A New Approach to Mental Health: Part 2
If you're looking for mental health services, where do you start? Linda Lindsey and Christopher Tafelski, ProMedica Employee Assistance Program (EAP), talk about different mental health providers and how you can find the right one for you or a loved one.
Featured Speakers:
Linda holds a bachelor's degree in psychology and a master's degree in agency counseling from the University of Toledo. She is licensed in Ohio as a licensed independent clinical counselor and chemical dependency counselor. She is a certified employee assistance professional. Linda has over 30 years of experience working with individuals, couples and families, with over 20 years as an internal health care EAP consultant. She has experience providing human resource training and consultation in corporate, industrial and health care settings; regarding drug and alcohol policy, family issues, supervisory skills, stress management, sexual harassment, diversity, workplace violence prevention and other topics of interest to employers and their employees. Currently, she is a manager with ProMedica Employee Assistance Program.
Christopher Tafelski, LPCC, CEAP | Linda Lindsey, LPCC-S, LICDC-CS, CEAP
Christopher is a licensed professional counselor at ProMedica Employee Assistance Program (EAP), performing clinical tasks, presentations, coaching and case management. Christopher comes with 25+ years of management experience working with staff sized 6-120 people in various business settings. He earned his Master of Science degree in mental health counseling from Capella University and is a registered member of Chi Upsilon Chi (a national program for scholastic and professional excellence). Christopher is a two-time presenter for the All Ohio Counselor Conference and a three-time co-presenter with the Employer Association wellness group at the Toledo Human Resources Area Conference. He is an active member in the NW Ohio EAPA, currently serving as the President Past. His areas of specialty include depression, anxiety, marital/relationship therapy, leadership coaching, post-traumatic stress, stress management and grief counseling. Christopher is certified in PE-PC (prolonged exposure) therapy and was trained by the Veterans Administration trainers. Lastly, Christopher enjoys spending time with family and friends, travel, and is an avid golfer.Linda holds a bachelor's degree in psychology and a master's degree in agency counseling from the University of Toledo. She is licensed in Ohio as a licensed independent clinical counselor and chemical dependency counselor. She is a certified employee assistance professional. Linda has over 30 years of experience working with individuals, couples and families, with over 20 years as an internal health care EAP consultant. She has experience providing human resource training and consultation in corporate, industrial and health care settings; regarding drug and alcohol policy, family issues, supervisory skills, stress management, sexual harassment, diversity, workplace violence prevention and other topics of interest to employers and their employees. Currently, she is a manager with ProMedica Employee Assistance Program.
Transcription:
A New Approach to Mental Health: Part 2
Scott Webb: In part two of our series on a new approach to mental health today, Linda Lindsey and Christopher Tafelski are joining me again to explain the differences in mental health providers. And offer their expertise on how best to find a provider that fits and meets our needs. Welcome to Happily Ever After 40, a podcast brought to you by ProMedica, where we discuss midlife health and wellbeing. I'm Scott Webb. It's great to be back on with both of you for part two of this new approach to mental health. In part one, we talked about the stigma and is it changing and how do we know when we, or someone we love needs a mental health professional?
And today we're gonna talk more about, choosing those providers. How do we know the differences between the different types of providers and how do we choose one? So Linda, I'll start with you this time. Tell us about the differences between mental health providers.
Linda Lindsey: Yes, there's a lot of confusion. A lot of times people will say, I need to see a psychiatrist when they call. And Chris and I are employee assistance professionals. So we are counselors that are in the workplace that help the employees and their families with their concerns. So oftentimes people overlook us and think, oh, I need to go to see someone in the community. And right now one of the challenges that people are having is that the weight has been so long because like we shared before, we actually have more people that are seeking services than we have people providing the services.
So a starting point I would always tell people is most companies have an employee assistance professional, an EAP, and to start with them because they can help navigate you through this process because they are our life coaches. And they are people that typically don't work with mental health issues, but they often work with leadership skills, health goals, or self-improvement. They're like a coach. That help you achieve your life satisfaction goals. Then there's a counselor or social worker.
