Host: Welcome back to the Well Within Reach podcast. I'm your host, Helen Dandurand, and today I'm going to be joined by Roger Hartline, who works in Pathways, which is the outpatient mental health program at Riverside, to talk about LGBTQ + mental health and how to be a good ally.

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Host: And we're back with Roger Hartline. Thanks for joining me today.

Roger Hartline, LSW: Thank you for having me.

Host: Of course. So I know you've been on the podcast before, but in case someone hasn't heard that episode, could you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Roger Hartline, LSW: Sure. Absolutely. My name is Roger Hartline. I'm a Licensed Clinical Social Worker in the state of Illinois, and I have worked as a mental health professional in the local area for approximately two years. And other than that, I've been doing social work in the area for six or seven years.

Host: Awesome, so you've been around for a bit.

Roger Hartline, LSW: A little bit. Yeah.

Host: Great. So then let's just go ahead and jump in. My first question for you is, what would you say are some unique mental health challenges to individuals within the LGBTQ community, that they face and particularly concerning the stigma and discrimination?

Roger Hartline, LSW: Good question. This year, the Kaiser Family Foundation reported that one third of LGBTQIA adults have reported that they felt unfairly treated by a health care provider, which I think is just something very interesting to hear and I think it just like anyone who works in this community or in this field needs to have their alarm bells ringing a little bit when they hear something like that, because that's twice the rate of people who are outside of this community.

And then specifically, LGBTQIA adults are more likely than others to experience mental health challenges versus people outside of the community. So they face higher rates of mental health issues and higher rates of discrimination and unfair treatment compared to others as well.

Host: I'm going to ask a really dumb question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. So Liz has written here LGBTQ, and then I understand LGBTQIA, should I be saying all of that? I just don't know.

Roger Hartline, LSW: You know, I think it really varies. In our community, LGBTQ has kind of been and not in our community but just in our society, that's become a little bit more widely recognized.

And I feel like a lot of people are like, oh, there's more letters at the end of it. And I think that the goal is really just to become more inclusive. And so the I and the A kind of helps extend that to more members of the community, and a lot of times you'll see like a plus at the end of it, too, just to continue that idea that things are changing constantly.

Half these words that we use now did not exist the same way that they do now two decades ago, so it's just a matter of trying to make sure that we, as a society, are keeping up with the ever changing community,

Host: Got it. That makes sense. Thank you for answering that.

Roger Hartline, LSW: Of course.

Host: Moving on, why is it important for mental wellbeing to use the correct names and pronouns for members of the LGBTQIA community?

Roger Hartline, LSW: There's a lot of heat on this topic right now in general. You know what I mean? I think when you take away that lens of it being for people in the LGBTQIA community, it starts to get a little confusing. You know, we've been calling Margaret's Peggy's for years, you know what I mean?

And that makes zero sense to me. Right. So, really, it's a matter of kind of seeing that, we should be referring to people by their preferred name pretty much in all cases, you know what I mean? Because it's about making our patients and our clients feel more comfortable. And that is a big part of treating them, whether it be in primary care, mental health, any setting.

And then when you look at some of that discrimination, like we were talking about earlier, that people within the LGBTQIA community experience, I think that, it's important to make them feel comfortable and, one thing that I remember from my first day at Riverside is they said, and I don't know if this is still part of the orientation, but I like it, so I'm gonna say it. They say that when we're interacting with patients, this is not their best day. This is not like the day that they wanna write on their Facebook post or in their diary and share that how great this was. These are hard days that we are working with people on. I think that in those moments, we just need to be understanding and meet people where they're at.

You know, a lot of people, at least in the mental health field that I work in, I feel like a lot of people struggle with is this a symptom? Like I don't wanna, you know, call them this name if, and as far as I'm concerned. Put all that aside and just recognize, like, right now they're asking for this and that's something we can do. It costs nothing, and we can make it happen and do what we can to make them feel more comfortable, you know?

