Gaurava Agarwal (Host 1): Too often, we reserve the label of leader for someone with a fancy title before their name.

Host 2: But great leaders are everywhere in our midst.

Host 1: I'm Gaurava Agarwal, but everyone calls me G.

Host 2: And I'm Logan Pause.

Host 1: On Anatomy of an Everyday Leader, we believe that everyone has the potential to be a great leader on a healthcare team.

Host 2: To find out what it takes and what it means to lead in healthcare, we talk to people from around Northwestern Medicine who are doing just that.

Host 1: Whether you've just started your career in healthcare or are a seasoned professional, have a leadership role or hope to take one on someday, this podcast is for you.

Host 2: Join us as we peel back the layers of leadership to ultimately make healthcare better.

Our two guests today come from two different Northwestern medicine locations. But they both have backgrounds and hospitality that have molded them into the leaders they are today. Lisett Bringas is the Manager of Support Services overseeing environmental services at Northwestern Medicine Huntley Hospital, and Joanna Casillas is the Residency Program manager in the Obstetrics and Gynecology Department at Northwestern Memorial Hospital.

Today, we'll be talking about how they apply hospitality practices to healthcare to effectively lead their teams. Welcome, Lisett and Joanna.

Joanna Casillas: Thank you. Thank you for having us.

Host 2: Joanna, why don't we start with you? If you could provide who you are, what your role is, and a little bit of your background as well.

Joanna Casillas: So, my name is Joanna. I've been with Northwestern Medicine a little bit over four years, six months into my role now as Residency Program Manager with a Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology. I started at Northwestern Medicine as an administrative coordinator, but my background is in hospitality.

Host 2: Wonderful. And we're going to come back to that background a little bit more. But Lisett, why don't you give our audience an introduction of who you are, what role you have here at Northwestern Medicine.

Lisett Bringas: I am the Environmental Services Manager here at Northwestern Medicine in Huntley. I am going on five years. I was actually brought in as a contractor, and then was fortunate enough that Northwestern Medicine decided to bring us all on. I'm just so grateful that I was able to stay with Northwestern Medicine. And every day is a challenge, but it's always a positive ending.

Host 2: You both have an experience in hospitality. How have those experiences helped shape you as a leader? And then, how do you utilize the skills from your time in hospitality now in your role as a leader at Northwestern Medicine? Lisett, why don't we start with you?

Lisett Bringas: First? I'd like to say that I probably would've never left hospitality if it wasn't for COVID. You know, it was St. Patrick's Day—I'll never forget it—March 17th, 200 of us were all let go at one time. And for the first time ever, I found myself unemployed. And that was a length of six months.

And as I was sending out hundreds and hundreds of resumes, I came across a director of housekeeping and I thought to myself, "I've been in hospitality, I've been a director of housekeeping for hotels. I'm going to go for it." So, that's how it all started.

When you think of the similarities, it's all about satisfaction. If you look at it as a guest or a patient in housekeeping, our goal is to make sure that we satisfy. Same as the hotel, it's first impression. As soon as they walk in that door, as soon as the front desk agent greets you, as soon as they make eye contact, the challenges of, you know, 24/7 staff coverage.

So, everything aligned as far as the similarity. I just did not have any clinical experience. So, I just went with the basics and I just focused on what I knew, and that was managing people. And that's where it started for me. So, I just kept thinking to myself, whatever acronym they use, Google it. Google it, you know? And that's how I would get through when I was in the C-suite or in a meeting that I really was unsure what they were speaking to.

Host 2: That's really good. Joanna, what about you? Share a little bit about your background and hospitality and how you bring that into your role as a leader.

Joanna Casillas: Early on, it began understanding for myself that I had a passion for working with people and helping people. So, I went to school for psychology using that inner sense that I enjoyed helping. I feel like it was a natural progression for me to go into hospitality. I started as a line level employee, so what they call PBX or the phone operator and had a natural ascension into a lead role, supervisory role, and then as a front office manager. I really enjoyed my time in hospitality, and I thrived in it, and I was very successful in it. The way that it had molded my leadership to today. I feel like it's very, kind of like what Lisett said, a lot of what you learn in hospitality and they instill in you, I think, it could work through a multitude of industries.

