Liz Unruh (Host): Hello, listeners. And thanks for tuning into the Well Within Reach podcast brought to you by Riverside Healthcare. I'm your host, Liz Unruh. And joining me today is Kathleen Gallagher, who's the manager of Pulmonology and Sleep Medicine here at Riverside.

Thanks for joining us today. Thanks for having me. Before we get into our topic of surviving sleep deprivation as parents, we're going to hear a quick myChart message.

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Host: And we're back. Kathleen, you've been a frequent guest on our podcast here, but can you tell us a little bit about yourself for those who might not know?

Kathleen Gallagher: I've been working at Riverside ever since 2016, so coming up on nine years. And I really feel that really empowering people about what they can do to sleep better is important. So, I do like doing these podcasts, just to be that person that they can hopefully learn a little tidbit from going forward. But I've been in the field of Sleep Medicine since 2007, so quite a long time.

Host: Yeah, for sure. So, we'll just jump right into it if you're good with that.

Kathleen Gallagher: I'm fine.

Host: Okay. So, let's start with the basics. Why is sleep so important for new parents, both physically and mentally? Like, what's really at stake with making sure you get enough sleep?

Kathleen Gallagher: So, let's talk about what sleep is just for normal people, everybody, people. You know, as adults, we need seven and a half to eight hours for our brain to function and for it to do what it needs to do, which includes healing our bodies, saving our memories, helping us to regulate our emotions. And those are going to be really important when you have a new baby at home because now you've introduced something else, which we know is going to cause you to not get enough sleep. Pregnant women are not getting enough sleep even before they have that baby. And some would say that's preparing them for when they aren't going to have sleep as new parents.

But the thing is, we still need that seven-and-a-half, eight hours in order for our brain to do the things it needs to do and help to regulate our emotions. And so, we really worry about the sleep for us to heal. Because moms, we know that our bodies need to heal after having a baby. And we're just not at our best. We're not at our best when we don't have a baby around, when we don't get enough sleep. So when you add on that extra added responsibility and sleep deprivation, it can really wreak havoc on people and partners.

Host: For sure. I know one of the most common things you always hear when you have a baby is sleep when the baby sleeps, but that's obviously a lot easier said than done. What might be a better piece of advice for someone that's not just lay down and sleep when your baby falls asleep in the middle of the supermarket?

Kathleen Gallagher: Well, babies don't have a timeframe. They're going to sleep when they're going to sleep. And interestingly, I found a research study by the National Institute of Health that came out in 2021 that said, on average in the first 3 months, moms-- this is subjective, of course-- only get 62 minutes less sleep per night in the first three months where men report only getting 13 minutes less sleep. And I'm sure that's because moms are probably doing the bulk of the work. But sleep when the baby sleeps. Easier said than done because I know even I was a mom, and you think, "Oh, I've got to do the laundry, got to maybe make dinner done. Got to, you know, vacuum, clean, dust." This is the time that really, when that baby does take a nap, and I know we want to hold our newborns. It's okay to put them down because this is the opportunity you have to actually go take a rest.

Host: Yes. Or even take a shower like. Fill up your own cup.

Kathleen Gallagher: Exactly. It's all about managing your time better to still figure out how you can make up and feed your body that fuel you need to complete your day.

Host: Yeah, for sure. With that advice, can you give us a few realistic sleep strategies that a new parent could use, even if they're only getting maybe some short stretches of sleep at a time?

Kathleen Gallagher: First of all, even just with your partner, let's have that conversation. Like, "What is this going to look like when the baby comes home? Are you going to help me split shifts? If you can, am I going to take the first four hours? Can you take the last four hours? Or when you come home from work, maybe you can take care of cleaning up the kitchen and making a dinner or something so that I can take a rest?"

I think that sleep strategies, I think you have to really take a good assessment of your own sleep. And there's even been suggestions where people keep a sleep diary and to take a look and see what are you doing. Are you taking too much time chitchatting on the phone with people? Or you know, maybe you want to watch something on TV or we are our worst enemies when we don't have kids. So, how can you make up for that time? And if you take that time to do a sleep diary, share it with your partner. Try and figure out where it is that you can help get some more of that sleep that you need.

Host: Yeah, for sure. Keeping that diary is one form of a ritual to watch your sleep. But are there certain routines or rituals that could help parents wind down faster when they do have the opportunity to catch a little bit of sleep here and there?

