Selected Podcast
Acupuncture and Infertility Treatment
Acupuncturist Nicole Gonzales and Dr. Laura Eisman explore acupuncture as a form of infertility treatment and the possible benefits.
Featured Speakers:
Dr. Laura Eisman received her doctor of medicine from Jefferson Medical College in Philadelphia before completing her residency in obstetrics and gynecology at Abington Hospital-Jefferson Health in Abington, PA.
Nicole Gonzales, LAc, FABORM | Laura Eisman, MD, RE
Nicole Gonzales, L.Ac. is a California licensed acupuncturist and herbalist. As a primary care provider, she treats patients presenting with a wide array of conditions. She specializes in fertility, women’s health, and nutrition. Nicole is a fellow of the American Board of Oriental Reproductive Medicine, holds an M.S. from the American College of Traditional Chinese Medicine in San Francisco, CA, and a B.S. in Health from the University of Nevada, Reno. Her medical training includes rotations at major hospitals, community and private clinics in both the U.S. and China.Dr. Laura Eisman received her doctor of medicine from Jefferson Medical College in Philadelphia before completing her residency in obstetrics and gynecology at Abington Hospital-Jefferson Health in Abington, PA.
Transcription:
Acupuncture and Infertility Treatment
Bill Klaproth: So you've only heard of acupuncture, but how about acupuncture and fertility? And how can acupuncture fit into your fertility journey and how might it help in other ways? And how do you find a good acupuncturist and clinic? While we're going to find out what Dr. Laura Eisman, a reproductive endocrinologist at the Reproductive Science Center of San Francisco Bay, and Nicole Gonzales, a licensed acupuncturist and herbalist at the Oldershaw Clinic in Piedmont.
This is Fertile Edge, a podcast by Reproductive Science Center of San Francisco Bay. I'm Bill Klaproth. Dr Eisman and Nicole, so good to talk to both of you. Thank you so much for your time. So Nicole, let's start with you. Can you explain to us first just so we're all on the same page what is acupuncture?
Nicole Gonzales: Acupuncture is a modality of traditional Chinese medicine that uses very tiny needles in specific parts of the body to stimulate what we refer to as chi and help balance that in the body.
Bill Klaproth: Okay. So this is going to stimulate certain parts of the body as you said. How might acupuncture fit into one's fertility journey? How might it help someone?
Nicole Gonzales: It really depends on the patient, because everybody's fertility journey is just a little bit different from patient to patient, but maybe we're helping to help outcomes of fertility, maybe we're helping regulate a cycle. I mean, besides maybe like the fertility piece of it, we're always helping reduce stress, trying to reduce inflammation. And really with acupuncturists, we kind of have a lot of time to also talk about other things that may be part of a fertility journey, like supplements or nutrition, and so we can spend a lot of time going over that with the patient.
Bill Klaproth: Nicole, are there other benefits? Does it help reduce stress? Does it put somebody in a better frame of mind? Other physical benefits as well that may help someone with their fertility journey or even during pregnancy?
Nicole Gonzales: Yes. So pregnancy is a whole 'nother...
Bill Klaproth: whole 'nother topic.
Nicole Gonzales: Yeah, exactly. There's a lot more symptoms that come with that sometimes. But it can help with always reducing stress. I mean, there are the three specific points that I can think of just right off the top of my head that I do on every single patient that walks through this door. Everybody needs help with stress reduction. And then, we can also help with pain. So even if you're coming in in your fertility journey and we're focusing on maybe egg quality or something, and you have a little cold or you hurt your knee, we can always help with pain and helping your immune system maybe battle a small little infection that you have going on.
Bill Klaproth: Yeah, so the benefits are varied and it certainly sounds like it. And Dr. Eisman, you're a reproductive endocrinologist. From your point of view then as a physician, how can acupuncture help your infertility patients?
Dr. Laura Eisman: So as Nicole talked a bit about, we know it has the ability to decrease stress and promote relaxation. And since it's generally very safe and without side effects, it can be a great adjunct to infertility treatment. And for most of our patients, that journey is a very emotional journey with infertility treatment. And if so, if acupuncture can help by providing some stress relief in this process, it's very valuable for our patients.
There certainly is also benefit from that team approach. So we as physicians can work closely with your acupuncturist to individualize and optimize treatment. Whether acupuncture can actually improve IVF success rates like pregnancy and live birth rates is somewhat controversial. Some studies have shown that acupuncture, especially around the time of an embryo transfer, does increase pregnancy and live birth rates. But others haven't shown that same effect.
It's a really difficult thing to study for a lot of reasons. There are many different styles and techniques. It's difficult to get an appropriate control group. Also difficult to do double blind studies in this topic, in this field. And since it's not a simple treatment, like just taking a pill, the experience of it can also affect the outcome. While there isn't as clear evidence in the literature in terms of IVF outcomes, we still do believe it has the potential to help many of our patients.
