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Angela Rose (Host): Well, hello and welcome to another episode of survivors.org podcast. This episode is sponsored by Color Street, a creative beauty brand with limitless possibilities. I'm your host, Angela Rose, the founder of PAVE. And I am so grateful to have today on our show, Julie Wallach. She is an amazing survivor, advocate, public speaker, published author, and she also is a certified group facilitator. We're excited to chat with her today about her healing journey. Julie, welcome.

Julie Wallach (Guest): Oh, thank you so much for having me, Angela. It's truly an honor. Thank you so much.

Angela Rose (Host): Oh, thank you. I always like to start by talking about you as a person. You know, for some of us as survivors, we sometimes get kind of balled up into this role of survivor, but I want to hear about you as a person. What sets your soul on fire? Tell me about you as a person, Julie.

Julie Wallach (Guest): Well, thanks for asking. You know, it's interesting because I spent so much of my life healing, that that became my identity. And until I did a lot of the deeper work, I really didn't know. I probably wouldn't have been able to answer that question with any kind of clarity. But I can tell you the things that I love. I love, love nature, and I love dogs and I love the people I love. You know, I have a really core group of wonderful people in my life, that's my foundation, you know?

And I road cycle. I was a runner, trail runner and ran on pavement for many, many years, for 30 years or so. And I just took up cycling. And when I was a kid, I loved my bike. My bike got me away from my house and it got me to places that I loved going and exploring and adventuring. And so having cycling as one of my biggest passions now is such a peace and connection back to that healing journey I've been on. But I just have fun. I mean, I'm smiling ear to ear. I feel like a kid in the best way. And I love swimming in the ocean and I love writing poetry and listening to music and singing, even though I suck at singing. I have all these places to find joy and joy used to be this really serious thing that I had to like, you know, kind of work at. And now, it's a state of being, which is just amazing to me. It's the best. I get chills just saying it to you.

Angela Rose (Host): Oh, I love that. What an inspiration you are. And so for those of you that don't know Julie's story, she has kind of a lifetime of healing, as you mentioned. So kind of you're best known for you speaking out bravely against UCLA, abused by a doctor. Maybe you can briefly to that. I want to focus more on the healing today, but if you can just briefly, you know, talk about your experience at UCLA, that would be helpful for our audience.

Julie Wallach (Guest): Absolutely. To give some context and, of course, moving into the healing piece and the life beyond healing, you know, I'm absolutely for that. And thanks for, you know, just mentioning UCLA and what happened. So 20 years ago, I'm 52 years old now. Just before I was 30, I went to a gynecological oncologist and he sexually assaulted me. And I filed a complaint with the medical board at that time. I chased after all of the administrative staff at UCLA, the powers that be, if you will. And they just threw it out. No one listened to me. I was totally ignored and not believed. I don't know if I was believed. Maybe I was, maybe that was the problem.

Anyway, fast forward, through different movements that we have at our, you know, disposal now, and all of the courageous women who have come forward and men who have come forward over the years, a lot of women started speaking out, hundreds of women. And so within this, you know, couple of decades, so much has evolved and transformed with people speaking up and out. And I then was able to really advocate for myself in a deeper and more meaningful way. And I've spoken publicly about it. And, you know, at this point, he'll spend the rest of his life in prison. And, you know, it's been a journey, but there were 200 women who filed complaints and really kind of got to the bottom of this, and who knows how many others there were. And so it's tragic and I'm here to advocate to, you know, really inspire people to speak, if they can. You know, there's no right or wrong way to do this. My experience was that speaking up and out, it's just part of what felt like a healing piece for me, but it's different for everyone.

Angela Rose (Host): And I would love to hear about some of the legislative work that you've done. So out of your story, there was a lot of positive things that happened. I think it's so important for us to realize that a lot of these perpetrators are repeat offenders, maybe not hundreds and hundreds as you've seen in your case. But tell me some about some of the legislative that you were able to do that came out of your experience.

