Selected Podcast
Talking to Your Friends About Mental Health
In this episode, we hear from Dr. Angela Stebbins, the director of behavioral medicine at Riverside Healthcare. She will lead a discussion about the best ways to approach and support someone when talking about mental health.
Featured Speaker:
Angela Stebbins, PhD
Dr. Angela Stebbins is a Licensed Psychologist who earned her doctorate degree in clinical psychology from CSPP at Alliant International University, in San Diego. Dr. Stebbins currently utilizes Dialectical Behavioral Therapy Techniques (DBT) in addition to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and Acceptance and Commitment in Therapy (ACT). Dr. Stebbins has worked in a variety of clinical settings with different populations. She has experience working with families, children, adolescents, adults, couples, and groups in which she provides psychotherapy, psychoeducational and psychological evaluations. Dr. Stebbins has clinical experience treating a variety of mood and personality disorders which range from mild to severe. Dr. Stebbins has worked with clients providing in home therapy as well as at inpatient centers, school settings, outpatient clinics in addition to correctional institutions. Throughout her educational career, Dr. Stebbins researched cerebral lateralization and how it relates to handedness in special populations at the Salk Institute in San Diego. While in graduate school, Dr. Stebbins completed her dissertation on coping skills of working mothers. Transcription:
Talking to Your Friends About Mental Health
Healthcare can be confusing, but thanks to your, my Riverside MyChart, you can easily manage not only your care, but your families as well with a single click, your, my Riverside MyChart lets you stay well connected to the same information your provider sees. You can view your health history, get test results, request prescription refills, pay your bill, or make an appointment.
Manage your care from anywhere your laptop, phone, or tablet. Learn more and enroll This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..
Liz Healy (Host): Hello, listeners, and thanks for tuning in to the Well Within Reach Podcast brought to you by Riverside Healthcare. I'm your host, Liz Healy. And joining me today is Angela Stebbins, who's the director of Riverside's Behavioral Medicine. Thanks for joining us today, Angie.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.
Liz Healy (Host): So today, we're going to talk about talking to our friends about our mental health. But before we get into that, can you tell us a little bit about your background and the role you play here at Riverside?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Yeah, sure. So I'm a clinical psychologist. I got into behavioral medicine right out of high school. I started working at an autism agency and I just fell in love. Actually, this is funny because I wanted to be a broadcast journalist. And then, I decided to get my doctorate in psychology and I was like, "Hey, I can do both," and look at me now, right?
Liz Healy (Host): Yes, for sure.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: So along the way, I've worked at very different levels of care. I've worked in-home, outpatient, residential and then crisis houses. So I've run the gamut. I've also been a prison psychologist. And this is my third inpatient facility that I'm working at. And so as the director, I'm over the five inpatient units and then also our outpatient services, so Pathways, which is excitingly expanding at the end of June.
Liz Healy (Host): Yeah, that's very exciting. It sounds like you have a really wide base of knowledge. So you're a great person to talk to about this particular topic. So, you know, just jumping in here, what's the best way to approach a friend or family member who appears to be struggling with their mental health?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: So my policy is always authenticity, right? I think that oftentimes we get inside our heads too much and think about the perfect way to approach someone. It's really, if you have a relationship with that person, approaching them as you would, you know, a friend and just saying like, "Hey, how are you doing? I've noticed lately that you appear to be down or you've been canceling a lot. Is there something that you want to talk about? Is there any way that I can support you?"
Liz Healy (Host): Okay. So I know it's easier talking to our friends and family. But if there's maybe like a work acquaintance that you might not know as well, but you do notice those things, is there a way that you can approach that? Would you approach it the same way?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: I would approach it as a passing by comment, offering your support. Maybe not saying, "I've noticed certain things," you know, because you don't know that person, you don't know how they'll take that. But really asking them how they are. And then also I know that we get really uncomfortable talking to our supervisors sometimes. But if you're noticing something with a colleague, they're calling off a lot, you notice them crying, frequently taking breaks, appearing anxious, I would approach your supervisor and talk to them about your concerns from an authentic place of, "I have concerns," you know?
