Dr. Ashan Basha (Host): Welcome to the C Word. This is our recurring series on Community Not Cancer, how people experience cancer from diagnosis through the current management. So today, we have a very wonderful guest named Glen who joins us today. He's a patient of Dr. Hamdan, been under the care of him for prostate cancer. Glen, welcome.

Glen: Oh, greetings.

Host: Welcome. So Glen, your story actually started long before you met, Dr. Hamdan.

Glen: It did. So, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer in 2016. I had a prostatectomy up at University of Chicago, and I've been lucky enough to have no recurrence.

Host: Until...

Glen: Well, until a year ago in September, I woke up with an incredible backache. And that was on a Friday morning. I let it go the weekend, and Monday I was still having a lot of pain. So, I had never seen a chiropractor, I decided to try a chiropractor. That went on for a couple weeks, still had the back pain. I went to my primary care physician and they took an x-ray and they found my L3 vertebrae, had a compression fracture.

Host: And from what I read, at least you can clarify this for me-- well, what I read is you could barely walk.

Glen: Yes. Yeah. It was extremely painful. So, I got a referral down across the street to see Dr. Rugino. And he said, "Hey, we got to get an MRI and a CT scan."

Host: Just to comment, Dr. Rugino was a neurosurgeon here.

Glen: Yes, yes. But he put a caveat on it. He said, "But if you start experiencing weakness in your legs," he said, "You need to go to the ER right away and have it done." And I did experience a weakness in the leg and went down to Riverside Hospital and they did the MRI and the provider came out and said, "Well, we know what your problem is." I went, "Well, fantastic. What's the news?" And the provider said, "You have a tumor where your disc is supposed to be." And that's how we started the journey.

Host: Tell me how that hit you at that moment.

Glen: I was absolutely floored. I did not expect to hear that. Just turned me upside down. Turned me upside down. And I went home to tell my family. It was 1:30 in the morning. And I looked at my son-in-law and I said, "Brian, if this is prostate cancer," I said, "I'm a dead man," because I knew it's propensity to spread to the bone. So, that was my first suspicion.

Host: Yeah. Yeah. And then, where did it go from there?

Glen: Well, once again, the provider said "If the leg weakness gets worse, you need to come back to the ER." And two nights later, I was back in the ER. My daughter was over visiting and she kept looking at me and, you know, I kept messing around with my legs. And she goes, "Dad, it's time to go the ER." So, I ended up in the ER. ER doctor called Dr. Rugino for a recommendation, and they admitted me. And that morning was Sunday morning, they did the first of two back surgeries. He wanted to decompress the spine to take that risk off the table, and then they put a spinal fusion in the next day.

Host: And that's kind of what I meant when I read that you couldn't walk. And so, that procedure established the diagnosis and confirmed that your prostate cancer was back?

Glen: Well, what it ended up being, after a week awaiting for the pathology report for what they removed, what they could remove out of my spine, and then through another MRI, they found out it was stage IV lung cancer, that it spread from the lung to the spine, gave me the compression fracture, and they also found a four-inch-long tumor in my left femur.

Host: Right, right. So now, you had the second cancer, right? And it's stage IV.

Glen: And it's stage IV. That news was devastating. And I remember, I think Dr. Hamm was his name over at the hospital saying, "Hey, this is more than likely prostate cancer." And I was like, "No, it can't be." I said, "I had my PSA checked every three months, and it was non-detectable." So, I didn't know what it was. But when it came back, stage IV lung, I was...

Host: So, that's what got you into our cancer center program?

Glen: Yes.

Host: Before you met your cancer team, what were you thinking was going to happen to you? What was your prediction for your future?

Glen: I didn't know. my brother who lives up in Michigan happened to come visit me in the hospital. And I just looked at him. I said, "Doug, I don't know what this is. I just want five years. If I can get five years, I'll be ecstatic." But it was, you know, the unknown. I'm the type of person, I would rather know the news. I don't care if it's good or bad. Because that way, I know how to go forward, and it was the uncertainty that was making me nervous, very anxious. And I really didn't know what to think at that point, honestly.

Host: Okay. And then, you met your cancer team here?

Glen: Yes. Yeah. So, I'll never forget the first meeting my son was with me, the Dr. Hamdan. And I mean, Dr. Hamdan, he's just an amazing, amazing individual. And he looked at me, he said, "Okay, well, here's what we're going to do." He said, "Hey, this is not the end of the world. We're going to do a little chemo. We're going to do a little radiation and a little immunotherapy. And that's how we're going to treat it." And I went, "Okay. "

I'm am like, "All right, I know where I'm going now." And I was very hopeful from that initial meeting. Unfortunately, it was shortly after that the back pain got so debilitating, and I was back laying in bed and not being able to get out of bed.

Host: Tell us what happened that point.

