Amanda Wilde (Host): Welcome back to Northern Inyo Healthcare's Mountain Medicine. Today, we're talking about something that sounds simple, but has a big impact on health and family connection: shared meals. Family mealtime isn't just about food, it's about bonding, learning, and building healthy habits that can last a lifetime.

To help us unpack this, we're joined by NIHD dietician, Denice Hynd. Denice is the administrative head of Clinical Dietician Services at NIHD. And Denice, welcome. It's great to have you on.

Denice Hynd: Thank you very much. So happy to be here.

Host: How do family meals make a difference for children's emotional health, nutrition, even academic success?

Denice Hynd: So, coming together in any opportunity, whether it's around the table, the couch, even in the car, provides a safe space for children to open up about their day, things that might be worrying them or even things that are exciting coming up for them in the week, whether it's on the field, on the basketball court, or in the classroom. And so, it provides an opportunity for caregivers to inquire, to provide observation, feedback. And it allows the child to say, "You know what? Somebody cares about what I have to say, what I'm feeling. And food can be very neutral in that opportunity where it's an opportunity to share.

And another thing is that when we share food, it's also an opportunity for elders to pass down memories, to share memories, to pass down recipes, and even to share how things were before technology. And even with my own children, they're 10 and 12 and they can't believe that there was a time before handheld phones.

Host: It's hard to imagine, isn't it?

Denice Hynd: Yes, exactly.

Host: So, associating food with sharing and comfort are one of those things that can last a lifetime. Some parents feel guilty if they can't sit down for dinner every night. What do you say to families who feel that pressure?

Denice Hynd: There's definitely a lot of pressure of what we should be doing, and what I would tell other parents is any opportunity that we have to enjoy a meal-- or even sometimes we can't even enjoy it because we are so rushed-- is great. So even if it's through the drive-through or quick serve, or sometimes it is just volunteering in the cafeteria at your child's school or having a picnic out of the trunk of your car or a picnic in the bed of your truck is wonderful, because that provides an opportunity for the child to discuss the food that is being shared. It gives an opportunity for question and answer. And again, it creates that safe space for conversations to be had, which are getting fewer and fewer nowadays with people kind of isolating in their own rooms, in the living room or in front of the television or in front of their own personal screens.

So, there is no shame. We shouldn't feel guilty. Any opportunity around pizza, it doesn't matter. We can always find nutrition other times of the day. It doesn't have to always be at the dinner table.

Host: So, family meals still count if they're non-traditional, like enjoying takeout or grabbing a quick breakfast together before school.

Denice Hynd: One thousand percent. A family meal can also be the taste samples at the grocery store. That is also a family meal, or the food court.

Host: Really?

Denice Hynd: One hundred percent, because you are sharing that experience and your child will grow up to be an adult remembering that experience. "Remember when we used to go to that grocery store and get that hot dog before? "Remember when we used to get the crackers and cheese and grandma and grandpa, or you know, mom and dad would always ask us children to get them the extra sample for them because they were embarrassed." And that creates positive memories around food and that really sets us up for success at having good behaviors around food. And that is separate from nutritional intake.

Host: Well, how can mealtime be a positive space when you have a picky eater? Like, how do you encourage kids to try new foods without creating battles?

Denice Hynd: So, picky eating is also kind of fueled by what we call food neophobia, the fear of trying new foods. And with picky eating, we really want to not make a big deal about it. We definitely don't want to force children. We want to do something called food chaining where you link a scary food for the children. For example, let's say broccoli is a scary food, and we link it or chain it to a safe food. So, let's say chicken quesadillas are a safe food for the children. We would then chop the broccoli super, super fine, or put it into the food processor already cooked and steamed in the food processor, super, super fine, and kind of let the cheese melt around the broccoli inside the chicken quesadilla. And then, don't even mention that the broccoli is in there. Just serve the quesadilla in triangles with fun dipping sauces. And it's on the table. And the expectation is that everybody puts some of the quesadilla on their plate. And that way, the scary food is inside the safe food and the child is more likely to try the safe food, even maybe not knowing that the scary food is in there, but the expectation is that the scary food is going to be continuously exposed to the child 30, 40 times in the next year or two years, because we want to set that expectation that vegetables are going to be served at the family table and vegetables will be ordered at the restaurant, et cetera. And so, food chaining is what we would encourage.

But also, allowing the child to serve others the scary food, giving them the authority is also seen in research to be having a positive effect, giving the child the authority versus the caregiver being the authority. So, have the child serve the broccoli to all the other siblings, have the child serve the broccoli to the parents, and then the child can serve the broccoli to themselves. They don't have to eat it. But now, they are the ones in charge and then they can call the shots. So, those kind of things also are very beneficial.

Children are also very much influenced by their peers. So if you know a child that likes broccoli, invite them over and allow your child to see that other child enjoying the broccoli, because again children don't want to be told by parents, but they are more influenced by their peers. They're influenced by social media. So if you can find a social media video of other children enjoying-- like famous children with a lot of followers enjoying broccoli, bring it to the table. That is the one time that you want the screen time on the table. So, those are some ways that we can introduce scary foods to children.

Host: Well, how does a scary food even become a scary food? Because I think of really little kids who, like, they love broccoli, but then it seems like we almost learn not to like vegetables and to love candy.