Kathleen Gallagher: Sure. I think that, okay, let's watch the caffeine intake. Let's watch the coffee intake, even the alcohol intake. Let's talk about all those. So, I know I always talk about caffeine has that six hour half-life. So if you're thinking about, you know, you're going to have your coffee or your soda, whatever it is in the morning, 50% of that caffeine is still floating around in your brain six hours later. So if you're thinking you're going to go take a nap when the baby naps, maybe your brain's not settling down, maybe you need to take a little time to do some breathing exercises. Get on YouTube and find a guided meditation for sleep. Something to just kind of unwind you, relax you. We worry about our mental health because there is a bidirectional relationship between sleep and mental health. And we don't want to be that upset parent that is stressed out because we are so sleep deprived. It might not hit you week one. But by week three, when you've not really taken the time to take care of yourself, it's going to hit you. And you don't want it to be that you're frustrated at your baby that's crying. Let the baby cry. The baby's not going to remember they're crying. You need to walk away. Take a moment, check in, go back and take care of your baby.

But there's also a thing to postpartum depression with people who are sleep deprived. So, this is just another reason. And I think research, there's so much more now about sleep than there was back, even when I was a parent some 28 plus years ago. So, I think we are our own worst enemies when it comes to sleep overall. So, it's really just adding that extra challenge, and what role are you really going to play in making sure that you get that support? Whether it's your mom comes over, you have a great neighbor that can help, you've got a friend who has a baby, maybe you can trade. "I'll watch your kid while you sleep, vice versa." So, maybe you get the paper goods and you don't have to do the dishes, or hire a cleaning lady just to help.

Host: Yeah, I think those are all really good routines and rituals, habits into that can help in the short term just get you the sleep you need.

Kathleen Gallagher: Take a nice bath. That's another one, right? Take a nice bath. Maybe light some candles. Even the time that we take to even brush our teeth, wash our face, all those things are just things that help us just forget about today. You're not thinking about that stuff when you're going to bed and you're brushing your teeth and everything and washing your face. So, some of the same rituals you have before you have a baby are some of the same rituals that will still work. But definitely, maybe doing some breathing exercises, checking in.

Host: Yeah. For sure. I think, like I mentioned earlier, filling up your own cup, even just those simple self-care things can help you feel more relaxed and be able to fall asleep faster. Well, we're going to take a quick break to hear about primary care.

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And we're back. So many new parents struggle with anxiety or hyper alertness, especially at night. Is the baby still breathing? They might not be able to rest and unwind because of that. Is there anything you can recommend to calm that racing mind when you're overtired and maybe overstimulated?

Kathleen Gallagher: Maybe you need to have the baby in the bassinet in the room with you, if you're worried about is the baby breathing? You know, you can watch over the baby. But at the same time, I'm sure the baby's just fine. And that babies sleep majority of the time. So actually, this is the time to catch up with it.

I think that, as new parents, we are going to be anxious. We are just going to have to get through. Everybody's going to handle it a little differently. So, I think once you have that baby at home and you realize that, yep, they're doing okay, it's okay for them to cry. You'll start learning their cues. Babies do have little ways that they can let you know if they're hungry, if they need their diaper changed, if they want to be held. You'll learn all those little things along the way. So hopefully, you're just in tune to whatever your baby needs. I think holding and bonding with our babies are great, but just being able to know that they're okay. They can lay down.

And also, I was mentioning to a group of people that babies spend a lot of time in their dream sleep. So, they're going to make noises, they're going to make a cry. They might make sounds because that's what they do. And the other thing they do is they can startle easily. They might have these jerky movements, and they move their arms and such, so keep them swaddled, keep them bundled up so you can not have them wake themselves up that way. But it's okay to listen to see if they're really waking up, or they just making noises. So, I think, just as a parent, you inherently kind of know these things anyway, I think, so you just kind of learn what the cues are.

Host: Oh, for sure.

Kathleen Gallagher: Yeah.

Host: I know we talked a little bit about this earlier, but what role does a partner or support person play in helping making sure that each other getting enough rest? And are there certain ways that a couple could tag team sleep in a healthy, balanced way?

Kathleen Gallagher: Well, definitely. I mentioned earlier about just really tag teaming with-- maybe you take shifts. Maybe you take a night, depending on how you're handling your newborn in the beginning, maybe you're a nursing mom, so it really isn't going to work that great. Maybe to get in a good night's sleep, you've got a bed in a separate room. Your night off, go sleep in that other room so you're not disturbed so that your partner can really chime in.