Julie Wallach (Guest): Well, I have to say, when I walked this into this, you know, advocacy, self-advocacy, you know, I had no idea what was to come. But what I did know about myself is that I've always been the one to speak up and out. I was sexually abused by my father. I spoke about it my family system. Everybody sort of did the same thing UCLA did. The systems that are in place made it really difficult to, you know, speak up and out. But I did keep doing that throughout my life. So I had that as a foundation. And then, the law firm that's representing me asked me to speak to the California Senate and judiciary committee to pass a bill specific to this case lifting the statute of limitations for all survivors. So it passed unanimously with bipartisan support. It was really an experience to talk to the California Senate, names I'd heard in the news sort of thing and be connected in a really vulnerable way and share my story transparently. You know, I didn't sort of speak to the political climate of, you know, where I was. I spoke to the truth. And so that was really powerful. Really, really powerful. Very exhausting, I have to say. But it motivated me to continue speaking and moving forward into some kind of lobbying around just lifting statutes of limitations nationwide. It's my passion and what really I feel, for trauma survivors, there should be no time limit to, you know, bringing this to the justice system.

Angela Rose (Host): Absolutely. thank you for your voice and for your courage and for shattering silence and for all the you've work done. I love that about joy in the beginning of this conversation. And I think knowing what you have dealt with, you know, not just at UCLA, but knowing your father was a perpetrator. And so you live this life of joy and I think I would love for our listeners to hear how did you heal. What were some of like the very tangible ways that you were able to find joy after having your trust just broken in so many places?

Julie Wallach (Guest): Thank you. You know, it's a beautiful question and I love that the focus of this is on that, because it's really hard, because, you know, a lot of the times, like I'll read on social media posts about people who have been sexually abused and, you know, how do you get there? How do I do this? And the how becomes sort of really murky and confusing, I think, so the tangible piece is I just think crucial.

What I did initially, I started having flashbacks about, you know, what my father did to me in 1988. There weren't any trauma-informed therapists out there that called themselves that. There were people who understood it. I read the Courage To Heal, which was a book that just sparked so much anxiety in me because it spoke to me so, so deeply and intensely. So I started by investigating and doing research and, you know, there's this sort of top-down idea that we learn intellectually, and then we can kind of drop into our feelings about things.

And initially, when I was starting to heal, that was a big piece of it for me. It was learning, you know, kind of understanding the scope and what this is all about. But as I got a little bit more, I kind of digested the information intellectually. And then, I realized, you know, I'm not actually feeling anything. I'm thinking a lot about it and I'm connecting dots and that's important. But let me go bottom up, let me start dropping in to this deepest part of myself. I feel like we all probably -- I can't speak for everyone. I just know for me that I have a place inside of me that holds, like call it intuition, but I drop in to the deepest kind of quiet part of me where it's sort of all-knowing, right? And I get this understanding like, "Ooh, I'm feeling a little shame. There's a little pocket of shame in there right now." "Ooh. I'm feeling like I'm blaming myself for something that's not my responsibility. Huh." So as I feel the feelings, then I can make the connections to how it relates in my life, how it connects back to childhood. So that's where I am just in my day to day, I can spot check that at the supermarket or in traffic, you know. I can be in my world and do that.

How I got there, the modalities that I've used are just widely. I mean, there's so many. I started, you know, with cognitive behavioral therapy, CBT. I found that, you know, a lot of that was just too intellectual for me. So I started to seek out more somatic work. And in doing that, you know, really kind of connecting to my body, knowing that our body's whole trauma, that work became really important to me. That looked like dancing in front of my mirror, even though it was so uncomfortable. Oh my God. And I love dancing, but I was like, you know, like I could barely move my body because it was an expression of and a release of trauma, shaking our bodies. You know, it's like what animals do. When they're afraid, they shake, right? Shaking is a release. Understanding the connection between my nervous system and how I operate in the world, that I can be quickly startled because I'm in fight or flight or I can be in freeze. And Angela, I tell you, I could look at a coffee cup and say, "Oh, it's right here. I need to pick it up," and I literally feel like I'm in a state of paralysis in freeze mode. So noticing how my body's responding to fight, flight, freeze or fawn, really paying attention to all of that.

As I did more of the somatic work, then I was like, "Okay, you know what, I'm ready," and I just intuitively knew to do body work. So I've had a few different people in my life with whom I feel so safe. And those people, our body healing, you know, kind of they do body work. So it's energy work. There's no verbal exchange. They're, you know, kind of just hovering their hands over me, which was a very vulnerable state for me, especially lying on my back. And I just allowed them to like, you know, we just exchanged energy and that kind of work became so powerful. It quieted me and it gave me pause to just allow energy to heal me without words, beyond the five senses.