Liz Healy (Host): Yeah, for sure. So there's obviously going to be probably two general ways that people will react to you starting to ask these questions. So if someone does go ahead and start opening up about their mental health, how should you respond?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: That's a great question. Yeah. So I would listen and I would offer empathy. Empathy is validation. It's being there. And when we're listening to someone, we really want to make sure that we're making eye contact, that we have that open body posture. One thing that I would say, you know, leading into the conversation, is if you are wanting to have a conversation with somebody, really make sure that you have the time to sit there because you never know what someone's going to open up with and you don't want to be pressed for time and end the conversation midway through, especially if it's a heavy conversation.
Liz Healy (Host): Yeah, for sure. So on the flip side of them opening up and, you know, making sure you have the time, there could be someone that may not want to talk about the concern that you've brought up, what should you do in that type of situation?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: So we're talking about a friend and they're not wanting to open up, I would let them know that I'm there for them. And even if they don't want to talk about what's going on, that I am concerned for them. And then, you know, it depends on what you're noticing. So if you're around someone, they seem depressed and they are missing work, if they're having effects in their life that could be catastrophic, I would reach out to other friends, I would reach out to family members and I would really try to rally a network of support for those individuals. And if you are the closest person, I would start having a really difficult conversation of, "I think it may be time to seek help outside of our friendship, outside of your support system. This seems to be more than a blues episode."
Liz Healy (Host): Yeah, for sure. And I know here in the Kankakee area, we have a large number of community partners that do offer mental health services. So that would be a great resource to maybe share some of those with them. And then Riverside here, we have the central intake department if someone does need to seek help. And the phone number for that is (844) 442-2551. So kind of on the flip side, you know, maybe they have decided, "Yes, I want to talk," are there some things that you should avoid saying or avoid doing while you're trying to assist someone that's having a mental health crisis?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: That's a good question. Some things that you should avoid doing, you know, when someone is talking to you about their mental health, again, be authentic, make sure that you're ready to have the conversation, allow them to talk. I would try to avoid comparing situations. Often, when we're trying to be empathetic, we're not actually being empathetic, we're one-upping. So it's something like you're going through a really tough breakup and someone says, "Oh, that's nothing. Everyone goes through a breakup. There are a million fish in the sea, right?" Is that helpful? That may feel like you're being helpful, it's not helpful. A better response would be, "I'm sorry, you're having a difficult time right now. Is there something I can do with you? Can we go for walks? Do you want company?
Liz Healy (Host): Yes, for sure. That's a great example. I know that's something that we always say. I've said that to my friends, like, "Oh, it's all right there. You'll find someone else," instead of being more the empathetic, what can I do for you? So what are some of the best ways we can, you've touched on a few of them, but support someone who's struggling with their mental health.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: So there's a fine line between being supportive and then also kind of being a nag, right?
Liz Healy (Host): Yes.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: So, it's a great conversation to have. Ask that person. How can I be supportive? I don't want to be a nag. I also don't want to gloss over this as if it's something that can easily be solved in a day. So I need your guidance. The best course of action is to ask that person and engage with that person on how to be supportive, what they find supportive. Kind of like what we've talked about before with empathizing and providing validation, what you may find validating is not always validating to the other person. So really have that conversation with them and check in. And then also letting them know, "Hey, at a certain point, if I have concerns that you're not being honest, what can I do?"
Liz Healy (Host): Yeah. And that's like the accountability, like how do you support that someone and help them keep accountable to working on their mental health or maybe if they are receiving treatment to their treatment?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Right. And that is the difficult part. And so that goes back to how can you take care of yourself when someone in your life is struggling with a mental health condition? We talk a lot about individuals who have a mental health illness and the longevity of that and how it takes a toll on them. There are very few discussions about the providers, the caregivers, the people in their lives. And so it's twofold. Having that conversation, telling the individual, "I need you to tell me how to be supportive. I need you to tell me what accountability is okay for you and what feels supportive." And this depends on your relationship too, if you're close to that person, "If at any time I feel like you need intervention, I'm going to intervene." But then also knowing at what point in your life do you need to step back? Because we can't make people do things.