Denice Hynd: Exactly. So, sometimes it is brought on by negative conversations from adults and other children in the home. So, we want to have a very neutral attitude around food when the child is starting to grow up. Because if another child says, "No, I don't like" or "Yuck" or "Gross," then the other children are going to already believe: no, yuck, gross, scary. And children are also kind of affected by texture, which is why I mentioned putting something in the food processor. Because sometimes when things are so finely chopped, there really isn't a texture to it versus kind of like imagine boiled zucchini texture, right? Versus super finely grated zucchini in a spaghetti sauce, it's invisible, versus serving zucchini rounds that have been steamed for a long time on your plate, that's not going to be very appetizing.

So, we want to make sure that the adults coming to the table are very neutral and that all the adults around the child have shared goals for the children, that we are going to be kind of liberal eaters or at least have very positive conversations or neutral conversations around food. And we're not going to attach food to body shaming or say food is good or bad, because food is fun and food is also fuel. So, we don't want to say, "This food is bad. This food is healthy. This food is unhealthy. This food is good." We want to make sure we label food as neutral or fun food or fuel food. And some food can be both fun and fuel.

Host: Exactly. Should you keep offering if kids say, "I don't want that"? I had a friend who did this every few minutes, would offer again, "Would you like some of this?"

Denice Hynd: Yes. The expectation is that you continue to expose the child to all the foods that you naturally eat as your family, as a culture, because the more the child is exposed to the food and the more opportunities the child sees that the food isn't going to hurt them, the child is more likely to try it. And maybe the child won't try it at three years old, four years old, but eventually at seven or eight years old, they will. Because picky eating is really only really seen in developed cultures where children have a choice, right? So like, if you see in the U.S., even at the early age in elementary school, we have choices. Do you want the pizza or do you want the taco? Do you want the macaroni and cheese or do you want the spaghetti down the line at the lunch line? Or we go to the buffet. And other parts of the world, there is only one plated meal. And if you don't eat it, then you're hungry and then you go home for supper at home.

And so, we don't want to keep offering multiple choices because then the child will know, "If I don't eat, then I get the granola bar. If I don't eat, I get the peanut butter and jelly. If I don't eat, I get the fish sticks." So, you want to continue setting the expectation that in this home, we always have a fruit and a vegetable on the table. When we go to restaurants, we always order a fruit or a vegetable. When we travel, we always travel with fruit and vegetables. And so that way, they grow up knowing that those are healthy behaviors, is to always be around the foods that are going to lower our risk for chronic disease, obviously make us healthier and stronger, build immunity, et cetera.

So yes, continue exposing the child. The research really shows 20, 40, even 50 times, exposing the child. Now, you don't need to expose a child every day. But once a week, every two weeks, something new.

Host: Don't necessarily give up. Denice, we're talking about meals as a sharing positive space. What are some creative, age-appropriate ways to get kids involved in the planning and preparing of meals, which also might help with what we were just talking about, trying new foods?

Denice Hynd: So for the older children, let's say 10, 11, 12, if you can get 13-year-olds to also participate, however old they are that year, you can give them that amount of spending money in cash. And when you go to the grocery store, give him that money. So for example, my oldest son is 12 years old. I could give him $12 and give him full authority to spend those $12 on a new food for the family or a new food or a new side dish that he would like to try or something to add onto the meal or a snack or whatever it may be. In that way, again, they are more influenced by their peers, what they see on social media. And it gives them creativity, it gives them math skills. They're contributing to the family. It shows them about taxes. You know, if you only have $12 and something is $11.99, are you going to have enough? It gives them social skills. So, it builds so much more than just Involving them in the food planning. So, that's something that you could do with like the older children.

They can also obviously participate in the actual cooking of food. They can flip eggs, they can stir boiling pasta, things like that. For the little children, you know, let's say four, five, six, seven-year-olds, however old they are, you know, if they're six years old, they can pick six new recipes for that month, or maybe they pick six new fruits that they want to have on your table or in the refrigerator. So, making it really fun, but unique for them. So, I'm six years old and brother is three years old. So, brother only gets to choose three. I get to choose six. So, you make it a fun competition, things like that.

Also, giving children, like I mentioned before, full authority over bringing things in. And what children really enjoy is serving others because now they get to say, "No, dad, no, mom, no, brother-- you have to have a little bit more spinach" or "You get to have a little bit more of this on your plate." They make it fun. We're attaching positive, funny memories to mealtime, and that really dominoes into their adulthood, and then that's how we create generations and healthy communities. When we have healthy families, healthy communities, we know from public health, I mean, it just dominoes into reduced crime rates and everything else. So, that's a whole 'nother conversation.

Host: Well, they develop skills like you said, and memories that they will use their whole lives.

Denice Hynd: Absolutely.

Host: It just touches on so many things, but you've made it accessible, I think, for many of us. So, Denice, thank you for the great tips and ideas like food chaining and such encouraging insights. It's really a good reminder that meals don't have to be perfect or fancy. At the end of the day, it's really the act of coming together that really matters.

Denice Hynd: Yes, exactly. It was my pleasure.

Host: Well, thank you, Denice, for sharing ways families can make mealtime both fun and meaningful. For more health and nutrition resources and updates on our community programs, follow Northern Inyo Healthcare District on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube, or visit us at nih.org.