Bill Klaproth: Well, what I think you said there is really important for a woman struggling to get pregnant. The potential is there for acupuncture to positively affect the outcome. So it certainly is worth the try. Is that right?
Dr. Laura Eisman: Yeah, at least to give a try if it's available and convenient for you and you have the opportunity to, I think it is a good thing to try. Yes.
Bill Klaproth: So, Nicole, let me ask you then what should you look for in an acupuncture clinic?
Nicole Gonzales: I think probably something with what Dr. Eisman said, convenience is going to be important. You want to make sure that you're not driving really far to an acupuncture visit. You want somewhere that's close. Because once you start a fertility journey, there could be a potential for a lot of appointments.
And then you also want to make sure if it is fertility that you're coming to see acupuncture for, that maybe you're looking at the credentials of the acupuncturist. An acupuncturist usually has to go and become a licensed acupuncturist. And then there's another what they refer to as like a fellowship of fertility and their name is ABORM, and it's the American Board of Oriental Reproductive Medicine. And then if that acupuncturist has that credential, then you know that they have a specialization in fertility.
Bill Klaproth: Okay. So look for a credentialed acupuncturist. That makes sense. And obviously, somebody that's close to you also would be a benefit as well. Then how often do you recommend someone see an acupuncturist?
Nicole Gonzales: From patient to patient, it's going to depend on a lot of different variables, but mainly for like Dr. Eisman had said, the studies that had said that things have been effective with acupuncture, it's usually 10 to 12 visits before maybe a retrieval or usually getting a body ready for conception. And then, also right after a transfer is also a very important time.
Bill Klaproth: Yeah, that's a really good information. So let me wrap with asking you each the same question. Dr. Eisman, I'll start with you. Is there anything else you want to add about acupuncture and fertility?
Dr. Laura Eisman: Yeah, I think it's a good topic to broach with your physician to see if it might be something that would help you in your specific journey. Then we can refer you to an acupuncturist nearby one that we might work with well, and you have the opportunity to then speak with them and see if it might be a good fit.
Bill Klaproth: Yeah, really good thought about checking with your physician and then getting a referral from your physician. And Nicole, as we wrap up, thank you both for your time, is there anything you'd like to add about acupuncture and fertility?
Nicole Gonzales: Yeah. If anybody is curious or has any questions, feel free to reach out. I'm Nicole Gonzales at the Oldershaw Clinic, and I would be happy to help you with any questions that you have.
Bill Klaproth: Very good. Dr. Eisman and Nicole, thank you so much for your time today. We appreciate it.
Nicole Gonzales: Thank you.
Dr. Laura Eisman: Thank you so much.
Bill Klaproth: And once again, that's Dr. Laura Eisman and Nicole Gonzales. And for more information about acupuncture and fertility, please visit eastbayfertilityacupuncture.com. That's eastbayfertilityacupuncture.com. And if you've found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and check out the full podcast library for topics of interest to you. This is Fertile Edge by Reproductive Science Center of San Francisco Bay. I'm Bill Klaproth. Thanks for listening.
Acupuncture and Infertility Treatment
Bill Klaproth: So you've only heard of acupuncture, but how about acupuncture and fertility? And how can acupuncture fit into your fertility journey and how might it help in other ways? And how do you find a good acupuncturist and clinic? While we're going to find out what Dr. Laura Eisman, a reproductive endocrinologist at the Reproductive Science Center of San Francisco Bay, and Nicole Gonzales, a licensed acupuncturist and herbalist at the Oldershaw Clinic in Piedmont.
This is Fertile Edge, a podcast by Reproductive Science Center of San Francisco Bay. I'm Bill Klaproth. Dr Eisman and Nicole, so good to talk to both of you. Thank you so much for your time. So Nicole, let's start with you. Can you explain to us first just so we're all on the same page what is acupuncture?
Nicole Gonzales: Acupuncture is a modality of traditional Chinese medicine that uses very tiny needles in specific parts of the body to stimulate what we refer to as chi and help balance that in the body.
Bill Klaproth: Okay. So this is going to stimulate certain parts of the body as you said. How might acupuncture fit into one's fertility journey? How might it help someone?
Nicole Gonzales: It really depends on the patient, because everybody's fertility journey is just a little bit different from patient to patient, but maybe we're helping to help outcomes of fertility, maybe we're helping regulate a cycle. I mean, besides maybe like the fertility piece of it, we're always helping reduce stress, trying to reduce inflammation. And really with acupuncturists, we kind of have a lot of time to also talk about other things that may be part of a fertility journey, like supplements or nutrition, and so we can spend a lot of time going over that with the patient.
Bill Klaproth: Nicole, are there other benefits? Does it help reduce stress? Does it put somebody in a better frame of mind? Other physical benefits as well that may help someone with their fertility journey or even during pregnancy?
Nicole Gonzales: Yes. So pregnancy is a whole 'nother...