Glen: Well, okay. Came here to have a consult with Dr. Rashed. My son came up here from Colorado and took care of me while I was home after I got out of the hospital. And my second daughter came up from Florida and took care of me at home. She was here for that initial consult. And I was in so much pain that day. I broke down in Dr. Rashad's office. And, I think I remember just screaming, "You people have to help me." And Dr. Hamdan happened to be walking by the door, heard me say that. Knocks on the door. Opens the door. He says, "Hey, I just heard what was going on and I had to peek my head." And he started me on immuno that day.

And after that consult, got the immuno, started radiation treatment with Dr. Rashed for two weeks. And she was very, very concerned about the tumor in my femur and really recommended having a prophylactic nail put in there. And I was very, very resistant to do that because I just came from two back surgeries. I really didn't understand what the consequence was. So, what did I do? I went to my primary care physician, he said, "Glen, it's a really good idea." So, I had that surgery on the 19th of December. And then, two weeks later, she started treating the leg with radiation.

Host: Yeah. And from what I read, you got pretty quick improvement.

Glen: I did. I did. The radiation to the spine about after the first week, I noticed, the pain had really started to subside. But I still had issues with walking because I hadn't been walking, so I had to use a walker for all that time. And I got through the leg with radiation and then I started physical therapy at home.

Host: As you're going through that initial process with the radiation therapy, after that first immunotherapy, the nailing, and noticing the improvement, what was happening in your mind to you?

Glen: What was happening? I'll hit the rewind button. What was happening before that was the only thing I could think of was, you know, my kids, my family. And I just wanted to be able to be with them. And once I started getting better and having them around as a support team, it really got me through that first month and a half. And they're the reason I'm here.

Host: You'll need a reason to fight, right?

Glen: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. And then, they were the best ones.

Okay.

Host: I want to get past the cancer part right now because, right now, you're doing well.

Glen: I'm doing extremely well. Extremely well.

Host: Tell me where you're at with the cancer.

Glen: Right now, I haven't heard the remission word, but my last PET scan in April had come back no metastatic activity. It found some fluid in my lung. And Dr. Rashed got very concerned with that and said, "Hey, look, you need to have that addressed." She got the ball rolling. I had a thoracentesis the next day. They pulled out two quarts of fluid out of my right lung and no further plans for treatment. A little followup was the next step.

Host: so, what I'll hint at-- or not hint at-- I'll just say it. And I talked to Dr. Hamdan before I walked in to get clear picture and he's like, "You know, right now, his cancer is in remission," okay? The fluid shows basically your inflammatory autoimmune disease. So, we're good, and continue to watch.

Glen: That's excellent.

Host: Okay?

Glen: Yes.

Host: So, we're going to continue to watch. And I just want to say, we're really happy that we were able to tell you about the remission and that I was able to talk to Dr. Hamdan and get that information. And I do want to just mention though, to you and to the community, you know, remission is our happiness that we don't see the disease now.

Unfortunately, with stage IV cancers, we can't use the word cure, but we each have a goal of taking care of patients, putting them in remission and then getting the best life possible out of it. What's your thoughts on it?

Glen: Honestly, knowing that now allows me to go forward. Accepting the fact that one day it will be back, and accepting that fate now allows me to move ahead. And to live in constant fear of it is not the way I want to approach it. So, by knowing I'm in remission and, hey, treatable, not curable, allows me to move forward.

Host: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I strongly believe that, as a physician, we take care of patients with stage IV. We give them that hope, that our goal for taking care of you is for you to have the best life possible for the longest possible. And even if it doesn't mean cure, we try to push you through what you can.

Glen: Thank you. Thank you so much.

Host: So for the listeners, what remission means to us as oncologists in stage IV cancer is we don't necessarily use the word cure easily, but we use remission, meaning that we've gotten rid of the cancer to the point where we cannot detect it. When they saw the fluid, there was concern that this may be part of that process. So, that's why we got the fluid. And as I mentioned, there was, right now, no signs of cancer. So, Dr. Hamdan is holding his treatment to allow him to recover from this process, okay? So, that's the good part of things. And for right now, his cancer is in remission. And we're good, okay?

So, what I want to get is the meat and bones of why we've come here today. As I mentioned, the name of the program is the "C" Word, Community Not Cancer. Because we all need community to help us get through this. You mentioned your family and how supportive that is to you. What else has gotten you through this journey?

Glen: Well, there's an interesting story. My dentist hadn't been there since it had started. And I went in for a cleaning and told him what happened. And he looked at me, he said, "Hey, can I give you something?" I said, "Absolutely." He reaches in his pocket and he pulls out a little cross. And he looked at me, he says, "Hey, this may look small, but it's very, very powerful." And he handed it to me and I had been talking to a real good friend of mine. And Brenda says, "You know what? God is going to save you because he wants you to be there for your family." And I wasn't quite a believer until I started getting better, feeling better. And I was like, "Brenda, you're right. You're absolutely right." And that cross, it's never out of my pocket ever. I gave one to my wife. When I saw him six months later in October, I showed him the cross and I told him what I did with it. And he goes, "Well, I'm going to give you another one." He goes, "But I want you to understand that there's somebody who needs that cross. I want you to give it to them and tell them the story." And I've given a couple away.