Most recently, some of the work that I've been doing, I found I have an amazing neighbor who's also an incest survivor and we just sit outside with our dogs for hours and talk. And I love her so dearly. And she was telling me about this therapist that she has, she was like in Nebraska and, you know, I'm in California and it was during the pandemic. And I thought, "Well, I'll just Zoom him and see how this all works." And he works in shamonic, you know, indigenous sort of work. So he couples modern day therapy in that westernized sense with, you know, indigenous energy work and body work that we can do on Zoom, you know. And what we've done, what he said to me, when we first started was, "You're going to go through a transformation, but you're not going to stop there. You're going to transmute your energy." And I was like, "Huh?" So immediately, I look up transformation versus transmutation and I'm trying to learn and getting intellectualized about it again. But what he told me is that, you know, behaviorally, I'm taking information. Let's say one of the things that was really difficult for me, as much as it was dealing with the perpetrators, my mother didn't protect me. So let's say I'm dealing with, and I'm not just glossing over that, but it's not the time for that. So I'm dealing with all the feelings that come up around why didn't she protect me. You know, all the deep sorrow and grieving and sense of betrayal that I had about my mother. And I can take that, talk it through with my therapist, understand, make some connections to relationships today, all of that stuff. And once I do that, then I can kind of settle into, "Okay, there was pain there. I can grieve. I cry." Lots of crying, lots of crying. Crying is like, "Woof, totally works for me." So crying it out, releasing it, you know, exercising, drinking a lot of water, sleeping as much as I can. All of those things that I need to do to take care of myself. And once I've moved that energy out and through and released, then I can take that energy of sorrow and betrayal and transmute it into this beautiful new understanding of, "Well, I'm a mother. I'm going to use the energy not to shame on my mom. I'm not going to be like her angry energy, but the energy of tenderness and say, "You know what? I'm going to grow my garden of nurturing and warmth. And I'm going to exude this energy in the world of mother maternal energy." That transmutation, it gives me chills every time I talk about it, that is just stunning to me, and I've done it over and over again with different pieces of this healing process. So it's taking energy and saying, "Yes, it's this. Yes, it is," and acknowledging what it is and the pain of it and saying, "But I'm going to channel it into something else that is, you know, beautiful, you know, that it's like pulling the weeds from the garden and growing flowers in their place, you know?

So it's been this incredible thing. So that's a lot of it. And it's not all of it. And I've had to try and that didn't work. EMDR, that didn't work. You know, different things work and don't work. I think trying stuff, you know, on and seeing what works is really crucial.

Angela Rose (Host): Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I think that's so true for other survivors. What works for one person might not work for somebody else. And so I love that you've been open to try new things. And so in the short time that we have together now here, I have a question for you. What advice or what would you say to other survivors that are listening to this that maybe aren't as far on their healing journey as you are? Maybe they're just realizing that they need to choose to heal. So what advice do you have for other survivors that maybe are just starting out on their healing journey?

Julie Wallach (Guest): Well, thanks for that, Angela. I feel like, you know, I immediately just want to start crying for people who are at that place, you know. It can be a crossroads. You know, sometimes it just feels like there is no sense of agency or power of choice. And so I first want to just say to all the survivors who are listening, you know, who might be at the beginning of their path, like I am sending you that warm, maternal love and care. And I believe you. I don't even have to know your story to know that I believe you, you know. And I just am so moved every time I think about and feel for people who are in that place in their lives.

What I would say is, you know, the things that are sort of typical that I would read and think, "How am I supposed to do that?" You know, be gentle with yourself. It's like, "Really? Well, I'm going to eat a lot of ice cream right now, and I'm going to fall asleep on the couch and I'm going to wake up really bummed out. Like, I don't know how to be gentle with myself." so what I would say in real time and what that means in a practical sort of sense is if stuff's coming up and there's this urge to sort of say like, "Nope, it's too much, too much. It's just too painful and I can't," to find a safe support network, to start creating a support network and just imagine it like a garden, you know. What color of flowers do you love? You know, what different types of plants? Do you want to canopy tree? What do you want? Do you want the feeling of, "I need to talk about this stuff"? Do you want someone who's going to sit with you and kind of go through, like, "These are the things you have to do. You're going to write in a journal every day"? What feels like it might work, try some of that stuff. See if there are, you know, affordable kind of therapeutic places out there where you can just kind of tap your toe in and check it out and come from the place if it's possible of like they're not in charge, they're not the ones governing your life. You are. So your journey and healing is yours and you get to choose what is going to work for you.