Liz Healy (Host): Yes. It goes back to the nagging comment. You can't nag them. You just want to make sure that you're being supportive in helping them with their mental health journey and not hindering it.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: But it also can be very taxing on you and start to take a toll on your mental health, because you're concerned with that person. Are they okay? Are they going to do something to harm themselves, right? And so then, your mental health starts declining. And I'm not saying step away completely. I would also have a conversation. It all goes back to communicating and saying, "I feel like I am being a nag," right? "You have support services. We're both in agreement that are the steps that we're agreeing to take as far as accountability. And at this point, I need to step back and you let me know when you want me there."
Liz Healy (Host): Yes, for sure. We definitely have to watch out for ourselves just as much as we have to watch out for others. Something that I always kind of think about when it comes to talking about mental health, especially if me, myself, or if you wanted to give advice to somebody else, if we felt nervous or uncomfortable about talking about mental health to one of our friends or family, what kind of advice would you give? You know, you said being authentic, but is there a good way to approach the topic?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Yeah, I would say lean into the discomfort. A lot of cultures look at mental health as a weakness. I think that we're doing a pretty good job climbing the hill and working on stigma. It's still out there. And then knowing that not everyone is going to agree with you and it's not your job to make everyone agree with you and to make everyone understand. So I like to have tough conversations by starting out with what I'm anxious about. "So there's something that I want to talk to you about, and I'm nervous that you're going to not hear me or you're going to take it the wrong way. So I would like, while I'm talking, just to have you be, you know, open-minded and then hear me out." And then, interject at the end.
Liz Healy (Host): Yeah. That's really great advice. I know it's always hard leaning into something that's uncomfortable or that makes you feel nervous. There's always the self-consciousness of it. So when we go to talk about mental health, especially with our friends, are there phrases that we can say, I know we've touched on a few, you know, "What can we do for you? How can I support you?" that should say or not say?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Commenting on someone's physical appearance, even if it's bags under the eyes, you know, shadows under the eyes, that's always a touchy subject, right? Because they could just have relative stress related to what's going on in the world right now, what's going on at work. So I would definitely stay away from physical attributes. "You look really tired," right?
Liz Healy (Host): Yeah. Okay, thanks.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Thanks a lot. Yeah. And to go more to the heart of the matter, I think that we try to walk around the edge of the pond as opposed to leaping in. And it is always better to say, "Hey, I'm concerned about you. So talk about your feelings. I'm concerned. Is there something going on?"
Liz Healy (Host): The I statements. So it's less you, more I or we. So is there an example that you could give us that's like a time that you've helped a family or friend during a crisis?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Yeah, actually. So social media is prevalent with adolescence. And so I'm going to talk about something personal. My nephew, like many teenagers, tends to use social media as an outcry for help. So a couple times I've seen him post things that have really gut checked me. And so I've reached out to his parents, my sister, my brother-in-law and then I have five sisters, my other sisters, we kind of, you know, text back and forth and say, "Hey, have you seen this post? Am I overreacting?" And then recently, he struggled with an event that happened, a girl broke up with him and he attempted suicide and he didn't tell his parents and he ended up inpatient. And so, I went up to the ICU unit and with my mother, always bring support, and convinced him along with the great staff in Northern Wisconsin to go inpatient because it was time to really take that step and to get more help for his mental health. That can always be really scary.
When you've never been inpatient before, I talk about this a lot with patients, with our staff, people who haven't ever had a serious mental health concern, you know, we've all experienced anxiety, we've all felt down. But really needing to go inpatient to get stabilized, that's really scary because you don't know what that looks like. You don't know what to expect. And you don't know how long you're going to be there, right? We do because we're the mental health professionals, right? So, normalizing it, normalizing that getting away from the stigma words. You're not crazy. What does crazy mean, right? You're struggling right now and you need some extra support. So yeah, being able to lead with your heart and with authenticity and leaning into discomfort of this situation is always best.
Liz Healy (Host): Yeah, thank you for sharing that story. So something kind of with that, how would you protect yourself from like the secondary trauma or the burnout when helping your friends and family?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Boundaries
Liz Healy (Host): Yes, it's very vague, right? Having good boundaries.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Having good boundaries and boundaries can look like a friend calls you on your way home from work, you're driving. And I actually had this happen. I used to work more one-on-one with patients and a lot of patients with self-harm. And I would have to transition patients from the outpatient program into inpatient. So it was a very difficult environment. And so when I was driving home, that was kind of like my reprieve for the day. I would listen to podcasts. I would listen to music. I would chill out.
