Maggie McKay (Host): Like the song says, breaking up is hard to do. But until you experience a breakup, you have no idea how hard. The good news is there are ways to heal from a breakup. As psychiatrist, Dr. Seth Lapic will discuss with us today.

Welcome to Flourish, a podcast from Prisma Health. I'm Maggie McKay. Thank you so much for being here today, Dr. Lapic. Would you please introduce yourself?

Seth Lapic, MD: Certainly, and thank you for having me. I'm Dr. Seth Lapic. I have been in psychiatry for about 10 years. And I'm currently working in our Inpatient Psychiatry Department.

Host: So, is a relationship breakup a form of trauma?

Seth Lapic, MD: It could be, if the breakup is distressing enough. Possibly, if it's a sudden breakup, it could be a form of trauma. There are some studies where they surveyed people beforehand to see what their thoughts would be about possibly a future breakup. And then like all good researchers, they waited until the people broke up to resurvey them. And a lot of people actually thought in the questions while they were still in the relationship, that the breakup would be a lot worse than it actually ended up being. But I think the main thing, though, is still having a feeling that the experience of the relationship had purpose, even if you have to create that purpose on your own. Having support from others is also going to reduce that risk that this breakup might become a traumatic experience for you.

Host: And how do you begin to overcome the pain and the turmoil that accompanies it?

Seth Lapic, MD: I think the first thing is just to take it as a learning experience. You might have just a fine meaning in that pain. Another thing you can do is just get back to the things that you might have neglected while you were in that relationship. A lot of people will say that there are a lot of things that they used to enjoy doing, whether it be going for walks or whatnot, that they really got away from while they were in a relationship because maybe their partner didn't enjoy that. So, rediscovering the things that you like to do and that you might have enjoyed that you forgot about doing.

Host: Sadly, Dr. Lapic, I have a lot of experience in this department, and some of my friends too because we dated for a long time. But you always know when someone broke up, because they get back in touch with you after you haven't heard from them in a while. So, there's that. You can reconnect with your friends, you know, because you've been in a relationship. So, I'm sure it's different for everybody, but how long does it take to heal?

Seth Lapic, MD: You're exactly right. It's going to be different for everyone. It's important to remember that we are social creatures. And so whether that relationship was going well or not, it may be a mixed response, but you did lose a connection. So, you're going to have some type of response. Some people are initially excited. You know, they say, "Okay. I was excited for this to end. I'm glad it's finally over." And then, you know, a few days later, a few weeks later, they may realize they're starting to miss that connection, because they were just around that person a lot. And so, it's really going to fluctuate based off the person, the type of experience it was. I think the main thing, though, is to look at how is it impacting you or possibly impairing you.

Host: And you mentioned it being unexpected. Does that impact the healing?

Seth Lapic, MD: It's certainly possible. Loss in general, it can be harder when it's unexpected. That unexpectedness of that loss can certainly give us a feeling that we kind of lost control of the situation. So, looking for ways to maybe find or regain control in a situation where we feel like maybe we lost control.

Host: And this may sound dramatic, but can breakup trauma lead to conditions like PTSD?

Seth Lapic, MD: So, I think it sounds dramatic, but I think that's certainly a really valid question. I would say rarely. I think more often than not, it's going to be an adjustment disorder. When we're thinking of the criteria for PTSD, we're typically thinking of something that caused exposure to actual or threatened death, serious injury, sexual violence. So, most of the time, that's not going to be occurring for the actual breakup. But you might see some similar symptoms following a breakup that might overlap with PTSD. So, some of those things that you might see that sound like PTSD, that are criteria for PTSD are distress at reminders of the relationship or the breakup. You might be wanting to avoid some of those reminders, whether they be people, places, situations, experiences ,having negative beliefs about yourself. Am I the cause? So, blaming yourself. Those are certainly some things that we do see in PTSD that you might feel afterwards. But again, because we don't have that exposure to actual threatened death or sexual violence, serious injury, technically, it wouldn't be PTSD.

Host: So, what are signs that you're not healing well?