Host: Absolutely. If somebody said, call me Peggy, I would never question that. So, you know, whatever, you know, makes people comfortable. Definitely. As an ally, what actions can one take to create a more inclusive and supportive environment, for LGBTQIA individuals, struggling with mental health issues?

Roger Hartline, LSW: I think the number one thing is do the work and educate yourself. You know, I think there are so many good resources out there to familiarize yourself with a lot of information that people want to know when it comes to how to be a good ally or even how to become more comfortable with the idea.

Don't assume anything. I think that's true of most populations that we work with, but I think it kind of like applies to this community as well. Riverside, as a whole, if you look through some of the OLLI lessons that are available, you can search in OLLI, you know, LGBTQ or whatever acronym, and you can find that there's a lot of different trainings that can help us navigate working through some of these things with some of these people who are coming into our clinics or, you know, into the hospital.

And I think, there's, now there's a lot of fear about asking. And I think it's okay to ask questions, but I think that it's just important that we ask questions that are pertinent to people's care, also making sure that it's in a safe place. If someone's coming into a clinic and, you have to ask them information to better understand how their body works, including like their hormones and stuff, ask them those questions, but don't do it in the lobby. You know what I mean? In front of other people, do it in a private setting to where they can kind of share more openly and cause that in the long run is going to help us treat them.

Host: Definitely. That made a lot of sense. Would you be able to share some strategies for effectively communicating with LGBTQIA individuals who may be hesitant to seek mental health support due to maybe past negative experiences or fear of discrimination?

Roger Hartline, LSW: Yeah. So I think one thing as far as like being a social worker and learning how that process works, a key thing when it comes to somebody who's been exposed to treatment before that was not helpful to them is asking them why.

You know what I mean? Ask them what happened in effort to try to make sure that doesn't happen again and be understanding and validate their feelings. This is their experience and allow them to express it and take note and try to do something different. Because in the long run, if we can help them get the help that they want and they're requesting, then in a lot of ways, we're going to be able to be more impactful to their life.

Host: Definitely, definitely listening is just huge in so many areas, but yeah, just listening and being able to validate, like you said, is so important. What role would you say that things like race, class, gender, all play in understanding the mental health needs of LGBTQIA individuals especially those who belong to multiple marginalized communities?

Roger Hartline, LSW: Sure, so, I mentioned this Kaiser Family Foundation study earlier when we were talking, and you know, it talked a lot about how people who are in this community and they're younger, maybe have lower income, are members of different races, different ethnicities, can really have even more challenges when it comes to discrimination and unfair treatment.

So I think with that in mind, we have to just continue as providers, to become more culturally competent across the board. We can't expect anything to be one size fits all. So we need to all continue to move forward and trying to learn more about other cultures and, how things are different from our norms and values. And at the same time, understand our own values and norms too.

Host: Definitely. And it's kind of a beautiful thing to learn more about different cultures too. Yeah.

Roger Hartline, LSW: I mean, you're talking to a social worker. Like, all I want to do is hear from other people and learn more about them. But, it can be kind of hard. Especially, you know, because they feel like people are sometimes, time management or stress, you know. But I think that we find that the care for these people is so much more fruitful when we know them.

Host: Yeah.

Roger Hartline, LSW: Yeah.

Host: Absolutely. Absolutely.

 We're going to take a quick break to talk about finding a primary care provider. Riverside knows that health is your greatest asset and that your primary care provider is your partner in health. Find a primary care provider that fits your needs@riversidehealthcare.org/primarycare.

Alright, and jumping back in, how can allies ensure that they're providing genuine support and not inadvertently perpetuating stereotypes and biases.

Roger Hartline, LSW: The thing to remember is that age old thing that like, two people can have wildly different experiences, even if they're members of the same community. So, again, don't assume, don't ask inappropriate questions, and, only do things that are appropriate for the care of these people, and make sure that you're continuing to try to provide that safe and private environment.

Host: Awesome. And in what ways can allies advocate for LGBTQIA affirmative mental health services within their communities or within their workplaces?