In a particularly difficult day, a friend called me and really started talking about something that she wanted support on. And I had to stop her and say, "I really want to be there for you. I can't right now." And that's tough. And it can really hurt people's feelings. But again, communication, I can't emphasize communication enough. Setting boundaries, and not setting the boundary and leaving it, why that is the boundary, right? It's not that I don't want to be there for you as a friend. It's that in this moment I am tapped out. And if I am listening to you right now, I'm not going to be able to be there in the way that I want to be there for you.
The other way is self-care. I do a lot for myself.
Liz Healy (Host): As we all should.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Yes. I find hot yoga wonderful. I used to live in California and I used to surf and I try to find activities that are difficult to the point where I can't do anything else, but focus on the activity. So surfing wasn't for me. And when I lived in San Diego, unfortunately, I only lived there for about 12 years and I came back to the Midwest and so I had to find something to replace it. So hot yoga for me is really it because it's hot. You're struggling to breathe at times. And so when I'm in the room, I'm in the room.
Liz Healy (Host): Novel.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Something new, because anytime we're experiencing a new activity or doing something new, it takes more attention. So I always try to find new things. So during the pandemic, in the very beginning, I started embroidery.
Liz Healy (Host): Oh, okay.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Yeah. And I find at least for me things with my hands, right?
Liz Healy (Host): Yes. Keeping the hands busy keeps of brain busy.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Yes. I love my pets. I take my pets for walks.
Liz Healy (Host): Yes. I'm sure they love going for the walks.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Yeah. It's like right now, when it's like a hundred degrees.
Liz Healy (Host): Yes. The weather permitting, they like walks.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: It's twofold, right? So it's setting boundaries, it's filling up your cup and then talking to friends, educating yourself and giving yourself permission to step away.
Liz Healy (Host): Yes. That's a lot of really great advice. And I want to thank you for all the information that you shared today. I think that there's some really good information that people can take forward and help them on their journey to either help with their mental health or their friends helping their friends out. Is there anything else that you'd like to add today?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Yeah, I think that in general, we're always nervous that we're going to offend people. It's better to reach out if you're seeing something than not, right? I'd rather offend you than not ask if you're okay.
Liz Healy (Host): Yes, for sure. I think that's great advice. And I want to thank you for tuning into the Well Within Reach podcast with Angie Stebbins, who's the director of Riverside Behavioral Medicine and your host, Liz Healy.
To learn more about the services provided by Riverside's Behavioral Medicine Department, visit our website at riversidehealthcare.org or call our Central Intake Department at 844-442-2551.
Talking to Your Friends About Mental Health
Healthcare can be confusing, but thanks to your, my Riverside MyChart, you can easily manage not only your care, but your families as well with a single click, your, my Riverside MyChart lets you stay well connected to the same information your provider sees. You can view your health history, get test results, request prescription refills, pay your bill, or make an appointment.
Manage your care from anywhere your laptop, phone, or tablet. Learn more and enroll This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..
Liz Healy (Host): Hello, listeners, and thanks for tuning in to the Well Within Reach Podcast brought to you by Riverside Healthcare. I'm your host, Liz Healy. And joining me today is Angela Stebbins, who's the director of Riverside's Behavioral Medicine. Thanks for joining us today, Angie.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.
Liz Healy (Host): So today, we're going to talk about talking to our friends about our mental health. But before we get into that, can you tell us a little bit about your background and the role you play here at Riverside?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Yeah, sure. So I'm a clinical psychologist. I got into behavioral medicine right out of high school. I started working at an autism agency and I just fell in love. Actually, this is funny because I wanted to be a broadcast journalist. And then, I decided to get my doctorate in psychology and I was like, "Hey, I can do both," and look at me now, right?
Liz Healy (Host): Yes, for sure.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: So along the way, I've worked at very different levels of care. I've worked in-home, outpatient, residential and then crisis houses. So I've run the gamut. I've also been a prison psychologist. And this is my third inpatient facility that I'm working at. And so as the director, I'm over the five inpatient units and then also our outpatient services, so Pathways, which is excitingly expanding at the end of June.