They are typically master level clinicians that help people with self-improvement goals, but also help you with mental health issues like depression, anxiety. But we also work with just like plain old stress and work stress. Those are common too, or Marital, that people come in for. If someone is needing a psychologist, oftentimes that's because they need some testing done. Maybe they wanna rule out some ADD, maybe they have a learning disability that needs addressed and the psychiatrist is a medical doctor for mental health and they typically don't do counseling. They see people to help them find medications that will help with their mental health issues.
Christopher Tafelski: And I think to go in there too, because I think the other one we hear a lot about is, you know, this mental health study showed this. A lot of those folks are psychologists and I think that's another one of those areas that. often gets misconstrued of like, who would, who does those studies and whatnot. I think psychologists, they do a lot of testing, a lot of studying and looking for answers behind the scenes of why, but they don't necessarily help with the why.
Scott Webb: Yeah, I see what you mean. And I was thinking about the list of life coach, counselor, therapist, and so on. I was like, your head starts to spin a little bit. And Chris, I'm wondering, how do folks you know, choose the right provider? Do they use, , word of mouth, social media? I'm sure you have some suggestions about making sure you find the right provider for us.
Christopher Tafelski: Yes. Yes. I think that is a very difficult process and in a current environment, as Linda said it, it's even more of a challenge because often finding just an opening is a difficult portion. As Linda said, I think starting with your EAP is a good place because often they're connected with other therapists in your area, and they can kind of guide you through that process of this is what's gonna fit. But really the first step is one, let's match insurance. Right? Let's get the easy one out of the way. But I really think about what is it that you're needing help with and finding somebody who has an expert in that particular field.
So, for instance, I just had somebody call up and say, hey, I'm looking for this particular therapist to see that they're at this location. And I said, well, they're great for substance abuse and if you were having an alcohol issue, or a substance use disorder, some sort be perfect for you. But it's not the right fit. So a lot of times it's looking for credentials that fit that area. If you're experiencing trauma, for instance, finding a therapist that has a specialization in trauma therapy depression, anxiety are kind of typically most counselors, social workers, therapists will be able to address those things for you.
But the more you niche you get, I think of like, you know, for instance, bipolar or any kind of, , personality disorder. Those are more specialized therapists we want to look for. So we start looking for credentials as a second part of it. Really trying to find the right person for them. And I think the other thing is personality, right? We gotta find the person that you connect with. It's a trust thing with therapists. You're going and it pouring out. Your inner more self to this person and you've gotta be able to trust them.
So I think that's a big thing, looking around, shopping around and talking to the staff of like, hey, this is kind of my basic personality. Who would maybe be a fit for me? The people that are the reception area, they know the therapists. They're gonna be, how they help guide you through that process of, it sounds more like this, I think even, do you wanna see a man or a woman? You know, we don't think about that until we get there and they're like, oh, this doesn't. It may not be a preference and that's okay, or maybe somebody who's older or somebody who's younger.
I know I have clients who are in their teens that for some reason love me. Linda says I resonate well with them. I think it's because I tell a lot of dad jokes, but I think, you know, other times they need somebody who is younger than I am. I think of our team is made up with folks who are younger and I can't give them that younger aspect. I have young nieces and nephew. But goodness gracious. My kids are adults now. So I necessarily can't resonate with always the young folks all the time. But finding that therapist that works for you is a big deal in terms of finding credentials, of course, insurance, and then personality.
Scott Webb: Yeah. And Linda my son saw someone when he was around 16 or so, was just having some issues. He was a bit of a smaller kid and he struggled mentally and physically. And to Chris's point, we were able to find someone, he wanted to speak with a man and he wanted to speak with someone who was a little bit closer in age and just the way Chris was taking us through this. All right, well, let's check our insurance, right? Let's check his credentials, make sure he is the right person in terms of that list of what everybody does. And then ultimately it was about being in the room and that fit and whether he felt comfortable opening up to this person.
And so I can totally understand what Chris is saying. And I guess the question for you is, the million dollar question is what do we do if the fit isn't right? Like we've done all our due diligence and we get there in the room, we go, oh wait, this isn't working for me. So what do we do in those situations? And then how do we sort of course correct?
Linda Lindsey: Well, I think one of the starting points is to have an honest conversation with your counselor because if you can get through this, you may have a wonderful relationship with that person where you're able to find out that they're able to help you change. And counseling can sometimes feel uncomfortable. And so it may be not necessarily the counselor, but it may be ourselves that says, oh, I'm a little nervous and, I don't know if I wanna do that again. Versus going back in and saying, last session I felt really nervous and I didn't know if we're gonna be able to work on these goals together. And have an honest conversation with that counselor as a starting point, because it may or may not be able to be resolved, but you don't know unless you take that first step.
