Ahsan Basha, MD (Host): Welcome back to the C Word, Community, Not Cancer, which is an intermittent program of people describing their journeys through cancer and how they experience it and how other people may learn from it. And so this is part of Riverside Health.

Our guest today is Ms. Jean Birch, who, this is the first time I'm actually getting to meet her. She's actually a patient of my partner, Dr. Johar Hamden, has been under his care for a while. Ms. Birch, welcome.

Jean Birch: Thank you.

Host: Our goal here is for you to just tell your story about your cancer diagnosis and everything you've experienced through this, okay?

Jean Birch: Okay.

Host: And I'll preface it to the audience to mention that, according to someone, she should not have been here today. Okay.

Jean Birch: Right.

Host: So Ms. Birch, now you were diagnosed with cancer about 2017 or so. Okay. Can you tell me a little bit about how, how that happened?

Jean Birch: Well, I fell down my daughter's steps and hit the front door. And I messed up my shoulder, so I went for physical therapy twice. Didn't help. So I, after a year, I thought, okay, I'm going to see an orthopedic doctor. So I went to this orthopedic doctor and they did a scan. And when I went back to see him, they put me in like a broom closet. I knew it wasn't an examination room because there was a floor scrubber in there and there was stuff in there for cleaning. And I'm thinking, okay, this something's not right. And then this, he came in and he was a young guy and uh, I don't think he ever had to tell anybody they had cancer.

He was shaking and I seen he was real nervous and I said, you know, it's, it's okay. And he says, well, you do have messed up shoulder, but he said, when we seen the scan, we see something else.

And ah,I said, okay. You need to calm down.

Okay.

I said, you need to, it's okay. Whatever you tell me, it's going to be fine.

And he says, well, pretty sure it's cancer. And he was just shaking. And I said, it's okay. You know, I said, I'm going to be fine no matter what. I said, I believe in God. I have a, believe in every, all that stuff. So I said, I'm not worried, I'm not scared, and I'm, I'm fine.

Host: So let me ask you after you left his office, what was going through your mind?

Jean Birch: Oh dear. I thought, oh well, you know, you gotta deal with it, whatever it is.

Host: Okay So describe to me what happened a little bit after that in terms of how they finally established your diagnosis and kind of what you're experiencing. You don't have to go into details about the procedure, but just how you're experiencing it all.

Jean Birch: Well, first thing they set me up with an appointment with the oncologist, the lung doctor, and the surgeon, the same day. They were two hours apart. So, I have this very intelligent daughter. And she, came down here and she went with me to all the appointments, and Dr. Hamden was the first appointment we had.

And he said, she had two pages of questions for each doctor. And so she's like shooting them off and everything, and he goes, I've never had anybody do this before. I said, well, she does research for a living. So, this is what she does. So finally after 20 minutes he goes, what the heck do you do?

And I said, She's FBI.

So he said, okay. And thheen must have called the other doctors and warned them, Oh, get ready for her daughter. Because it was kind of funny when we walked into the other appointments, they were already looking at her.

Host: Got it. So you met all the doctors, and then obviously they started the testing process to figure out what you had, correct?

Jean Birch: Yeah.

Host: Okay. So first of all, having the daughter there was obviously very helpful for you. Is that correct?

Jean Birch: She's amazing.

Host: And how did that help you kind of deal with all the information coming to you? What did it feel like? Because you've seen three doctors

Jean Birch: In one day. But she had all the questions that some doctor would have asked, I think.

And she, knows all the vocabulary.

Host: But were you taking it all in yourself, or were you just, but some people have, when their kids ask their questions, I've noticed that the patients tune out a little bit.

Jean Birch: I did tune in a little bit because I had her, I think she was three, two and a half, maybe. She was sitting on my lap while her mom was doing her thing, so. And of course, she's a little smarty too. And she looks at Dr. Andy, you know, those things they have in the office and she's kind of looking at that thing changing and she goes, that's the human body. And he goes, yes it is. Do you know how many bones? She's only two and a half. She goes, what is there, two, hundred and six or something? don't know. She knew. He goes, why am I not surprised? This is your daughter. He said to my daughter.