Roger Hartline, LSW: Sure. I think continue to listen to LGBTQIA folks and hear what they are saying. You know what I mean? What, what help do they need and where are they seeing the biggest gaps within our community for this type of care? And, remember that, it can't only be up to members of the LGBTQIA community to make big change.

We need partners in all areas to help us reach this change. So, part of being an ally is attending those group meetings where they're asking for allies and speaking to your local legislators, speaking to your local providers and making sure that you're advocating for better care.

Host: Definitely, so being on the lookout, listening, and putting in the research so that you are educated and, see how you can help specifically within your community. That makes sense. What are some common misconceptions about LGBTQIA mental health and how can allies work to dispel these misconceptions?

Roger Hartline, LSW: So, one of the biggest things is that being a member of the LGBTQIA community is not a mental health illness. I think that that was a big problem that was causing a lot of stigma for a long time, but now those diagnoses that were used are no longer in practice, and that's been disproven, and it's been taken out of you know, all, of the best practices when it comes to treatment for folks

So we need to kind of abandon this idea and continue to understand that these are just folks who have a different way of living than you, And I think, for me, one of the key things for me is don't call someone who's like effeminate and dramatic. Don't do that.

Host: Sure.

Roger Hartline, LSW: You know what I mean? Or don't call someone who likes to wear gym shorts and like a ponytail like a tomboy.

Host: Right.

Roger Hartline, LSW: Like we need to abandon some of these things that kind of are just hurtful and not helpful.

Host: Yeah. No, that totally makes sense. And that's great information and great to know. How can individuals outside of the LGBTQIA community best educate themselves about the specific mental health needs and experiences of LGBTQIA individuals?

Roger Hartline, LSW: Like I mentioned earlier, there's a lot of information through OLLI. There's also different websites like the Human Rights Campaign or the Trevor Project that really can lend a lot of good information. That's the majority of the stuff I brought today is from those resources that really can help set up providers to feel stronger in treating these people and giving them what they need. For those maybe who are working specifically in the mental health field, Center on Halstead is like the Chicago Gay and Lesbian Center in North Halstead.

And they have a clinical work with LGBTQ clients program that's led by their psychologist, Dr. Mullen, who is fantastic and leads a training. I think it's several times a year and it can just really give some folks like a good like foundation on what to look for when working with these people and what will help you the most when navigating some of these awkward questions, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Host: That's awesome. That sounds like a great resource for those within that field. And my next question, kind of the same question, but I guess I'll phrase it a little differently. Are there specific resources in general, to the public, where can they go, if they would like to get more information, as far as being an ally or even for LGBTQIA individuals seeking mental health assistance. So I guess two little different things there.

Roger Hartline, LSW: Sure. I'll speak kind of broadly on this more. There's a local LGBTQ chapter, it's called the Kankakee Area LGBTQ Network, and they do have a website. It's k3lgbtq.org, and there's a lot of information there that are, they have something called the Rainbow Pages that have local providers that can be of assistance.

They also have groups working for teens. They have groups for elders, and they're continuing to try to identify different ways to kind of provide services for folks in this area, and I mean, I think that getting involved in that is a great step for an ally to start being part of the, positive change.

Host: Definitely. That makes a lot of sense. And I think that kind of wraps up my last few questions. My last one was just about how allies can engage in ongoing self reflection and learning to continuously improve their support. And I think you know, being a part of those groups and getting the information that you need would definitely make sense there.

Roger Hartline, LSW: Yeah, and I think just continuing to check in with yourself. Be humble and to ask yourself difficult questions and take inventory of some of the bias that you may personally have. Try to see how you know to better deal with that. Knowing yourself better is going to lead to you better caring for other people.

Host: Definitely. Is there anything else that you wanted to add today?

Roger Hartline, LSW: No.

Host: No? Awesome.

Roger Hartline, LSW: I think that's everything I got.

Host: Oh, great. We're glad you were here today. Thanks for joining us.

Roger Hartline, LSW: Thank you for having me.

Host: Of course. And thank you listeners for tuning into the Well Within Reach podcast brought to you by Riverside HealthCare.

For more information, visit RiversideHealthCare.org.