Christopher Tafelski: I think part of it maybe also is knowing the process of when you get into counseling. I wanna say I love what our colleague, Tally Gollogly, who was on this podcast before, he said, going in with the mindset that you can do this is important. And I think when you walk in with that mindset of, I'm powerful not to do this as a big start for you, but the first, usually intake session is just that, it's just intake. You're just answering a lot of questions and what we call them, the bio psychosocial. We're asking a lot of background questions that really may necessarily not relate directly to the problem initially.
But it gives us some idea of what's going on to help us understand the whole problem. And so sometimes with the first session, I always tell people, chalk it up to being just a lot of question and answer and you may not have an idea if you fit or not. Typically, I always use a rule of three. If you've done three sessions and your gut. , this is not the right person had that conversation like Linda said. But I think the next step is to also kind of go, Hey, I don't feel like we're working on my goals. because this is your time. They work for you.
Have that courage to say, I don't know if you're working on my goals, can we readdress this? And if by the next session it's still not there, it's time to look for somebody new. But I think as a provider, this is also, the other part I think that needs to be thought about is when a client walks into my door, and we want to help everybody, I always say, I'd love to be the person that helps every single person. But the one thing is therapists. We also have to have the knowledge and wherewithal, and this is where I think some of the counselors do struggle a little bit. Is we have to have the wherewithal to go, I don't think I'm a fit for you because I don't have that expertise.
If somebody comes into my door and says, Chris, I have an eating disorder. I can honestly say, I can help you with other things, but I will tell you that's something that I'm not as familiar with and I need to understand those limitations. Now, you as the person may go, you know what, but I really like you and I. And I'm willing to work past that. You don't necessarily know all this and I want to still work with you, and that's okay, but just know that person may not have the expertise that you're looking for too.
So it kind of goes both ways, right? Where the provider has to recognize that they may not be the fit as much as the person that comes in they may not feel like they're a fit for them, and it's okay both for you to. I don't think this is working. That's a tough thing to say to people sometimes.
Scott Webb: It is. Sure.
Linda Lindsey: And I think one of the things to add into it is that it's okay to change, you know, it's okay to change providers. The main step is taking the baby step of making that first appointment, making that first phone call. And then if you've done these things and it's not a match, it's okay. Move on. It doesn't mean that, hey, I've been to counseling and it'll never work. It's like, oh no. We've all gone to clubs and associations and sometimes you had to go more than once before you felt like you fit in, but other times you're like, oh no, I'm never gonna do that again. And that's okay , and you can make another choice and you can still address your goals and you can still have success.
Christopher Tafelski: And the other thing too is it may not be that you aren't making progress right away cuz you're just learning to know them and you like them, but maybe long term at some point in time, the other thing it's also okay to change for is if you don't feel like your goals are progressing still. If you're like maybe 6, 7, 8, 10 sessions in and you were doing well initially and then you feel like, geez, I'm kind of feeling like I'm not moving again, had that conversation, but it's also, it's okay to change later on too.
Sometimes people need to have one problem solved with the first therapist and they need to go to a second therapist because they need other issues have popped up. So it's also okay to change, , maybe you were making good progress. Like, you talked about your son. Maybe he was, starts out and he's doing great and he's getting some esteem issues being billed and he's like, geez, you know what? But some of my other goals aren't being met and it's okay to make that.
Scott Webb: Yeah. Other stuff. Sure. Yeah, it's really interesting. And course as a dad, Chris, I can appreciate the dad jokes. But you were talking about just that initial visit. And what the provider did with my son is they sat down on the floor and they played shoots and ladders, which of course was well beneath both of their age levels, but they just sat down and they just played a game. And they just talked to each other and got to know each other to find out if it was gonna be a good fit for both of them.
And even during Covid, sort of pivoted as probably everybody did. And my son was doing visits with him, video visits, telehealth visits, and that seemed to work as well. I guess when you find that fit, when it seems right for both parties and the patient, the client, in this case, my son was progressing, you do what you have to do, right?