Host: Right. So, when you got home after that day, what was your experience like?

Jean Birch: Well, I wasn't looking forward to chemo. heard a lot of nasty stuff about and it's all true. I didn't cry when they told me I had cancer, but I cried when I lost my hair. That was harder. You kind of wonder what's under that bald, you know, when you're bald, you kind of think, do I have bumps up there or anything, you know, but you get through it.

Host: What did you find was the best way to get support as you went through it, as you were having this chemotherapy that you found horrible?

Jean Birch: I'm an extremely lucky person. I have a million friends and they were all there. I mean, they were just everywhere, so.

Host: Yeah.

Jean Birch: And I had a lot of friends going through cancer, so I was real lucky.

Host: So again, you had a community around you, right?

Jean Birch: Maybe two or three, yeah.

Host: Yeah, that's good.

Jean Birch: I know. People are wonderful.

Host: What was the hardest part about going through the chemotherapy besides losing your hair? Was there anything specific that the

Jean Birch: The surgery was hardest.

Host: Tell me a little bit about that.

Jean Birch: I had that done up at Rush and they said five days I'd be up there. I was up there a little over two weeks. But that was still pretty good. They took out part of the lung and four ribs and 17 lymph nodes. That was a lot harder than I thought.

Host: Yeah.

Jean Birch: That lung kept collapsing My oldest daughter was up there with me and I didn't know she was even in the room because it's a teaching hospital. So there was always a bunch of students in there and I told him, no more, I'm not doing that. I don't care. He said, well, you're gonna die if you don't let us do it. And I said, I don't care. I'm not scared. And my daughter runs over there, Mom, I'm not ready.

So I thought, oh man, I'm so sorry.

Host: So you recover from surgery and then what do you do after that?

Jean Birch: Well, after the surgery, because I had radiation and chemo before, I didn't have to do anything for a while.

Host: And how did that feel to be finally done with it all?

Jean Birch: Well, you think you're done.

Host: Well, yeah.

Jean Birch: Well, felt good, yeah. it take? Two years. It felt pretty good. I was done for two years.

Host: So then, obviously, you kind of hinted at it two years later.

Jean Birch: Yeah, it's back.

Host: Something came back, right? What would that experience be like for you?

Jean Birch: Well, I didn't have to do the bad chemo. I did the immunotherapy, which is so much better on you. You know, I still have my Dr. Hamden. And then, really I'm here because of him. Because, he knew this doctor in Chicago, that, a lung doctor, and when that other doctor here said I was gonna die, he called my daughter and said I know this man and I think you need to make an appointment, I think he can fix her.

Host: Okay. You said, somebody said you were about to die.

Jean Birch: He gave me three days.

Host: What were you experiencing when that happened?

Jean Birch: They just called hospice and I was home and, you know, they were giving me drugs. And then my friends started coming and my daughters and my son was there and they, after three days they said, Mom, there's been over a hundred people in this house. We can't take anymore. I live in a little ranch house. And so, Mandy talked to Dr. Hamden, made the appointment, my girlfriend took me up there and he fixed it.

Host: So for a few days or a few weeks, you were in hospice.

Jean Birch: Yeah, well, they kicked me out.

Host: Well, because you wanted to get treatment, but I guess what was the mindset that you were at or your family were at, at that point when you were in hospice?

Jean Birch: It was hard on them. I didn't really realize because I was on drugs and I was in and out, but, I realized it was hard on them, so you don't want to do that to your family, but

 I just them to know I wasn't scared and there's a better place to go to.

Host: Oh yeah.

Jean Birch: I wasn't scared. I know quite a few people already there, so.