But the lens that I see it, when you get hired on into hospitality, they teach you guest experience is utmost important. So, being of service, the people has helped me transition into Northwestern Medicine and helped me stand out. I see leadership through the lens of hospitality. For me, it's focusing on service, anticipating the needs, and making sure everybody feels welcome and valued.

It's crucial to understand the needs of my team and creating a supportive environment where there's clear structure and accountability both up and down. So, accountability for our team members and also for myself, asking do they have the tools and resources necessary to meet the expectations we have of them. Have I done what I said I was going to do and follow through on myself and any opportunities for improvement?

One of the key lessons that I learned in hospitality was through one of my early managers who then turned into a mentor, which instilled in me, "We never get to say no." No should not be in our vocabulary in hospitality. Whatever a guest needs, we can always say, you know, "That's a great question. Let me touch base with my colleagues and ask around and I'll followup with you." And I think that lesson has really made me successful at Northwestern Medicine because I did not have a background in healthcare. I was in event management at the time when COVID occurred, my branch closed down, so we were laid off. I was without a job for the first-time in my life as well for about eight to nine months. And I heard through this opportunity being an administrative coordinator. And when I looked at the job description, I was like, "Well, everything I've been doing kind of is what I'm going to be doing there on a smaller scale."

Host 1: In positive psychology, there's a tool that we use to try to deal with bad stuff and it's called, "When one door closes, another one opens." And so, you two are living proof of, you know, you had to adapt to COVID and we are better off for it in terms of having you both as a part of our family, so I appreciate that.

Host 2: Speaking to a group of leaders, maybe new to their role or developing leaders, how do you continue to have that attention to detail while also managing your long list of tasks? Lisett, why don't we start with you?

Lisett Bringas: Sure. I think that for me the number one thing is to be mindset, and ou have to be willing to invest. You've got to invest in your frontline. If it's a conversation of how are your kids today, earning that trust, I think that is, for me, my practice constantly. It doesn't have to be a lengthy conversation. It could literally just be in passing and something that makes them feel that you have given them the attention. And I find that that's very helpful and also receptive.

When any frontline employee—or any person, it doesn't even have to be a frontline, it could be at all levels—when you just take that one moment to make them feel valued, I think that's a win-win.

Host 2: Great. Joanna, what about you?

Joanna Casillas: I think what's really helped me is being curious, having the curiosity enough to care about what they're communicating to you, and then anticipating those needs. You get to be having a normal conversation just talking about birthdays, You know, the physician can mention my kids' birthdays are this month or that day. "Okay, I'm going to note the birthday of their children, and then put it on my calendar." Maybe we'll discuss it at our next touch point and be like, "Hey, I noticed you brought this up. Would you like me to put those days in the calendar so that you're not assigned clinically?"

Also, anticipating needs, I feel like it's something that they show you in hospitality from the get-go and making sure that the interactions that you're having are meaningful and picking up on little details. In hospitality, what comes to mind for front desk? The same mentor who taught me not to be able to say no. She taught me, you know, pick up on the little details that might make their experience meaningful while they're with us. "Oh, you're here for business or leisure," and they just say leisure, "Oh, I'm here for my wedding or anniversary, or whatever that may be." And they trained us to seek out those details, and then do something nice for them to make their experience memorable with us. And it's no longer, you know, "I stayed at so and so hotel." It's, "I stayed here because they made it meaningful. Next year, when we go back, I want to stay there again." So again, attention to details and just being curious, I think, will really help anybody stand out. And I think hospitality helps you be that. And it's transferable to anywhere you go. You could be curious about little things about connecting with people. It doesn't have to be workplace only.

Host 1: It's one of those interesting things where I think sometimes people always just think about hospitality or service to the customer or, in our case, the patient. But the hospitality principles apply to each other, our own workforce. And obviously, you all are doing that with the teams you lead, you're doing it with your residents, your fellows, the physicians you serve.

Joanna, I don't know if I actually told you this, but you were nominated for this because my friend and colleague, Dr. Waters said that concept of hospitality, that anticipatory need, right? That other hospitality concept of anticipation of needs was the thing that you taught her, which I didn't even know I needed that, and she would be on it, and it changed my life.

I heard you say curiosity is one way to get to anticipation. Any other tricks or tips you have for our leaders to say, how can we anticipate the needs of our workforce and/or our patients?