Seth Lapic, MD: It could be different for everyone. You might not be accepting of the fact that the relationship's over. It still may encompass your entire day, become your sole focus, that you're fixated on this breakup or lack of a relationship. It can start to impair your daily life where normal routines are being thrown off because of this breakup. You mentioned that some people may reach out to people that they had kind of neglected during these relationships. But other people, it may worsen their social activities where they become isolative, staying to their selves, they're not getting out more. Maybe they're not enjoying the things they used to do in life, or maybe they're starting to have thoughts that, "Hey, maybe life just isn't worth living without this person."

Host: So, when should you seek counseling?

Seth Lapic, MD: I think when you certainly start to see some of those symptoms that, "Hey, maybe I'm not healing as well as I could be." I think if you're seeing some impairments in your day to day, especially if you're having thoughts that maybe life isn't worth living anymore.

Host: So when it comes to holidays like Valentine's Day and anniversaries, can those be triggers for emotional distress related to breakups?

Seth Lapic, MD: I see a lot of people try to avoid those holidays. I think it's because, for some people, they are triggers or they're just a harder day to have. And so, yes, they can be triggers for some people. But I think it's important to know and understand, if we think that it may be a trigger for us, to be proactive about that. And so, some ways you might do that is you might want to express to others, even if they're in a relationship or not, that, "Hey, this upcoming day is going to be harder for me." That helps us to realize that, "Hey, we're not really alone in these scenarios." There are a lot of other people that are feeling similar ways. And maybe you're able to celebrate those days with people that are in the same situation. You also can celebrate that day, like Valentine's Day, with yourself. And just practice loving yourself. You don't have to love somebody else to celebrate that day. A lot of people like Valentine's Day, because they like the act of giving gifts or receiving gifts. And so, you could give somebody else a gift to still partake in that celebration or give yourself a gift. Again, I don't feel like you need to actually be in a relationship to celebrate Valentine's Day. If we look at St. Paddy's Day, which is right after it, how many people say that they're Irish for a day? And so, people celebrate St. Paddy's Day and that most people aren't Irish. So, everyone can feel loved, even if it's us loving ourselves to be able to celebrate that day.

Host: So true. I like the giving yourself a gift idea any day. So, what are some practical strategies and insights to help someone navigate those kinds of events?

Seth Lapic, MD: So, I think not trying to ignore the event. Looking back at it and trying to find purpose in those painful memories so that we can use it as a learning experience to help us move forward. Also, you know, with these events, they may be painful, but understand that they're just a chapter in our book of life. They may be a longer chapter than others, but they're still just one part of it. And so, we don't have to let these painful events be our entire book. And so, working then to create new chapters, which may be creating new memories on Valentine's day or these anniversaries. They might help to balance out some of those negative connotations that you have with these days that otherwise might be a trigger or be painful for you.

Host: And how can friends and family help a person who's going through or has gone through a major breakup like, you know, divorce?

Seth Lapic, MD: Of course. Friends and family can be super supportive that's going to help a lot. Listen to somebody, make them feel heard, make them feel like you're there for them. I think those are just the basics, but also looking for some of those warning signs that we had mentioned that maybe my friend or my family member is not healing very well so that you can maybe be the one that leads them to getting help if they're not healing well.

And then also, if you're able to work with them to maybe help them find purpose in that pain, you may know the person very well, and maybe help them to see something in a situation that they're not seeing themself. They'll help them make that into a learning experience.

Host: I really like what you said about knowing that it's just a chapter in your book of life. It's not forever, which it always feels like at the time.

Seth Lapic, MD: Absolutely. But we want to make it a learning experience for that chapter. We don't want to keep reading the same chapter over and over again. So again, finding that purpose and that learning point so that the next chapter reads differently.

Host: That's so true, because sometimes we find the same type of person over and over and have the same results over and over. So, you're right. You have to see what didn't work and why, and don't repeat it, I guess, is what you're saying. So, is there anything else you'd like to add that we didn't cover that you think people need to know?

Seth Lapic, MD: I think that's a great summary of what people may be feeling afterwards, some of the signs they may be looking for, and how we work to not make it a painful or traumatic experience.

Host: Well, this has been so informative. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise, Dr. Lapic.

Seth Lapic, MD: Of course, anytime.

Host: Again, that's Dr. Seth Lapic. And to learn more, please visit prismahealth.org/flourish. And if you found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and check out our entire podcast library for topics of interest to you.

Maggie McKay (Host): I'm Maggie McKay. Thanks for listening. This is Flourish, a podcast from Prisma Health.