Thing is, when that time comes, okay, um, so to our audience, Ms. Birch mentioned she, Dr. Hamden, after getting the procedure done, in Chicago, she underwent immunotherapy. So just for the education of our audience, immunotherapy is a newer form of treatment that we've been using, which still involves getting treatments through the veins, but it, did not have the profile of side effects that traditional chemotherapy has, and it has changed a lot of how we treat people and, to be honest, how much we can expect to get improvement. As Ms. Birch mentioned, someone when the cancer first came back mentioned she only had three days. And as a group of us, as doctors, generally as oncologists, we tend to be a little bit more optimistic. You know, when we have the knowledge of what we have available to us. So in this situation, just briefly to mention, Ms. Birch went through this immunotherapy starting in 2020 or so and did that for about three years. And has now been off of treatment for a little over a year?

I'm back on treatment.

Host: Oh yeah. I don't, I apologize. I thought you were off. I, last note I copied was from when you were still off. But it's still very tolerable. Correct?

Jean Birch: Yes.

Host: Okay, so I apologize for not looking into that part.

Jean Birch: Well that's okay.

Host: So anyway, so she was off for several years, and remained cancer free and had lots of testing done to keep an eye on her, and obviously with that, we're hopefully finding that this cancer, when it comes back, comes back at a point where we can still take care of you. Right?

Jean Birch: Yeah, just a little spot in the lymph node underneath this arm, yeah.

Host: And how are you feeling right now?

Jean Birch: Fine.

Host: What advice would you have for patients when they first find out about cancer?

Jean Birch: Don't think it's a death sentence. It's not necessarily, and it gets better, I think. Every day they learn something new. My daughter sends me all this stuff that's new and when I ask Dr. Hamden about it, he goes, where'd you get that? Oh, Amanda, right?

Host: Well, it's good to have someone on your side being your team and

 unfortunately not everybody can have that, but it's good when you do.

Jean Birch: Oh yeah, I'm really blessed, yeah.

Host: Besides family, what else keeps you going in this journey?

Jean Birch: Well, my friends, I got a lot of friends, and they are great. They're like family now. You know, you work with somebody for 40 years, they just become your family. I got four sisters that are really my sisters, but I feel like I got at least 50 more, you know?

Host: That is a treasure.

Jean Birch: It is a treasure.

Host: It's a great resource.

Jean Birch: It is. Like, tomorrow, I'm meeting my high school girls, you know, I've been out of school for 52 years, so.

Host: Congratulations, yeah. Any other advice you have for people who are going through cancer?

Jean Birch: You to be alone. Open yourself up. Let people in. They're the best medicine.

Host: That's really good advice. Cancer is a scary word, so it's nice to have people you can turn to. It's nice to have the community behind your back. Some people who are going to do the research for you. Some people are just going to be there for you.

Jean Birch: Yeah. Well, a lot of my friends go to different churches.

Host: Mm-Hmm.

Jean Birch: And I found out I was on prayer list for like three or four churches. I know because somebody would I'd run into somebody at this door and they'd say what's going on with you? I've seen you on our prayer list. You know, I said, where's this one at? You know.

Host: Yeah.

Jean Birch: I said, well, it must have helped. Because here I am. You're not getting rid of me.

Host: That's a wonderful story. Again, when things are hard, look to advice from family, your friends, and to your doctor. You know? Somebody who's looking out for you and not ready to give up on you. I think that's a wonderful thing to have with Dr. Hamden.

Jean Birch: Oh yeah. He's wonderful.

Host: Yeah about all I have time, all I have questions about. Do you have anything else you want to say at all? Just what you wanted to talk about?

Jean Birch: Not really. I've met a lot of people here, haven't been coming here for several years.

Host: Mm-Hmm.

Jean Birch: That they're all great people. All the nurses, all the little Karen that does all the cleaning the chairs stuff. I mean, they're all, great, nice people. All the ladies up front.

Host: We're glad it's been a good place for you to be, so.

Jean Birch: Yeah, it is.

Host: Hopefully you'll be here for a long time.

Jean Birch: I hope I don't.

Host: Touche. Very well. Thank you so much, Ms. Birch. Again, this has been the C Word, Community, Not Cancer. And as Ms. Birch has so eloquently said, community is everything.

Jean Birch: Yeah.

Host: Thank you.

Jean Birch: You're welcome.