And I'll be honest. I mean, I had no spirituality really at all until this happened. And the amount of people, as they heard what was going on with me, who told me, "I'll say a prayer for you," the power of the prayer made me a huge believer. And I tell people that all the time.

Host: So through this cancer, you've actually built you up your community?

Glen: Absolutely.

Host: The size and the closeness and all that. Correct?

Glen: Correct. Yes. Yep, Met a lot of other people who have not had similar problems, but they have problems. And the first words out of my mouth is, "I'll say a prayer for you." And I say prayers every night for a lot of people.

Host: And tell me a little bit more about what this has done in your relationship with your family.

Glen: Oh, just strengthened. Just strengthened it. It was always good, don't get me wrong. It was always very good, but the way my kids rallied behind me was just amazing.

Host: At any point during this process-- you don't have to answer if you don't want to-- did you ever feel like giving up?

Glen: I think so. Once or twice, maybe three or four times. But the thing that kept me going was I told myself I could sit in the chair and feel sorry for myself, but that's not going to do any good. It's not going to do any good. It's not going to get me through what I need to get through. And if I want to get through this, I have to get up and I have to face it every day and do what I need to do. And if my family's the most important thing, then that's what I do.

Host: Do you have any words of advice for patients who are just starting into this journey?

Glen: I guess the best advice I could give anybody is do not give in. The day you give in is the day you lose. If you want to win, you don't give in and you fight. You fight, you remain positive. You have people who will rally behind you. And just never give in. Don't give in.

Host: If I could briefly ask you about your relationships with the people in the center.

Glen: Oh, boy. I'll put it to you this way. I had a CT done at Frankfurt, and Dr. Hamdan said, " Well, is it easier for her to come here?" And I said, "Yeah, it is." But I said, "I don't want to come here." He goes, "Well, why?" And I said, "Because I love the people in Bourbonnais. Everybody here. Everybody here has been amazing, from the nurses, the entire staff, the front office, meeting Denise. Everybody here. I could just speak volumes of the quality of the care. And the quality of the people here is just amazing to me.

Host: One of the things, you know, I'll say that we kind of promote is that we're part of your community, that you don't have to leave. You know, did he ever feel like you had to go away from here to get good care?

Glen: I think the second opinion thought came into my head once. That was when the PETs were kind of questionable. But the way Dr. Hamdan meticulously and very analytically figured out what was going on and just to hear him talk and discuss and always ask me, "Does that make sense? Do you understand?" put that second opinion thought out of my head. I have complete faith in that man.

Host: So glad to hear that. And to the community listening to this, I'm not trying to talk anybody out of going where they feel they need to go to get care. What I want people to have-- no matter where they end up-- either here or to other places, or you listen to us from another country-- is you have to have faith in the people taking care of you. And so, if it takes a second opinion, get it, right?

Glen: !Yeah.

Host: But if you have that relationship where you feel you are being listened to and being explained to, then you belong where you belong.

Glen: Yeah. He's a fantastic individual and I remember having this discussion with my son, not all that long ago, a couple months ago, and he said, for Dr. Hamdan to be walking down the hallway and hear that outbursts I was having, and he goes, your paths crossed for a reason.

Host: Yeah. I'm really happy to hear here where you're at now compared to where you were just a little over a year ago. From what I've been told about you, is that at that time-- really not the people here-- but I think there was a lot of pessimism of what could happen. But now they know you as just this positive force.

Glen: That's nice to hear. I appreciate that. Yeah,

Host: I really don't have a whole lot more questions unless you have something you would like to say.

Glen: Just my great appreciation for, once again, everybody here, the staff. I'll finish it by one comment from Dr. Hamdan. We were at a point where we weren't sure what was going on, and he goes, "Hey, you got to trust me on this." I said, "You've kept me alive for--" I forget how long it had been-- six months or eight months. And I say, "I'm okay with what we're doing." And I said, "Hey, you've kept me alive this long." He goes, "I haven't kept you alive this long. God has kept you alive." And I looked at him, I said, "God did it through you."

Host: I agree with that statement very well.

Glen: Yep. I do as well.

Host: Yeah. So, I really appreciate you coming down, sharing your story. I hope that community out listening to us appreciates and get some pointers in terms of just be hopeful. Look for the person who works well with you. Find your community that gives you purpose to keep fighting and who will have your back. And that's really the magic of bad disease in some ways. We don't want you to go through this to get that. But when you get it, reach out to people. I'm very happy that you shared it with us.

Glen: Absolutely. Anytime.

Host: Thank you everyone for listening to this podcast, The "C" Word, Community Not Cancer.