takes effort but it’s worth doing. And so, finding a script that one likes. It could be progressive muscle relaxation. I had a colleague years ago who did something called a mountain meditation. But progressive muscle relaxation is really useful because the script walks you through each large muscle group and you practice paying attention to the tension in that group intentionally increasing the tension as much as possible. So, flexing that muscle tightly and then relaxing it.

So, we include this in mindful practices because while you’re doing that, your mind is on the activity, it’s hard to focus on other things while you’re sitting there squeezing your calf muscles tightly as you can. Especially if you are trying just to do one leg and not the other. And so, by doing that, pairing it with breathing, trying to relax as much as we can, teaching our body to go from states of tension to states of relaxation, over time, we train our body to be able to induce that state on command. And the more we do it, like working out, like running through different P-sets and you’re training your mind and body in different ways. And training it this way helps your body be able to remember oh, I’m tense, I can do something with that. I can practice relaxing on command.

And it’s not instantaneous and the first time or the first ten times we practice it, it may not work. But it does eventually, and we get better and better at it like many things we do when we train.

Host: What gets in the way of practicing these types of mindfulness techniques, Erik? What are some things that we’re doing to ourselves whether it’s that negative self-talk or the stress and tension we’re not letting go of and how can practicing it, if we are somebody who needs to go to counseling, who wants to go to counseling, how can it make that more effective?

Erik: So, first what gets in the way. The biggest thing that gets in our way is us. And we get in our own way in part because of the expectations we have about what is supposed to happen when we sit down and sit still with ourselves. We expect that we will feel relaxed and we expect that we’ll be able to keep our minds where we’re supposed to. The myth that any kind of mindfulness practice or meditation means that your mind stops producing content is rampant. It’s a rampant myth. Our minds produce things all the time. So, giving up that expectation is important. I think people often avoid it. I’ve avoided it because I avoid sitting still with myself with my own mind. I don’t get a break from my mind. But core in this practice is training, is practicing being present with ourselves. Learning to not be reactive to oneself and more importantly, to not sit in punishment of oneself. It’s different than judgement. People – we judge ourselves all the time. That could be relaxed as well.

So, I think we avoid being present for our own process and the paradox is, the more we do it, the easier it gets, the less it’s painful, and the less we feel the need perhaps with some help and that’s will lead into the counseling and psychotherapy part, but over time, trying to not be judgmental and punitive with our own thought processes. Just thoughts. But we attach a lot of meaning to them. So, that brings me to your other – the other part of your question. Sitting still for any amount of time, even five breaths, will help – it will augment, it will improve counseling and therapy in that you’re training yourself to stay present for what your mind produces. It might be things you like. It might be things you dislike. But by getting less upset about the fact that you’re having the thoughts, over time, you can’t just will it, the best thing to do is practice and you find out. But sitting still, being quiet, asking your mind to not attach itself to any thoughts, over time it becomes easier and easier to do. It’s not always comfortable. But we become less upset about being us.

Host: I hear you. And when you say we’re punishing ourselves, boy, I bet so many people listening are going to see themselves just as I did when you said that. Please give us your best advice as a wrap up for how we can practice mindfulness, right now we all need something. We need something to help us get out of the chaos and go inside ourselves and find some sense of peace and if you have any mindfulness apps, this would be a good time to recommend those as well Erik.

Erik: I think the meditation portion just sitting still with one’s own mind, not having any content, that’s by far the hardest. So, I think starting with something that is less intensive like conscious stress reduction, progressive muscle relaxation, anything where there’s a script, talking you through. It gives you some content to follow. Learning that there’s no problem doing that sitting still in silence with no content is not the best way. Over time, we learn to trust our knowledge of ourselves. Today, I need content. I need to follow someone’s voice. I need to hear them talk me through it because there’s just too much chatter in my mind. The outside world has intruded, and I’m overrun. So, I need someone – a voice, something. So, that’s fine. And then not sitting in judgment and not being upset with oneself because I can’t do the other kind.

Throughout all of these practices, trying to get away from judging, criticizing. It doesn’t mean not being discerning. Sure, we need to discern and make decisions about what to do. But not being punishing. Not being blaming or judgmental. It’s really useful. That takes up a lot of cycles. A lot of processing power if we want to use a computer model which I like doing. So, we give ourselves those cycles back by stepping away from something punishing. There are a lot of us who think that by being harsh or mean, we somehow will change. And it’s not my experience and it’s not my experience of others’ experiences that by being less harsh and less punishing, we actually get more resources back and we can feel more fortified and sustained so that we can step back out into the chaos if we need to work for change.

So, by taking care of ourselves in our own minds, by being less harsh and punishing, we become more effective. And as for apps, it’s a little complicated. The ones that I know I think all eventually cost something but there’s Head Space, Calm, Insight Timer. Those are the ones that come to mind. There are so many and there are so many different kinds. I think it’s worth trying out a few and see which ones work for each individual student, administrator, faculty, member of the community.

Host: Just absolutely one of the most important episodes we can do right now Erik. You’ve given us such amazing things to think about right now and ways that we can practice mindfulness and your soothing voice, really helps the whole podcast. So, thank you so much for joining us. And if you’d like to meet with one of our providers or social worker at MIT Student Mental Health and Counseling Services, Listeners can visit Health.mit.edu for more information and to get connected to one of our providers. That concludes this episode of Conversations with MIT Health. Please remember to subscribe, rate and review this podcast and all the other MIT Health podcasts. . I'm Melanie Cole. Thanks so much for joining us today.