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Intro/Outro: A Content warning for our listeners, general discussions of sexual violence, including impacts of trauma and healing modalities will be discussed. If you need support or resources, please visit survivors.org

Angela Rose: Well, welcome everyone. Thank you so much for joining us for another episode of the Survivors.org Podcast, helping survivors to thrive after trauma. I'm your host, Angela Rose. And this episode is brought to you by Color Street Nails. And Color Street is a creative beauty brand with limitless possibilities. You are in for a treat today. I am so excited to welcome our guest, Dr. Thema Bryant. She's the president elect of the American Psychological Association. She's a minister, she's an author. She's the host of the podcast, Homecoming, which is a mental health podcast to facilitate your journey home to your authentic self.

Ah, I love that. And she has an amazing Twitter feed. Anytime I need a little inspiration or uplift, I always visit her feed and it's just filled with so much inspiration. You are such a light in the world. Welcome to our show, Dr. Bryant, thank you so much.

Dr. Thema: Oh, thank you so much for having me, and you are such a radiant light as well. And I have loved seeing your work over the years and all that you do for survivors. And so glad to be able to reconnect on today.

Angela Rose: Oh, that means so much to me. Thank you. Yes. You were on our board of directors. What, 15 years ago. It's just been such a journey And so thank you for your kind words and for all that you do in the world. So I'd love to hear a little bit about your work using sacred dance and spoken word. One thing we're really passionate about at Pave is looking at how non-traditional modes of healing can really reach you in your soul. And we believe in that mind, body, soul approach, which I know you really bring into your work. So would love to learn a little bit more about how you use sacred dance and spoken word in your practice.

Dr. Thema: Yes, it is wonderful. Both, in my practice, in my research, and then also in my own journey as a survivor, that when we're dealing with trauma, we're often talking about the unspeakable. And not only do we get family pressure and social pressure, not to talk about it, but research also shows that neurologically it's difficult to talk about traumatic events. To retrieve that memory and to speak it, it's very challenging. And so the creative arts, the expressive arts are a wonderful way for us to give voice, to those things, which are hard to name and to speak.

And so I love to use dance. Some people refer to it as embodied healing, or somatic therapy, and Soma means the body. So we find that it's not just a matter of talk therapy because for many, the site of the trauma was in the body. So it's not just affecting how I think about myself, but I am carrying that shock, that terror, that disconnection, actually in my muscles. And so to be able to learn to breath. To be able to learn how to embody agency and action, can really help us to heal and be empowered.

And the beautiful gift with using spoken word and poetry is that you can disguise what you're saying or say it as blatantly as you want to. So the survivor, a trauma informed perspective involves choices. So survivors get to decide how much they want to share. So if I'm writing a poem about a sexual assault or about child abuse or an abusive relationship, I can code it to the level I want to code it and I can come right out and say the things that I want to come right out and say, so it's very empowering.

Angela Rose: Oh, that is so beautiful. And as we all know, there's so many survivors that suffer from PTSD. So do you feel like you've seen changes? We always have these triggered responses, unfortunately after trauma, oftentimes. So have you seen in your practice that using these types of methodologies have helped to reduce triggers?

Dr. Thema: Definitely. So the creative arts, definitely can help reduce a sense of disconnection from yourself, that hyper vigilance, feelings of despair or overwhelm. Helping us to regulate our emotions. And while it's a standalone intervention for some therapists, many therapists integrate it in the other work they do. So in cognitive behavioral therapy, there's a portion of the therapy that is on your narrative. And especially working with children, the narrative part of therapy is usually done with artwork.

So the children will create a book or they'll create a rap song, or they'll create a puppet show that kind of tells their story. And we find really great results with that. There's also something called, narrative therapy, which is us re-authoring our story. Learning to tell my where I center my experience instead of just being a victim that other people do things too, but getting in touch with my emotions, my thoughts, my needs, is very important in terms of our healing and empowerment.

Angela Rose: That is beautiful. Wow. That's powerful. Does that also include like inner child work when you're talking about rewriting your narrative? Does that also have to deal with that?

Dr. Thema: That's right. And so getting in touch with our discarded selves, our silenced selves, our erased selves, our neglected selves, and giving, us permission to show up more fully with all of our layers. We are complicated beings and sometimes we. received messages directly or indirectly that various parts of us are unacceptable. And so really being able to nourish and nurture ourselves so that we can show up more wholly.