Try some stuff on, see if it fits. There might be one therapy session you have with one person, and you're like, "No, this person doesn't work for me." Great, you get to move on. You're not stuck with someone. And so if it is therapy, I mean, to me, you know, it was impossible to heal trauma alone. So creating a support network and it might not be family and it might not be current friends and it might not look like it's the people right here right now, but start growing a garden of people, you know, and if that means going on social media and finding some connections to total strangers, you know, check them out, see if they feel safe.

And I really do believe that trauma survivors have had to drop in and read the room and walk into situations and say, "No, this doesn't feel safe," listen to that. You have that. It's in you, you know. It really is very hard sometimes to get to it. But I think that that held me in really good stead and it still does, you know. I didn't always listen to it, but I could hear it, you know?

Angela Rose (Host): That's really sage advice. And I think you hit on something that I feel is so important, is it's so often, you know, as survivors, we feel like our power has been taken away. And so allowing people, like you said, to let them know, like you are in charge, you have the authority and the autonomy over your body to decide your healing process, to be in charge. And I also really loved your mention of healing the shame. Because I feel like if I had a magic wand and I could change anything in the world, I would remove the shame that so many of us survivors we feel because of the way society oftentimes makes us re-traumatized in either the reporting process or seeking support, or as you mentioned, your family, or, you know, UCLA, whatever these institutions that, you know, don't support us in the way that we need to be supported. So I would say just my last question to you is would you want to have been supported? You mentioned obviously your mother didn't protect you, but was their friends? Was there other ways, what would you have wanted from people that you loved in terms of the reaction? So if there's people that are listening that maybe have a friend or a family member that has been impacted by sexual trauma, what are some advice that you give to somebody of what to say or do if somebody discloses to you?

Julie Wallach (Guest): Great question. Great question. The first thing, you know, I say to people and in a sign of solidarity, tender solidarity and support is I believe you. And I'm here and I'm available. You know, I feel like using words like "I'm available," "You have room here to feel the feelings that you feel," "There aren't any feelings that are too big. You know, instead of rushing to grab a tissue, to wipe away their tears, let them cry. You know. If they're snotty and they're just sobbing and there's that kind of tears, let them just release. I feel like sometimes we run to get a tissue and it's symbolic of, "I got to take care or fix, you know, make sure this person is okay." And the truth is they're okay in the midst of really intense feelings. And if they know that, if they feel that from the outside in, and you're saying, "You're okay, I've got you. I can contain this with you and hold this with you," they then can co-regulate and start to feel like, "Oh, wait a minute. I can hold myself through this too, you know. "I didn't die on the other side, like in the process of feeling these intense feelings."

So I feel like in a supportive arena of whether that person has dropped into their feelings or not, to know that they have a safe container. And if that doesn't feel comfortable to that supportive person, that maybe they say, "You know, I can help you make some phone calls to, you know, reach out to a therapist." And we don't all have to hold those intense feelings for our friends and family, but maybe we can make some calls or help with, you know, deciding what kind of support network to put in place." But I do feel like tenderness, you know, really trying not to kind of dial down and shut off the valve, you know, but just to give a safe space for those feelings to come up and out. And a lot of the time that means saying nothing, just holding that safe space and letting them know, you know, you're right there being consistent, hugely important too. But truly it's that tender solidarity of knowing they're not alone, I think, that's been the most incredibly meaningful experience for me to start to build new relationships that way.

Angela Rose (Host): Thank you so much, Julie, for just being such a bright light, for sharing your journey with us today. And for anybody who might be triggered, there is survivors.org here for you. There are so many resources that are out there and we're going to continue to build out our community on survivors.org with discussion forums for us to connect and to be with each other and to share.

So, Julie, I want to thank you for being such a light in the world. And For anybody listening, just remember to please love yourself, support each other, and together we can change the world. Again, this has been another episode of the survivors.org podcast sponsored by Color Street. Thank you so much for listening.