Liz Healy (Host): Yeah, that's very exciting. It sounds like you have a really wide base of knowledge. So you're a great person to talk to about this particular topic. So, you know, just jumping in here, what's the best way to approach a friend or family member who appears to be struggling with their mental health?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: So my policy is always authenticity, right? I think that oftentimes we get inside our heads too much and think about the perfect way to approach someone. It's really, if you have a relationship with that person, approaching them as you would, you know, a friend and just saying like, "Hey, how are you doing? I've noticed lately that you appear to be down or you've been canceling a lot. Is there something that you want to talk about? Is there any way that I can support you?"
Liz Healy (Host): Okay. So I know it's easier talking to our friends and family. But if there's maybe like a work acquaintance that you might not know as well, but you do notice those things, is there a way that you can approach that? Would you approach it the same way?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: I would approach it as a passing by comment, offering your support. Maybe not saying, "I've noticed certain things," you know, because you don't know that person, you don't know how they'll take that. But really asking them how they are. And then also I know that we get really uncomfortable talking to our supervisors sometimes. But if you're noticing something with a colleague, they're calling off a lot, you notice them crying, frequently taking breaks, appearing anxious, I would approach your supervisor and talk to them about your concerns from an authentic place of, "I have concerns," you know?
Liz Healy (Host): Yeah, for sure. So there's obviously going to be probably two general ways that people will react to you starting to ask these questions. So if someone does go ahead and start opening up about their mental health, how should you respond?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: That's a great question. Yeah. So I would listen and I would offer empathy. Empathy is validation. It's being there. And when we're listening to someone, we really want to make sure that we're making eye contact, that we have that open body posture. One thing that I would say, you know, leading into the conversation, is if you are wanting to have a conversation with somebody, really make sure that you have the time to sit there because you never know what someone's going to open up with and you don't want to be pressed for time and end the conversation midway through, especially if it's a heavy conversation.
Liz Healy (Host): Yeah, for sure. So on the flip side of them opening up and, you know, making sure you have the time, there could be someone that may not want to talk about the concern that you've brought up, what should you do in that type of situation?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: So we're talking about a friend and they're not wanting to open up, I would let them know that I'm there for them. And even if they don't want to talk about what's going on, that I am concerned for them. And then, you know, it depends on what you're noticing. So if you're around someone, they seem depressed and they are missing work, if they're having effects in their life that could be catastrophic, I would reach out to other friends, I would reach out to family members and I would really try to rally a network of support for those individuals. And if you are the closest person, I would start having a really difficult conversation of, "I think it may be time to seek help outside of our friendship, outside of your support system. This seems to be more than a blues episode."
Liz Healy (Host): Yeah, for sure. And I know here in the Kankakee area, we have a large number of community partners that do offer mental health services. So that would be a great resource to maybe share some of those with them. And then Riverside here, we have the central intake department if someone does need to seek help. And the phone number for that is (844) 442-2551. So kind of on the flip side, you know, maybe they have decided, "Yes, I want to talk," are there some things that you should avoid saying or avoid doing while you're trying to assist someone that's having a mental health crisis?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: That's a good question. Some things that you should avoid doing, you know, when someone is talking to you about their mental health, again, be authentic, make sure that you're ready to have the conversation, allow them to talk. I would try to avoid comparing situations. Often, when we're trying to be empathetic, we're not actually being empathetic, we're one-upping. So it's something like you're going through a really tough breakup and someone says, "Oh, that's nothing. Everyone goes through a breakup. There are a million fish in the sea, right?" Is that helpful? That may feel like you're being helpful, it's not helpful. A better response would be, "I'm sorry, you're having a difficult time right now. Is there something I can do with you? Can we go for walks? Do you want company?
Liz Healy (Host): Yes, for sure. That's a great example. I know that's something that we always say. I've said that to my friends, like, "Oh, it's all right there. You'll find someone else," instead of being more the empathetic, what can I do for you? So what are some of the best ways we can, you've touched on a few of them, but support someone who's struggling with their mental health.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: So there's a fine line between being supportive and then also kind of being a nag, right?