Angela Rose: That's so beautiful and I'd love to go down the faith pathway with you because, faith for me, my spiritual awakening was when I was kidnapped in the car. That was for me, that was the moment I felt the closest to God. And for me using faith has really helped me heal. So I'd love to hear from you as a minister, how you've been able to use faith in your own healing journey and in your practice and in your research.

Dr. Thema: Yes, it is really powerful for so many people. We want to highlight the difference between positive religious coping and negative religious coping. And I think people who are not religious are more aware of negative religious coping. So some of them associated with shame and blame and condemnation. And so they would say, clearly that can't be healing or liberating, which is accurate, but what they often are not aware of is positive religious coping of what impact it has.

What a protective factor it is to feel know, and believe that there is something higher than me, that loves me. That cares about me. That wants the best for me. And so what you experienced in that car with the kidnapping, what many survivors talk about, is that when no one else showed up for them, they knew that God or their angels or their, higher self, or ,their ancestors their savior was present with them. and so that sense of not only comfort, but for many people a sense of an ultimate justice, that many of us don't get justice in the natural realm.

And so some people have talked about having some relief in knowing that ultimately this person will have to give an account for what they did or that it is known that even if other people don't believe me, that God was present and knows the truth. And so that can be important on an inward. perspective, but also outwardly, that people's faith has often given them the strength to be able to move forward, the strength to be able to believe in themselves again, and the strength to reclaim their lives.

Angela Rose: Oh, that is so beautiful. I'm a firm believer in guardian angels. In fact, the young girl that was killed by the man who abducted me her name was Julie Angel, and I truly feel and believe that she was there to help me that day. And so I always, like to pay homage and, just always keep her memory alive. So thank you for sharing that. I think that's just so powerful and there's community also. I think it's so important for people to realize that. Difference also between like religion and spirituality, maybe people have had a not so great time with organized religion, but it can be that personal relationship. And I think that's sometimes what people, don't have access to.

Dr. Thema: I did wanna connect with your point about community, that yes, these like internal coping strategies can be beautiful, but also when people find, positive community with, place of faith or spirituality, it can be such a resource. most of us who are therapists, psychologists, mental health professionals. We usually see people once a week, an hour a week. And when you are overwhelmed and dealing with triggers and nightmares, you often need much more presence than that.

And so many times, those who are in your spiritual community or in your religious community, who show up for you all times of day or night. And so, the inner processing is important, but community is also an important part of healing.

Angela Rose: Mm, I love that. Thank you for sharing that. So what advice do you have for other survivors that might just be starting their healing journey? Maybe they've never seen a therapist. Maybe they have no idea what it entails or even how to find the right type of therapy. What would you say to a survivor who's just beginning their healing journey, maybe the trauma happened a long time ago, maybe it was recent, but what advice do you have for other survivors that are just starting their healing journey?

Dr. Thema: So I would say that while, suppression or pushing it down might seem to work in the moment or even for some people, they have been trying to ignore it for a very long time, that suppressing it, ignoring it, is not the same thing as healing it. And that if I cannot face. then I cannot work through it and you don't have to face it and work through it alone. There are those who are trained, and who have a heart for this work, who would want to really bear witness with you and help facilitate that process. And I know it can feel scary and overwhelming.

And I would say that you are worth the discomfort of healing. That growing, there can be growing pains in it because what happens is in the aftermath of trauma, we develop certain ways of living certain ways of relating to people, certain ways of guarding ourselves. And it can be a very constrained and controlled life. And so, to really desire for yourself more freedom. More breath, more connection. And to know you are worthy of that and that you, can give yourself permission to make use of the support to reclaim those parts of yourself.

Angela Rose: I love that. And what a beautiful segue to this notion of worthiness and workaholism. So I listened to your most recent podcast and really resonated with me because through my healing journey, one of my coping mechanisms has been workaholism. And so I'm really working on being very conscious about that. And so I really got a lot from that podcast and would love to hear your thoughts on how a lot of survivors probably do to issues of worthiness, that you get your worthiness from work, and how maybe we can work to heal that in our lives? But I've seen that not only in myself, but other survivors that I've worked with, that we just pour ourselves all in and, would love to hear your thoughts on that.