Joanna Casillas: I would say preparedness. Preparedness is super important and something that they really drive in hospitality. Before you start your day, you have your sign out. So whoever is leaving off the shift and whoever is starting the shift, they meet prior to beginning their shift and they discuss anything that happens to do prior or things that need to be prioritized on that day. So, those signups are super important. And as in hospitality, it's always checklists. Do you have your morning checklist, your midday checklist, your end of day checklist, and your in between checklist? So, I think looking for those opportunities where either the night shift could prepare something for the morning shift that will help them lessen their workload during the moment and be able to have that attention to the guest or the client or the person in front of them.

Lisett Bringas: I totally agree. And I think that we tend to also be very proactive. And we are very good at multitasking. I would have to say that's the other thing that makes us very successful.

Host 2: You know, you both have talked about service and anticipating needs. How do you balance service and anticipating needs of your teams and your colleagues, and also the demands of operational performance?

Joanna Casillas: I'd say for myself, that's something that Northwestern Medicine helped me with. So in hospitality, like Lisett mentioned, we wear multiple hats. We are balancing projects while what we're doing in front of us and managing our teams, making sure that our teams can be developed, they're growing themselves and investing that time, And the team members that you have that do want to move up.

So I think it's all about creating boundaries for yourself, which in hospitality, I didn't have. Anybody would come up to me and be like, "I need help with this," i would stop what I'm doing, and then I would help them or do what needed to be done in the moment. But through Northwestern Medicine, I think I've been able to hone in on those boundaries and say little things such as blocking off my calendar, like, "I need to work on this project. I'm going to block off one hour and only answer emails that are urgent or emergencies or need immediate attention."

So, I think learning about yourself, really becoming more self-aware of the tendencies that you have, and then creating those practices that are going to help you. And I think setting those boundaries is extremely helpful to balance multitude of projects multitude of people, team members, managing up as well as managing down.

Lisett Bringas: I agree, Joanna. I think one of the things also is having that calendar to work from. In hospitality, there was no such thing as you were working off a calendar. You had a 9:00, a 10 30, you got to, you know, jump on the 11:00. That just wasn't a part of our structure. I think that makes a big difference, is that you have a structure and it allows you to be proactive. If I've got budget meeting, I know that what day that budget meeting is, I know how much time I need to get that meeting and my prep for that. So, that was huge for me. Learning to sit down in front of a computer and having meetings was a very big challenge, but yes, you're absolutely right. I couldn't agree with you more.

Host 2: What is one hospitality-driven habit or principle that you believe if scaled across our entire organization, if every leader were to have this one hospitality-driven habit or principle, that it would help us be a stronger, better organization?

Joanna Casillas: Preparedness. I think that's really what has been the drive of my success, is to be prepared for whatever it might be. On Fridays, I end my day by looking at the week ahead. I don't start Monday thinking, "Okay, what do I have for the week?" I do that on Fridays. In the mornings, I look at my task list, which is something that I love about Northwestern Medicine.

And hospitality, I feel like it's limited resources, so you have to get creative on how you're going to do certain things. But when I came to Northwestern Medicine, we have a lot of Outlook products. And I think utilizing OneNote has been a godsend for me because I used to write everything down. You know, in hospitality, in a meeting, or I'm starting in my sign out meetings, I wrote everything down because I'm not going to remember everything. But I know everything that I've been told is going to affect something in my day, in my week, whatever it may be. So if a leader can just prepare themselves or create that habit for themselves, what does my day look like? But what does tomorrow look like? What does next week look like? That has been really what has driven my success in any role that I've had.

Host 2: That's a great answer. Lisett, what about you?

Lisett Bringas: I would have to say it's communication. I think that so many times in communication, if you don't make sure that it's clearly understood between every partner that you are trying to communicate to, they really have to make sure that you are clear and thorough. And the best advice ever in hospitality and healthcare, that communication, the majority of time also be reinforced with visual communication. It cannot always be verbal, because you have individuals that, you know, have our multi-cultures, they have different languages that maybe have a different perception of what you're trying to explain. So, I would indicate communication visually and verbally.

Host 1: I think there's a lot of people in healthcare that want to serve people, but there's a lot of us that are not necessarily extroverted. I get a lot of meaning out of helping someone in their time of need. My tank does get drained by the end of the day, number of conversations, et cetera. Is there something you do that helps you fill up your tank so that you can serve in such a deep way that you all clearly both do?