Liz Healy (Host): Yes.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: So, it's a great conversation to have. Ask that person. How can I be supportive? I don't want to be a nag. I also don't want to gloss over this as if it's something that can easily be solved in a day. So I need your guidance. The best course of action is to ask that person and engage with that person on how to be supportive, what they find supportive. Kind of like what we've talked about before with empathizing and providing validation, what you may find validating is not always validating to the other person. So really have that conversation with them and check in. And then also letting them know, "Hey, at a certain point, if I have concerns that you're not being honest, what can I do?"
Liz Healy (Host): Yeah. And that's like the accountability, like how do you support that someone and help them keep accountable to working on their mental health or maybe if they are receiving treatment to their treatment?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Right. And that is the difficult part. And so that goes back to how can you take care of yourself when someone in your life is struggling with a mental health condition? We talk a lot about individuals who have a mental health illness and the longevity of that and how it takes a toll on them. There are very few discussions about the providers, the caregivers, the people in their lives. And so it's twofold. Having that conversation, telling the individual, "I need you to tell me how to be supportive. I need you to tell me what accountability is okay for you and what feels supportive." And this depends on your relationship too, if you're close to that person, "If at any time I feel like you need intervention, I'm going to intervene." But then also knowing at what point in your life do you need to step back? Because we can't make people do things.
Liz Healy (Host): Yes. It goes back to the nagging comment. You can't nag them. You just want to make sure that you're being supportive in helping them with their mental health journey and not hindering it.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: But it also can be very taxing on you and start to take a toll on your mental health, because you're concerned with that person. Are they okay? Are they going to do something to harm themselves, right? And so then, your mental health starts declining. And I'm not saying step away completely. I would also have a conversation. It all goes back to communicating and saying, "I feel like I am being a nag," right? "You have support services. We're both in agreement that are the steps that we're agreeing to take as far as accountability. And at this point, I need to step back and you let me know when you want me there."
Liz Healy (Host): Yes, for sure. We definitely have to watch out for ourselves just as much as we have to watch out for others. Something that I always kind of think about when it comes to talking about mental health, especially if me, myself, or if you wanted to give advice to somebody else, if we felt nervous or uncomfortable about talking about mental health to one of our friends or family, what kind of advice would you give? You know, you said being authentic, but is there a good way to approach the topic?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Yeah, I would say lean into the discomfort. A lot of cultures look at mental health as a weakness. I think that we're doing a pretty good job climbing the hill and working on stigma. It's still out there. And then knowing that not everyone is going to agree with you and it's not your job to make everyone agree with you and to make everyone understand. So I like to have tough conversations by starting out with what I'm anxious about. "So there's something that I want to talk to you about, and I'm nervous that you're going to not hear me or you're going to take it the wrong way. So I would like, while I'm talking, just to have you be, you know, open-minded and then hear me out." And then, interject at the end.
Liz Healy (Host): Yeah. That's really great advice. I know it's always hard leaning into something that's uncomfortable or that makes you feel nervous. There's always the self-consciousness of it. So when we go to talk about mental health, especially with our friends, are there phrases that we can say, I know we've touched on a few, you know, "What can we do for you? How can I support you?" that should say or not say?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Commenting on someone's physical appearance, even if it's bags under the eyes, you know, shadows under the eyes, that's always a touchy subject, right? Because they could just have relative stress related to what's going on in the world right now, what's going on at work. So I would definitely stay away from physical attributes. "You look really tired," right?
Liz Healy (Host): Yeah. Okay, thanks.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Thanks a lot. Yeah. And to go more to the heart of the matter, I think that we try to walk around the edge of the pond as opposed to leaping in. And it is always better to say, "Hey, I'm concerned about you. So talk about your feelings. I'm concerned. Is there something going on?"
Liz Healy (Host): The I statements. So it's less you, more I or we. So is there an example that you could give us that's like a time that you've helped a family or friend during a crisis?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Yeah, actually. So social media is prevalent with adolescence. And so I'm going to talk about something personal. My nephew, like many teenagers, tends to use social media as an outcry for help. So a couple times I've seen him post things that have really gut checked me. And so I've reached out to his parents, my sister, my brother-in-law and then I have five sisters, my other sisters, we kind of, you know, text back and forth and say, "Hey, have you seen this post? Am I overreacting?" And then recently, he struggled with an event that happened, a girl broke up with him and he attempted suicide and he didn't tell his parents and he ended up inpatient. And so, I went up to the ICU unit and with my mother, always bring support, and convinced him along with the great staff in Northern Wisconsin to go inpatient because it was time to really take that step and to get more help for his mental health. That can always be really scary.