Linda Lindsey: Yes. I just wanna make a mark on the video chat thing. I will say I've always loved video services. I've been doing this, you know, only for about a decade. And the one thing that I always thought, this is the kind of the future, , there's video visits, but they weren't really embraced until we were forced to embrace them. And it was amazing people are doing this and here's, this is an interesting ti but at least in my thought process, the people who like video chats typically more my age. The younger folks don't like it as much because that's what I do with my friends, right? I talk video, chat with my friends, and I want to talk to a therapist. I want to see them in person. So there is a weird, like one off that's happened and we've noticed, and kind of research is backing that of you know us my age folks, we like it.
Scott Webb: Yeah. And it's like if there are any silver linings to Covid, we've sort of embraced these video visits, even hopefully some of the younger people. And also we're talking more about mental health. And how to address mental health issues, how to choose professionals, how to find the right fit and all of that. And we've certainly done that here in parts one and part two. So thank you again. Hopefully we'll get to speak again. You both stay well.
Christopher Tafelski: You as well.
Linda Lindsey: Thank you.
Scott Webb: And for more information, please visit promedica.org. And if you found this podcast helpful, please do so on your social media. Thanks again for listening. I'm Scott Webb, and until next time, stay Happily Ever After 40.
A New Approach to Mental Health: Part 2
Scott Webb: In part two of our series on a new approach to mental health today, Linda Lindsey and Christopher Tafelski are joining me again to explain the differences in mental health providers. And offer their expertise on how best to find a provider that fits and meets our needs. Welcome to Happily Ever After 40, a podcast brought to you by ProMedica, where we discuss midlife health and wellbeing. I'm Scott Webb. It's great to be back on with both of you for part two of this new approach to mental health. In part one, we talked about the stigma and is it changing and how do we know when we, or someone we love needs a mental health professional?
And today we're gonna talk more about, choosing those providers. How do we know the differences between the different types of providers and how do we choose one? So Linda, I'll start with you this time. Tell us about the differences between mental health providers.
Linda Lindsey: Yes, there's a lot of confusion. A lot of times people will say, I need to see a psychiatrist when they call. And Chris and I are employee assistance professionals. So we are counselors that are in the workplace that help the employees and their families with their concerns. So oftentimes people overlook us and think, oh, I need to go to see someone in the community. And right now one of the challenges that people are having is that the weight has been so long because like we shared before, we actually have more people that are seeking services than we have people providing the services.
So a starting point I would always tell people is most companies have an employee assistance professional, an EAP, and to start with them because they can help navigate you through this process because they are our life coaches. And they are people that typically don't work with mental health issues, but they often work with leadership skills, health goals, or self-improvement. They're like a coach. That help you achieve your life satisfaction goals. Then there's a counselor or social worker.
They are typically master level clinicians that help people with self-improvement goals, but also help you with mental health issues like depression, anxiety. But we also work with just like plain old stress and work stress. Those are common too, or Marital, that people come in for. If someone is needing a psychologist, oftentimes that's because they need some testing done. Maybe they wanna rule out some ADD, maybe they have a learning disability that needs addressed and the psychiatrist is a medical doctor for mental health and they typically don't do counseling. They see people to help them find medications that will help with their mental health issues.
Christopher Tafelski: And I think to go in there too, because I think the other one we hear a lot about is, you know, this mental health study showed this. A lot of those folks are psychologists and I think that's another one of those areas that. often gets misconstrued of like, who would, who does those studies and whatnot. I think psychologists, they do a lot of testing, a lot of studying and looking for answers behind the scenes of why, but they don't necessarily help with the why.
Scott Webb: Yeah, I see what you mean. And I was thinking about the list of life coach, counselor, therapist, and so on. I was like, your head starts to spin a little bit. And Chris, I'm wondering, how do folks you know, choose the right provider? Do they use, , word of mouth, social media? I'm sure you have some suggestions about making sure you find the right provider for us.
Christopher Tafelski: Yes. Yes. I think that is a very difficult process and in a current environment, as Linda said it, it's even more of a challenge because often finding just an opening is a difficult portion. As Linda said, I think starting with your EAP is a good place because often they're connected with other therapists in your area, and they can kind of guide you through that process of this is what's gonna fit. But really the first step is one, let's match insurance. Right? Let's get the easy one out of the way. But I really think about what is it that you're needing help with and finding somebody who has an expert in that particular field.