Lisett Bringas: You just have to be honest to yourself and identify when your tank is empty, there's nobody that can say that our tanks don't get empty. We're human. It could be emotional things from your home that you bring in, even though you try not to bring in. It could be something that you heard from a family member that could be affecting yourself as an aunt or a sister-in-law, right?

So, I think identifying is very important. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with saying, "I'm being challenged today. I need 15 minutes." And I think that's very important. We tend to be looked upon as the problem solvers the majority of the time, but absolutely being truthful to yourself and identifying when that tank is empty.

Joanna Casillas: When my tank is empty and I feel like I'm done, I take a walk. I love walking. But like Lisett said, noticing like, "Oh, I'm really being challenged today. I'm having a hard time now. Like I'm completely drained. I'm going to go and take a walk."

Something else that I've started through Northwestern Medicine while their trainings and webinars they have is I meditate now. I've learned that I've had to meditate less now. So again, being self-aware and putting the boundaries that I've learned through my role here has really helped me. I'm a very introverted person. So, I have 48 residents. I have to be able to be extroverted at times, but I'm self-aware. I know that I find it fulfilling to help others and be in service of others. So in that moment, I think, "Okay, I have to be extroverted now because I am being in service of others. They're going to feed off of my energy. So, I want to make sure that they have good energy coming out so that they're able to do the task that we need them to do or go and be successful and help our patients.

And also reading. I love to read. I love, love, love to read. When I have a hard day, I always say to myself, "I can't wait to get home and read four or five chapters."

Host 2: I think you've provided some really helpful insights about some principles of hospitality and how they show up in your environment. I think that our audience would also love to hear is how does a leader with a framework of hospitality address other areas? So for instance, how you might handle a difficult conversation. I just would be curious of how do you approach those conversations with a lens of hospitality, or at least a background coming from hospitality.

Host 1: And maybe just to add any tips around service recovery, we're going to screw up. And so the question is, what are the principles around good service recovery? I think they're related.

Lisett Bringas: First and foremost, recovery is identifying the err or the challenge, right? I mean, I tell this to housekeepers all the time, it's totally okay if there's something that you don't know. And don't feel like you can't speak up. So, I think building that trust, having that honest conversation, I think very important.

As far as leadership, I think the majority of the time, it's just really the lack of knowledge, not understanding the mutual goal, not understanding what our role in a day-to-day will affect if your portion of the responsibility isn't done. What you're asking of me is not just as simple as you think it may be. It could mean that your request has just pulled my houseman away for an hour and a half from a job that no one is going to refill and do while you've asked for this, right? So, that's one thought in the frontline .

And it was the same thing in hospitality, the same thing. It didn't matter if you are short of housekeepers, if you are short turn in banquets and you didn't have servers, it was the same concept. Not always understanding the role of the individuals in the individual departments.

I think it's really important when you're having those conversations to just provide clarity. Let them know, you know, "I understand this is your ask for me. But let me explain the repercussions if I do what you're asking of me," or "Can we collaborate in a way that I can help you and you can help me?" I think that is just so important, and I always go with that mindset of the explanation first, of understanding each other's ask.

 And coming to the final end where it doesn't matter if it was in hospitality, if it was related to patient care, if it was related to transferring a patient from literally two rooms down, how that affected when our board is blowing up and you have, you know, 45 discharges anticipated. That thought process, was that actually the best thought? Was that effective? I think those conversations are difficult, but I think that they have to be had.

Joanna Casillas: For myself, having difficult conversations. Again, I bring it back to preparedness. Prepare the conversation for the person that you're going to have in front of you. Because as Lisett mentioned some people are visual learners or some people are auditory learners, but some people perceive information differently.

So, perhaps there's the manager that will pull out the rule book and read it off the rule book and do this, this, and this, where maybe that person's not going to perceive that well because you're not having a humanistic conversation. It's more about the rule book, but there are other people who are receptive to that. "Okay, tell me what I did wrong and I'll fix it in the future. Those people are direct. They want the information. And then, they'll act upon it. You don't need a 30-minute with them. I know if I have a difficult conversation to have with A, B, and C, this one will be short. I'll be direct. I'll let them know what I need them to focus on. This person, I'm going to have a more empathetic approach. Maybe finding out, you know, what's going on. You know, "I've seen that your performance has dropped a little bit. Talk to me, what's going on with you," as opposed to me starting that conversation with, "You didn't do X, Y, and Z. It affected this. People are upset. Tell me what happened."