Dr. Thema: Yes. Thank you for raising that. I think that busyness, often gets overlooked as a coping strategy. We point to people who are abusing substances or people who are self-harming in more visible ways and we can easily say, oh wow. That must be related to the trauma. But when stillness is difficult, When we are driven in such a way that it really is like perfectionism, meaning it's never enough. Are you ever able to celebrate your wins? Are you ever able to be still without guilt?

Do you feel like you have to earn a break? That you have to do a million things and be exhausted and then say, now I deserve a break and then very quickly jump back up? And so, learning To be still and to know, that I'm enough, that is an important part of the healing. So I'm not perpetually trying to convince other people I'm enough. And I'm not trying to convince myself that sitting still, doing absolutely nothing. Nothing. I am already enough.

Angela Rose: That is so beautiful. I love your notion of rising and thriving. So I'd love to hear from you. What does that mean to rise and to thrive?

Dr. Thema: Yes. So many times in therapy, there's a focus on what we call symptom cessation. So, getting rid of these negative symptoms. And so you might have like, less panic attacks, you might, have less emotional eating. You might improve your. but that is still not necessarily living. So when I talk about from surviving to thriving, thriving is when I'm not just focused on addressing my symptoms, but I'm actually focused on my purpose, my identity, my joy, my possibility, my relationships.

That's a full life, an abundant life, not just a life spent dealing with the aftermath of the broken pieces. Eve Ensler talks about this when she says, women are here to do so much more than heal from the things people have done to us. And if we could utilize our energy and time to build, to create, to write to manifest. How amazing that would be. And so for each of us, I, encourage thinking about, your sense of purpose and fulfillment, and not just defining ourselves by our worst experiences.

Angela Rose: I love that I've been listening a lot to Michael Beckwith from the agape organization about life visioning lately. And that, really resonates. I think that's so beautiful. Well, thank you so much. Tell us about your book that just came out in March, Homecoming. Tell us about the purpose and tell us about what folks can expect?

Dr. Thema: Yes, Homecoming, Overcome Fear and Trauma to Reclaim Your Whole Authentic Self is about the reality that trauma disconnects us from ourselves. we can be disconnected from our emotions. We can be, disconnected from our dreams. We can be disconnected from what is healthy for. And so, to come home to myself is to reclaim myself to reparent myself, to nourish myself. And I talk about what are some of the signs you're in need of a homecoming, so people can recognize that disconnection and the different ways it shows up. We talk about a number of tools for your journey of reconnection, including building self confidence, spirituality, community care and self care.

And then I talk about some of the major potholes that we face in that journey. And those potholes include working in a toxic work environment, being a child abuse, survivor, experiencing visible and invisible losses. And the big one that many mental health professionals don't talk about is oppression. And looking at the ways in which, discrimination and stereotypes, have affected your mental health and affected your life in general, so that we can have the clarity and the vision and the support to fully realize who we are.

Angela Rose: Oh, beautiful. Oh, you are such a light in this world and I can't wait to get your book. Thank you so much for your time today. And how can people find you and follow you on social? Can you give us your website and how to find you?

Dr. Thema: Yeah. So the website is Doctorthema.com and on Twitter and Instagram, Dr. Thema. On Instagram, there's a period Dr. Period Thema. And just this summer, when the book came out, I joined TikTok. So you can find me on TikTok as Dr. Thema as well.

Angela Rose: Beautiful. Look for you on TikTok. Well, thank you so much. What a light you are. Thank you for all that you do for the world. And I am so grateful that all of you joined us today. I hope you feel as inspired and as uplifted as I do joining us here with Dr. Thema Bryant today. So thank you again for joining us for another episode of Survivors.org Podcast, helping survivors to thrive after trauma. Again, I'm your host, Angela Rosen. This episode was brought to you by Color Street Nails, a creative beauty brand with limitless possibilities. Until we see each other next time, please remember to love yourself, respect and support each other, and together we can change the world. Thank you.

For all survivors and their loved ones tuning in, remember that you are not alone and it's not your fault. If you need support or resources, please visit survivors.org.

Okay. Outro for all survivors and their loved ones tuning in. Please remember that you are not alone and it's not your fault. If you need support or resources, please visit us at survivors.org.