Bill Klaproth: whole 'nother topic.
Nicole Gonzales: Yeah, exactly. There's a lot more symptoms that come with that sometimes. But it can help with always reducing stress. I mean, there are the three specific points that I can think of just right off the top of my head that I do on every single patient that walks through this door. Everybody needs help with stress reduction. And then, we can also help with pain. So even if you're coming in in your fertility journey and we're focusing on maybe egg quality or something, and you have a little cold or you hurt your knee, we can always help with pain and helping your immune system maybe battle a small little infection that you have going on.
Bill Klaproth: Yeah, so the benefits are varied and it certainly sounds like it. And Dr. Eisman, you're a reproductive endocrinologist. From your point of view then as a physician, how can acupuncture help your infertility patients?
Dr. Laura Eisman: So as Nicole talked a bit about, we know it has the ability to decrease stress and promote relaxation. And since it's generally very safe and without side effects, it can be a great adjunct to infertility treatment. And for most of our patients, that journey is a very emotional journey with infertility treatment. And if so, if acupuncture can help by providing some stress relief in this process, it's very valuable for our patients.
There certainly is also benefit from that team approach. So we as physicians can work closely with your acupuncturist to individualize and optimize treatment. Whether acupuncture can actually improve IVF success rates like pregnancy and live birth rates is somewhat controversial. Some studies have shown that acupuncture, especially around the time of an embryo transfer, does increase pregnancy and live birth rates. But others haven't shown that same effect.
It's a really difficult thing to study for a lot of reasons. There are many different styles and techniques. It's difficult to get an appropriate control group. Also difficult to do double blind studies in this topic, in this field. And since it's not a simple treatment, like just taking a pill, the experience of it can also affect the outcome. While there isn't as clear evidence in the literature in terms of IVF outcomes, we still do believe it has the potential to help many of our patients.
Bill Klaproth: Well, what I think you said there is really important for a woman struggling to get pregnant. The potential is there for acupuncture to positively affect the outcome. So it certainly is worth the try. Is that right?
Dr. Laura Eisman: Yeah, at least to give a try if it's available and convenient for you and you have the opportunity to, I think it is a good thing to try. Yes.
Bill Klaproth: So, Nicole, let me ask you then what should you look for in an acupuncture clinic?
Nicole Gonzales: I think probably something with what Dr. Eisman said, convenience is going to be important. You want to make sure that you're not driving really far to an acupuncture visit. You want somewhere that's close. Because once you start a fertility journey, there could be a potential for a lot of appointments.
And then you also want to make sure if it is fertility that you're coming to see acupuncture for, that maybe you're looking at the credentials of the acupuncturist. An acupuncturist usually has to go and become a licensed acupuncturist. And then there's another what they refer to as like a fellowship of fertility and their name is ABORM, and it's the American Board of Oriental Reproductive Medicine. And then if that acupuncturist has that credential, then you know that they have a specialization in fertility.
Bill Klaproth: Okay. So look for a credentialed acupuncturist. That makes sense. And obviously, somebody that's close to you also would be a benefit as well. Then how often do you recommend someone see an acupuncturist?
Nicole Gonzales: From patient to patient, it's going to depend on a lot of different variables, but mainly for like Dr. Eisman had said, the studies that had said that things have been effective with acupuncture, it's usually 10 to 12 visits before maybe a retrieval or usually getting a body ready for conception. And then, also right after a transfer is also a very important time.
Bill Klaproth: Yeah, that's a really good information. So let me wrap with asking you each the same question. Dr. Eisman, I'll start with you. Is there anything else you want to add about acupuncture and fertility?
Dr. Laura Eisman: Yeah, I think it's a good topic to broach with your physician to see if it might be something that would help you in your specific journey. Then we can refer you to an acupuncturist nearby one that we might work with well, and you have the opportunity to then speak with them and see if it might be a good fit.
Bill Klaproth: Yeah, really good thought about checking with your physician and then getting a referral from your physician. And Nicole, as we wrap up, thank you both for your time, is there anything you'd like to add about acupuncture and fertility?
Nicole Gonzales: Yeah. If anybody is curious or has any questions, feel free to reach out. I'm Nicole Gonzales at the Oldershaw Clinic, and I would be happy to help you with any questions that you have.
Bill Klaproth: Very good. Dr. Eisman and Nicole, thank you so much for your time today. We appreciate it.
Nicole Gonzales: Thank you.
Dr. Laura Eisman: Thank you so much.
Bill Klaproth: And once again, that's Dr. Laura Eisman and Nicole Gonzales. And for more information about acupuncture and fertility, please visit eastbayfertilityacupuncture.com. That's eastbayfertilityacupuncture.com. And if you've found this podcast helpful, please share it on your social channels and check out the full podcast library for topics of interest to you. This is Fertile Edge by Reproductive Science Center of San Francisco Bay. I'm Bill Klaproth. Thanks for listening.