So, for instance, I just had somebody call up and say, hey, I'm looking for this particular therapist to see that they're at this location. And I said, well, they're great for substance abuse and if you were having an alcohol issue, or a substance use disorder, some sort be perfect for you. But it's not the right fit. So a lot of times it's looking for credentials that fit that area. If you're experiencing trauma, for instance, finding a therapist that has a specialization in trauma therapy depression, anxiety are kind of typically most counselors, social workers, therapists will be able to address those things for you.
But the more you niche you get, I think of like, you know, for instance, bipolar or any kind of, , personality disorder. Those are more specialized therapists we want to look for. So we start looking for credentials as a second part of it. Really trying to find the right person for them. And I think the other thing is personality, right? We gotta find the person that you connect with. It's a trust thing with therapists. You're going and it pouring out. Your inner more self to this person and you've gotta be able to trust them.
So I think that's a big thing, looking around, shopping around and talking to the staff of like, hey, this is kind of my basic personality. Who would maybe be a fit for me? The people that are the reception area, they know the therapists. They're gonna be, how they help guide you through that process of, it sounds more like this, I think even, do you wanna see a man or a woman? You know, we don't think about that until we get there and they're like, oh, this doesn't. It may not be a preference and that's okay, or maybe somebody who's older or somebody who's younger.
I know I have clients who are in their teens that for some reason love me. Linda says I resonate well with them. I think it's because I tell a lot of dad jokes, but I think, you know, other times they need somebody who is younger than I am. I think of our team is made up with folks who are younger and I can't give them that younger aspect. I have young nieces and nephew. But goodness gracious. My kids are adults now. So I necessarily can't resonate with always the young folks all the time. But finding that therapist that works for you is a big deal in terms of finding credentials, of course, insurance, and then personality.
Scott Webb: Yeah. And Linda my son saw someone when he was around 16 or so, was just having some issues. He was a bit of a smaller kid and he struggled mentally and physically. And to Chris's point, we were able to find someone, he wanted to speak with a man and he wanted to speak with someone who was a little bit closer in age and just the way Chris was taking us through this. All right, well, let's check our insurance, right? Let's check his credentials, make sure he is the right person in terms of that list of what everybody does. And then ultimately it was about being in the room and that fit and whether he felt comfortable opening up to this person.
And so I can totally understand what Chris is saying. And I guess the question for you is, the million dollar question is what do we do if the fit isn't right? Like we've done all our due diligence and we get there in the room, we go, oh wait, this isn't working for me. So what do we do in those situations? And then how do we sort of course correct?
Linda Lindsey: Well, I think one of the starting points is to have an honest conversation with your counselor because if you can get through this, you may have a wonderful relationship with that person where you're able to find out that they're able to help you change. And counseling can sometimes feel uncomfortable. And so it may be not necessarily the counselor, but it may be ourselves that says, oh, I'm a little nervous and, I don't know if I wanna do that again. Versus going back in and saying, last session I felt really nervous and I didn't know if we're gonna be able to work on these goals together. And have an honest conversation with that counselor as a starting point, because it may or may not be able to be resolved, but you don't know unless you take that first step.
Christopher Tafelski: I think part of it maybe also is knowing the process of when you get into counseling. I wanna say I love what our colleague, Tally Gollogly, who was on this podcast before, he said, going in with the mindset that you can do this is important. And I think when you walk in with that mindset of, I'm powerful not to do this as a big start for you, but the first, usually intake session is just that, it's just intake. You're just answering a lot of questions and what we call them, the bio psychosocial. We're asking a lot of background questions that really may necessarily not relate directly to the problem initially.
But it gives us some idea of what's going on to help us understand the whole problem. And so sometimes with the first session, I always tell people, chalk it up to being just a lot of question and answer and you may not have an idea if you fit or not. Typically, I always use a rule of three. If you've done three sessions and your gut. , this is not the right person had that conversation like Linda said. But I think the next step is to also kind of go, Hey, I don't feel like we're working on my goals. because this is your time. They work for you.