I think it's just

going to be whatever parents or partners try and help to work out to help each other. It might not be that your partner can do a lot for you for some instances. Maybe on the weekends when he is not working or she's not working, you can work out something better. But you definitely have to ask for help, even if it's not your partner. Like I said, whether you've got a friend or a parent. I had a 13-year-old neighbor at the time who was an awesome extra hands because his parents worked. So, he hung out with me when I had three little kids, so that was helpful as well.

Host: Yeah, for sure. Finding that support system is definitely going to be key in making sure you get enough sleep. So, going kind of along with that, can we talk about sleep expectations? So, someone that's a new parent might need to reframe their mindset around sleep to reduce like the guilt or the pressure of not getting enough sleep or feeling like you get too much sleep. Can you talk about how you can reframe that thought process?

Kathleen Gallagher: Yeah. And I'm going to go back to when I said we needed seven and a half to eight hours, right? Today, people are not even getting that much sleep. So, most people are getting six, six and a half hours, let's say. And then, if you go off that research that said that moms usually get 62 minutes per night less sleep, now we're what? At the five-hour five-and-a-half-hour mark, and that's just not enough sleep. And our body keeps track of our sleep debt. Believe it or not, it's like putting a brick in a backpack and it's that thing's going to get too heavy over time and your body's going to crash.

Host: Oh, man.

Kathleen Gallagher: And you're going to get cranky along the way. So if we have to reframe what that's going to look like. That right there in a nutshell, should really give you some indication of what you're in for. And again, prioritizing it. And you shouldn't feel guilty because you have to take care of you. You can't take care of your baby if you're not taking the time to take care of yourself. And you really have to do a good assessment and check in with yourself and see what it is you plan to do. And I think that's for any of us at anything, but the new parent part, definitely that sleep deprivation is going to hit you hard. And you don't want to be taking it out-- and not necessarily on the baby-- but you know, your partner, who's supposed to be there for you. Maybe it's the time that you limit your visitors. This is the time you could say, "You know what? Baby and I haven't figured out what our sleep schedule is, so how about you come when we figure it out." Look at phones have FaceTime now. We didn't have that when I was a kid. I my had kids young. But you don't have to have visitors over if you don't want to. If your house is a mess, you can FaceTime with them and you can show them the baby and visit with your friend at the same time. But like I said, maybe it's, "Hey, this is my time." Well, you set up boundaries for other things, set up your boundaries so that this is the time I'm resting.

And the thing is, if you rest too late in the day, is that going to make it harder for you to go to sleep at night. So, maybe during the day would probably be the best time to catch your sleep.

Host: If there is a parent that's listening to this or maybe you have a friend that maybe is struggling with this, if a parent is struggling or nothing seems to help, when would it be a time that they should seek help from a professional, like a sleep coach or even talk to their medical provider?

Kathleen Gallagher: I think if it goes on for a while and you're really, you know, how we feel and we are sleep deprived for a long period of time, and sleep coaches especially are there to help support you to work with you on what you can do to help adjust your schedule and support you and maybe keep you accountable to be able to help do it.

I think, even seeing a sleep provider, maybe your issue isn't just sleep deprivation from lack of time. Maybe you've got something else going on. Maybe you do have a sleep disorder that needs to be addressed as well, because we know anybody can have snoring and sleep apnea or something like that. So if that's not part of the issue too, it's definitely a reason to talk to your provider.

Host: Yeah, for sure. All right. Well, that's all the questions that I had prepared today, but is there any final advice that you'd like to give to these new parents that are listening today?

Kathleen Gallagher: So, I know that I'm all about that sleep, right? And we talked about what sleep deprivation looks like. But going back to how physically and mentally it can help you, that if you're actually getting the rest that you need, it's actually going to help support any moms that are breastfeeding. You're going to feel more relaxed, more rest, not so stressed out, because we know we want our milk to come in because our stress levels are going to hinder that.

We also want our sleep because having good sleep also helps to regulate our appetite. So when we're sleep deprived, those hormones of feeling satisfied or feeling full or hungry, those kind of go offline. So, we're tending to eat more. We run the risk of getting sick, getting ill. We don't want that to happen. Again, I mentioned about having emotional regulation. And it overall helps you bond better with your baby and have a better parenting experience with your partner and reduces stress, makes it easier for you to handle the demands of being a new parent.

Host: For sure. I think that's great advice for us. And we want to thank you for joining us today, Kathleen. And thank you listeners for tuning into the Well Within Reach podcast with Kathleen Gallagher with Riverside Sleep Center, and your host, Liz Unruh. To learn more about Sleep Medicine at Riverside, visit riversidehealthcare.org/sleep.