I think being able to gauge the audience is very, very important. And as a leader, you need to be able to modify your language to be receptive to the person in front of you. We are leaders. I was taught to call them associates because, Lisett said, we're all in this together. Your success is dependent on my success, and my success is dependent on yours. So, let's work through this. But again, modifying that language to the person in the audience you have in front of you.

And as far as service recovery, something that I took from hospitality is the followup. We could fix the issue in front of us at the moment, and it could be resolved, but we don't know how that person left feeling. So, following up after something has occurred is very, very important.

Host 1: Maybe one last question before you get to our rapid fire. We've asked you today to tell us about what we can learn from hospitality. I also imagine what makes you two great is that you didn't come in thinking you knew it all, given that you weren't from this industry. Can you tell us a little bit about how you learned about healthcare and how you learned about clinicians, for instance, how they work, their sort of intricacies? What was that onboarding, if you will, for you all?

Joanna Casillas: When I first started, that was my biggest fear, is like I do not have any healthcare background. I was expecting all of these clinical terms to be thrown at me, but they weren't. The physicians were very understanding and, if anything, were a little bit laxer than I'm used to. And I think that was my feedback after a year, like, "Joanna is great. But she's very, very professional. We feel like we're not making her comfortable enough" where it was the opposite. They're super, they're making me super comfortable. But after over a decade in hospitality where they drive that into you, remain professional, act professional at all times. It was hard for me to drop that.

Lisett Bringas: One of the things I did early on was I actually invested in learning the role. I had my scrubs on. I spent time with the housekeeper. I would come in on third shift, learn that role. I took the time to educate myself on the different shifts and what the expectations were of each responsibility from a houseman to the housekeeper to the staff that cleans the OR.

So, I think, for me, I continuously keep learning in all aspects from the clinical side to the requirements of environmental services. I feel that's important to invest time with the employee to really understand their frustrations. There's not a day that I don't live here, that I don't learn something.

Host 2: What a great conversation. I would like to say just on behalf of Northwestern Medicine, on behalf of your teams, thank you for all that you do and for who you are as leaders and for being the examples that both of you are in your environments and across our workforce. So, thank you. We've got a couple of rapid fire questions. Lisett, what was your first job?

Lisett Bringas: I made salads at a restaurant at 14.

Host 1: Joanna, who had the greatest influence on you as a leader?

Joanna Casillas: The greatest to this day is Jacqueline Sealey. She was my first manager and she was the one who saw in me that I could keep growing, that I was a life-learner.

Host 2: Lisett, if you hadn't chosen a career in hospitality or healthcare, where might have you land instead?

Lisett Bringas: I would have to say it would've been a passion for dancing. If I would've known that I could have been a professional dancer, that would've been definitely my path or I would've owned my own beauty salon.

Host 1: Last one for both of you. If you had to identify one of your biggest failures so far at Northwestern Medicine in a role, what might that be?

Joanna Casillas: For myself, it's not looking for opportunities sooner. I stayed in the role that I had for four years because I was happy and I achieved a work-life balance. And I didn't know as Northwestern Medicine, the opportunities within the institution. So, not looking for opportunities sooner, not a failure, but maybe a regret

Lisett Bringas: For me, I would have to say biggest failure was focusing strictly on metrics. So, much focus and pressure was put on the throughput when I started in this role. And I think there's nothing more frustrating when you're in an audience and you're, like, their numbers are given to you, but you don't understand what you need to do to get to those numbers.

So that by far, at the beginning was my biggest failure. And then, I changed the mindset. I'm like, "I'm going to engage the whole department to understand how we're going to have the best throughput numbers in Northwestern Medicine."

Host 1: Thank you all very much. I hope you understand that your approach has improved the lives of your colleagues, certainly, obviously our patients. That was what we heard loud and clear when you both were nominated to be a guest with us, is that all these blocking and tackling that you're doing, which is what we talk about a lot, it's simple but not easy, that you just got to do it day in, day out consistently. And what you're doing has certainly made an improvement in people's lives.

Joanna Casillas: Thank you. It was a pleasure. Thank you for having us.

Host 1: Thank you for listening to Anatomy of An Everyday Leader.

Host 2: Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss an episode.