Have that courage to say, I don't know if you're working on my goals, can we readdress this? And if by the next session it's still not there, it's time to look for somebody new. But I think as a provider, this is also, the other part I think that needs to be thought about is when a client walks into my door, and we want to help everybody, I always say, I'd love to be the person that helps every single person. But the one thing is therapists. We also have to have the knowledge and wherewithal, and this is where I think some of the counselors do struggle a little bit. Is we have to have the wherewithal to go, I don't think I'm a fit for you because I don't have that expertise.
If somebody comes into my door and says, Chris, I have an eating disorder. I can honestly say, I can help you with other things, but I will tell you that's something that I'm not as familiar with and I need to understand those limitations. Now, you as the person may go, you know what, but I really like you and I. And I'm willing to work past that. You don't necessarily know all this and I want to still work with you, and that's okay, but just know that person may not have the expertise that you're looking for too.
So it kind of goes both ways, right? Where the provider has to recognize that they may not be the fit as much as the person that comes in they may not feel like they're a fit for them, and it's okay both for you to. I don't think this is working. That's a tough thing to say to people sometimes.
Scott Webb: It is. Sure.
Linda Lindsey: And I think one of the things to add into it is that it's okay to change, you know, it's okay to change providers. The main step is taking the baby step of making that first appointment, making that first phone call. And then if you've done these things and it's not a match, it's okay. Move on. It doesn't mean that, hey, I've been to counseling and it'll never work. It's like, oh no. We've all gone to clubs and associations and sometimes you had to go more than once before you felt like you fit in, but other times you're like, oh no, I'm never gonna do that again. And that's okay , and you can make another choice and you can still address your goals and you can still have success.
Christopher Tafelski: And the other thing too is it may not be that you aren't making progress right away cuz you're just learning to know them and you like them, but maybe long term at some point in time, the other thing it's also okay to change for is if you don't feel like your goals are progressing still. If you're like maybe 6, 7, 8, 10 sessions in and you were doing well initially and then you feel like, geez, I'm kind of feeling like I'm not moving again, had that conversation, but it's also, it's okay to change later on too.
Sometimes people need to have one problem solved with the first therapist and they need to go to a second therapist because they need other issues have popped up. So it's also okay to change, , maybe you were making good progress. Like, you talked about your son. Maybe he was, starts out and he's doing great and he's getting some esteem issues being billed and he's like, geez, you know what? But some of my other goals aren't being met and it's okay to make that.
Scott Webb: Yeah. Other stuff. Sure. Yeah, it's really interesting. And course as a dad, Chris, I can appreciate the dad jokes. But you were talking about just that initial visit. And what the provider did with my son is they sat down on the floor and they played shoots and ladders, which of course was well beneath both of their age levels, but they just sat down and they just played a game. And they just talked to each other and got to know each other to find out if it was gonna be a good fit for both of them.
And even during Covid, sort of pivoted as probably everybody did. And my son was doing visits with him, video visits, telehealth visits, and that seemed to work as well. I guess when you find that fit, when it seems right for both parties and the patient, the client, in this case, my son was progressing, you do what you have to do, right?
Linda Lindsey: Yes. I just wanna make a mark on the video chat thing. I will say I've always loved video services. I've been doing this, you know, only for about a decade. And the one thing that I always thought, this is the kind of the future, , there's video visits, but they weren't really embraced until we were forced to embrace them. And it was amazing people are doing this and here's, this is an interesting ti but at least in my thought process, the people who like video chats typically more my age. The younger folks don't like it as much because that's what I do with my friends, right? I talk video, chat with my friends, and I want to talk to a therapist. I want to see them in person. So there is a weird, like one off that's happened and we've noticed, and kind of research is backing that of you know us my age folks, we like it.
Scott Webb: Yeah. And it's like if there are any silver linings to Covid, we've sort of embraced these video visits, even hopefully some of the younger people. And also we're talking more about mental health. And how to address mental health issues, how to choose professionals, how to find the right fit and all of that. And we've certainly done that here in parts one and part two. So thank you again. Hopefully we'll get to speak again. You both stay well.
Christopher Tafelski: You as well.
Linda Lindsey: Thank you.
Scott Webb: And for more information, please visit promedica.org. And if you found this podcast helpful, please do so on your social media. Thanks again for listening. I'm Scott Webb, and until next time, stay Happily Ever After 40.