When you've never been inpatient before, I talk about this a lot with patients, with our staff, people who haven't ever had a serious mental health concern, you know, we've all experienced anxiety, we've all felt down. But really needing to go inpatient to get stabilized, that's really scary because you don't know what that looks like. You don't know what to expect. And you don't know how long you're going to be there, right? We do because we're the mental health professionals, right? So, normalizing it, normalizing that getting away from the stigma words. You're not crazy. What does crazy mean, right? You're struggling right now and you need some extra support. So yeah, being able to lead with your heart and with authenticity and leaning into discomfort of this situation is always best.
Liz Healy (Host): Yeah, thank you for sharing that story. So something kind of with that, how would you protect yourself from like the secondary trauma or the burnout when helping your friends and family?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Boundaries
Liz Healy (Host): Yes, it's very vague, right? Having good boundaries.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Having good boundaries and boundaries can look like a friend calls you on your way home from work, you're driving. And I actually had this happen. I used to work more one-on-one with patients and a lot of patients with self-harm. And I would have to transition patients from the outpatient program into inpatient. So it was a very difficult environment. And so when I was driving home, that was kind of like my reprieve for the day. I would listen to podcasts. I would listen to music. I would chill out.
In a particularly difficult day, a friend called me and really started talking about something that she wanted support on. And I had to stop her and say, "I really want to be there for you. I can't right now." And that's tough. And it can really hurt people's feelings. But again, communication, I can't emphasize communication enough. Setting boundaries, and not setting the boundary and leaving it, why that is the boundary, right? It's not that I don't want to be there for you as a friend. It's that in this moment I am tapped out. And if I am listening to you right now, I'm not going to be able to be there in the way that I want to be there for you.
The other way is self-care. I do a lot for myself.
Liz Healy (Host): As we all should.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Yes. I find hot yoga wonderful. I used to live in California and I used to surf and I try to find activities that are difficult to the point where I can't do anything else, but focus on the activity. So surfing wasn't for me. And when I lived in San Diego, unfortunately, I only lived there for about 12 years and I came back to the Midwest and so I had to find something to replace it. So hot yoga for me is really it because it's hot. You're struggling to breathe at times. And so when I'm in the room, I'm in the room.
Liz Healy (Host): Novel.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Something new, because anytime we're experiencing a new activity or doing something new, it takes more attention. So I always try to find new things. So during the pandemic, in the very beginning, I started embroidery.
Liz Healy (Host): Oh, okay.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Yeah. And I find at least for me things with my hands, right?
Liz Healy (Host): Yes. Keeping the hands busy keeps of brain busy.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Yes. I love my pets. I take my pets for walks.
Liz Healy (Host): Yes. I'm sure they love going for the walks.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Yeah. It's like right now, when it's like a hundred degrees.
Liz Healy (Host): Yes. The weather permitting, they like walks.
Angela Stebbins, PhD: It's twofold, right? So it's setting boundaries, it's filling up your cup and then talking to friends, educating yourself and giving yourself permission to step away.
Liz Healy (Host): Yes. That's a lot of really great advice. And I want to thank you for all the information that you shared today. I think that there's some really good information that people can take forward and help them on their journey to either help with their mental health or their friends helping their friends out. Is there anything else that you'd like to add today?
Angela Stebbins, PhD: Yeah, I think that in general, we're always nervous that we're going to offend people. It's better to reach out if you're seeing something than not, right? I'd rather offend you than not ask if you're okay.
Liz Healy (Host): Yes, for sure. I think that's great advice. And I want to thank you for tuning into the Well Within Reach podcast with Angie Stebbins, who's the director of Riverside Behavioral Medicine and your host, Liz Healy.
To learn more about the services provided by Riverside's Behavioral Medicine Department, visit our website at riversidehealthcare.org or call our Central Intake Department at 844-442-2551.